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#46289 - 09/13/17 02:19 PM Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup?
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
With the current iPhones>Touch ID, several different fingers, even from different people can be used.

1. In that regard, has Apple yet released the data re how many faces may be "memorized"?
2. Will the iPhone X still require a passcode when starting up? (I should think so, but just don’t know.)

Not a question per-se, but I wonder if identical twins could bypass the security gates...
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27" i7 iMac (10.12.6), iPhone 5 (iOS 10.3.3)

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#46290 - 09/13/17 03:56 PM Re: Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup? [Re: Pendragon]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Good question...do identical twins have identical fingerprints?

I'll guess that they don't.

In my experience, they don't have identical faces, but the differences may be too subtle for facial ID.
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#46291 - 09/13/17 04:33 PM Re: Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup? [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Apple cites 1 in a million accuracy and given the occurrence of identical (monozygotic) twins is 3 in a thousand it would appear Apple’s facial recognition is more than up to that challenge.
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#46292 - 09/13/17 04:42 PM Re: Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Apple cites 1 in a million accuracy and given the occurrence of identical (monozygotic) twins is 3 in a thousand it would appear Apple’s facial recognition is more than up to that challenge.

I'll wait for user reports, of which I'm certain there'll be many, to find out the correct answer.
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#46297 - 09/14/17 01:05 AM Re: Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup? [Re: Pendragon]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
And issues of privacy/security immediately arise ... such as "authorities" just having to aim your own device at you to unlock/access it without a warrant.
It just gets better and better.
Once again, Luddites rejoice in the misfortune of the burdened. tongue smirk

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#46300 - 09/14/17 04:34 AM Re: Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup? [Re: grelber]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
I'm presuming/hoping/guessing that there will be an initial PW required upon a (re)start that will preclude the "authorities" from aiming the Phone X at the owner and opening it. For sure, I'll be surprised if that's not the case.

Alas, being wrong & surprised are not exactly new experiences for me...
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27" i7 iMac (10.12.6), iPhone 5 (iOS 10.3.3)

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#46302 - 09/14/17 07:06 AM Re: Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup? [Re: grelber]
pbGuy Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: grelber
... "authorities" just having to aim your own device at you to unlock/access it without a warrant. ...


When FaceID was demoed by Craig Federighi, his face had to be looking at the screen (he did not have to directly look straight at the screen) and his eyes had to be opened for FaceID to recognize his stored, FaceID mapping and open the iPhone X. (FaceID setup is locally stored, facial mapping by the TrueDepth camera which projects & analyzes 30,000 invisible dots to create a precise depth map of the owner's face.) ...In the demo Federighi looked away from the screen and FaceID did not activate; the iPhone X remained at the Lock Screen.

Originally Posted By: Pendragon
...presuming... there will be an initial PW required upon a (re)start ...
...Yes, FaceID requires an initial PW after restart, as we're used to seeing with TouchID. ...Federighi inadvertently got to demo this, as his first attempt at demoing FaceID was blocked by the PW entry screen. He cooly picked up the backup iPhone X and FaceID activated as he expected. [Here's a link to David Pogue's report about what actually happened - he verifies FaceID did not fail - Pogue's Report ]

Additionally, Federighi showed that Apple tested FaceID using professionally made, facial masks, and FaceID's mapping is precise enough to discern the difference between a mask of the owner and the owner's stored, facial map.

I think it follows that in a situation where an iPhone X's owner does not want to open it for authorities, the owner could simply keep eyes closed. ...If there was forcible effort holding the owner's eyes open, I surmise facial recognition would be negated since the TrueDepth (front) camera's view would not recognize the facial contortions as well as the added, physical elements (in the view) holding the owner's eyes open as all these elements would not match the owner's stored, facial mapping.

It will be interesting when real world tests take place, especially with identical twins, as the tests will answer these questions about spoofing. But, I think these tests will likely verify FaceID is a technical step forward in security for opening the iPhone X.
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#46304 - 09/14/17 09:26 AM Re: Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup? [Re: grelber]
Ira L Online


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: grelber
And issues of privacy/security immediately arise ... such as "authorities" just having to aim your own device at you to unlock/access it without a warrant.
It just gets better and better.
Once again, Luddites rejoice in the misfortune of the burdened. tongue smirk


I have read that if the Power/Wake button is pushed 5 time in succession that a passcode becomes mandatory to unlock the phone. Just anticipate the authorities grabbing your phone and start pushing the button! wink

Also, if as stated above, 30,000 facial points are mapped, just how identical are identical twins? Perhaps to the human eye they appear the same, but are they truly?
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#46307 - 09/14/17 10:51 AM Re: Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup? [Re: Ira L]
pbGuy Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: Ira L
... I have read that if the Power/Wake button is pushed 5 time in succession that a passcode becomes mandatory to unlock the phone....

FaceID requires only 2 failed attempts to require the Passcode.

Federighi addressed some mitigations, based upon an inquiry from developer Keith Krimbel (see MacRumors), regarding a thief taking an iPhone X and pointing it at the owner. Federighi replied that if one has been gripping (he did use the word "grip") the buttons on both sides of the X, prior to it leaving the hand, this temporarily disables FaceID.

Another question to Federighi was about wearing sunglasses. He responded that as long as the sunglasses allow enough IR light that FaceID can see the eyes (even when the glass becomes opaque), FaceID will accurately recognize the owner. He was not implying all sunglasses will be Ok; just most.

Here's a link to MacRumor's How FaceID Biometrics Work

...So, there are nuances about FaceID that will soon be better understood by the wider public. While unfortunately, the general, news media is not seeking accurate details from either Apple or reputable, tech reporters who were at the  presentation (like, iMore & David Poque and got accurate updates) before reporting, and as result, the media is inaccurately commenting on the FaceID based upon fallacious bias and egregious questions.


Edited by pbGuy (09/15/17 07:25 AM)
Edit Reason: Edited my comment
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#46309 - 09/14/17 11:54 AM Re: Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup? [Re: pbGuy]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
And here is a link to Federighi's response to MacRumors query about face recognition and sunglasses. It appears that by every measure Apple's biometric facial recognition is over 3,000 times more discriminating than fingerprint recognition. That does not mean it cannot be broken but it is a LOT harder to break than the predecessor fingerprint recognition.
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#46310 - 09/14/17 01:09 PM Re: Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup? [Re: Ira L]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Ira L
Also, if as stated above, 30,000 facial points are mapped, just how identical are identical twins? Perhaps to the human eye they appear the same, but are they truly?

The few pairs of identical twins whom I've know could be separated by eye.
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#46352 - Yesterday at 07:29 AM Re: Face Recognition & iPhone X Startup? [Re: pbGuy]
pbGuy Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: pbGuy
Originally Posted By: Ira L
...read that if the Power/Wake button is pushed 5 time in succession that a passcode becomes mandatory to unlock the phone

FaceID requires only 2 failed attempts to require the Passcode.


While MacRumors was a source of this (incorrect) detail within the Biometrics Report, Apple (as well as Federighi) have confirmed 5 failed attempts as the correct number.

Here's Apple's link FaceID requires 5 failed attempts to require Passcode

I stand corrected.
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