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#45843 - 07/27/17 07:20 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
PUBLIC BEAT 3 — FOLLOW UP

  • All but one of my open issues with High Sierra itself appear to have been fixed in Public Beta 3, even the very minor display glitch in Disk Utility! The remaining issue is Time Machine support for APFS formatted backup drives. (Given the APFS feature set, that might evolve into a functionally brand new Time Machine structure.)
    cool
  • Interestingly an HTML rendering issue in Safari Technology Preview that was fixed several months ago has resurrected itself, but it is not present in Safari 11
    mad
  • My only major issue at this point is with SoftRAID. Apple changed a critical API they used so now they have to engineer a way around that API. (Nothing against SoftRAID, it performed beautifully in El Capitan and after an update it worked equally well in Sierra, but I wish Apple would add RAID 5 to their RAID Assistant in Disk Utility.)
    tongue
  • Finally I am curious to see how (and when) DiskWarrior, TechTool Pro, Drive Genius, et. al. are going to deal with APFS. (I suspect that is going to take a while, perhaps a good long while.)
    confused
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#45901 - 08/02/17 01:05 AM Re: High Sierra Beta on RAID 0 Macbook pro 2012 [Re: joemikeb]
khaidir77 Offline


Registered: 08/02/17
hie there..does anyone here already tried or installed High Sierra Beta on RAID 0 Macbook pro ??

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#45909 - 08/02/17 03:03 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
khaidir77 Offline


Registered: 08/02/17
how to do raid in High Sierra Beta?

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#45911 - 08/02/17 05:21 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: khaidir77]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: khaidir77
how to do raid in High Sierra Beta?

Assuming you have the correct hardware, ideally two or more matching internal drives or in an external RAID enclosure go to Disk Utility > File > RAID Assistant and select the drives to be used in the array and choose RAID 1, RAID 0, or JBOD. After that the array is accessed the same way as any volume.

NOTE: JBOD is technically not a RAID configuration, it is a concatenation of two or more drives into a single volume.
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#45918 - 08/03/17 02:02 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
AAAARRRRGGGGHHH!

Last night my Late 2012 Mac mini started acting out: lots of pinwheels, momentary hangs, sluggishness followed by sudden bursts of high speed catching up, etc.. I went through the normal troubleshooting, shut down unnecessary apps, ran diagnostics, checked the log files and found no apparent reason.

Oh well there is always the sovereign remedy for inexplicable glitches — Reboot. The progress bar seemed to progress slowly until it got to about the 90% level and went into super slow motion. After about five minutes I gave up and did a full shut down followed by a restart. Once again at about the 90% level the progress bar hung again. This time I decided to wait it out.

After ten or fifteen minutes the progress bar finally completed but still the boot did not complete. Nine hours later, it still had not completed. Time for a reinstall, so I created bootable High Sierra reinstall disk (an adventure in and of itself). It booted flawlessly and I launched the High Sierra installer and attempted to reinstall on the internal SSD formatted APFS (encrypted). Every disk was there including another volume formatted APFS (encrypted) and a volume formatted Mac OS Extended (Journaled, Encrypted) but the internal SSD remains among the missing. Disk Utility, TechTool Pro, Drive Genius, About this Mac, Startup Drive, nothing is seeing the internal SSD so there is no way to either repair the volume structure or reinstall High Sierra!

It occured to me that the system may not see it because it is formatted APFS (Encrypted) but there is a rotating rust Drive with an APFS (encrypted) partition and the system not only sees it but requests the password to access it and utilities that see drives at the hardware level do not “see” the SSD, so I cannot even attempt any kid of volume repair.

A few days ago hardware level tests, including S.M.A.R.T., I/O speed tests, etc. gave the drive a clean bill of health. I have had rotating rust drives fail in the past, but never as suddenly and as profoundly as this. frown mad

I had hoped to keep this Mac mini going until Apple came up with a newer version, but that decision may have been taken out of my hands. I can get by running on external drives for a while, but I guess I am officially in the market for a new Mac. Anyone out there with experience running a MacBook or MacBook Pro closed lid with an external monitor, keyboard, and trackpad? confused
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#45920 - 08/03/17 09:37 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Anyone out there with experience running a MacBook or MacBook Pro closed lid with an external monitor, keyboard, and trackpad? confused

The best I can do is direct you to an app that will prevent your laptop from sleeping while its lid is closed.

NoSleep works fine for me, but its got its detractors on MacUpdate.

If you intend to use your laptop on the road as well as at home, I recommend v 1.3.0, which is available from two sources here.
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#45921 - 08/04/17 04:39 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Last night my Late 2012 Mac mini started acting out: lots of pinwheels, momentary hangs, sluggishness followed by sudden bursts of high speed catching up, etc..

99% of the time that is a failing hard drive.
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#45924 - 08/04/17 07:44 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: Virtual1]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
99% of the time that is a failing hard drive.

That was my initial take but since then it has exhibited similar problems booting from an external drive, so I am afraid it is the logic board. The SSD keeps appearing and disappearing. It appears to work until the mini gets thoroughly warmed up and then... I had hoped it was the SSD so I could repurpose the mini to replace a much older and slower mini I use as a server, but if it is the logic board that is a no go option. In the meantime I just ordered a 13” MacBook Pro from Small Dog that I can use close cover with my 27” Thunderbolt monitor and full size wireless keyboard and trackpad. Until it arrives I still have my 12” iPad Pro that I am using now.
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#45925 - 08/04/17 08:09 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
Can you say "cold solder joint"?
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#45943 - 08/08/17 04:30 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
99% of the time that is a failing hard drive.

That was my initial take but since then it has exhibited similar problems booting from an external drive,

Any disk access to a failing drive can cause a stall or a complete hang. Disk I/O is a "blocking call" in the kernel, regardless of whether it's the boot volume or any other attached storage. So during startup off a good drive, a failing drive that the OS tries to access to query or to mount can cause problems. I've also seen an optical drive do the same thing, even when no disc was present. (I've also seen multiple computers that could not start off any internal or external drive until I unplugged the failed optical drive)

I'm not saying that's what it is, I'm just saying that's still an option you still need to be considering.
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#45948 - 08/08/17 01:38 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: Virtual1]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
Any disk access to a failing drive can cause a stall or a complete hang. Disk I/O is a "blocking call" in the kernel, regardless of whether it's the boot volume or any other attached storage. So during startup off a good drive, a failing drive that the OS tries to access to query or to mount can cause problems. I've also seen an optical drive do the same thing, even when no disc was present. (I've also seen multiple computers that could not start off any internal or external drive until I unplugged the failed optical drive)

Thanks for the additional input. I still have hopes of recovering the system at least for use as a file/print/Time Machine server. From your description I realize the failure could be either of the internal drives, the SSD or HD.

My first task will be to retrieve the 600 GB of tunes, audiobooks, and photos off of the HD. Thanks to iCloud all of that is recoverable, but it would be a lot faster if I could extract it directly. The same thing is true of the Desktop and Documents folders as well as Keychain, Evernote, Safari, Mail, etc.. I also have a viable Time Machine backup, but because of everything I have been doing on the machine, I will probably reinstall all of the apps etc. from scratch — It has been years since I did that so this is a good excuse to get really clean.
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#45987 - 08/15/17 03:09 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
More Beta updates

I have been setting up the new 13" MacBook Pro. I debated not installing the High Sierra beta, but quickly realize I had become accustomed to many of the features in it and really missed them so as soon as I get a couple of USB C adaptors when the Apple Store opens it is going to become a High Sierra testbed. By-the-way I really like the touch bar and because of it and fingerprint recognition having Wallet on the MBP. cool My only MBP complaint so far is that I keep trying to move things around on the MBP by touching the screen the way I do on iOS devices.

In the meantime, I have managed a trial three way reconciliation between my Mac mini, its SSD, and High Sierra. However, it is still a trial and required a reinstallation of the High Sierra beta -- which was flakey at best with several unexpected reboots during the reinstallation and other funny stuff. Whether it is hardware or software related is open for discussion and at best reliability is questionable. confused
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#46054 - 08/23/17 08:22 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
GETTING PREPARED FOR HIGH SIERRA

Almost everything that works in Sierra will work in High Sierra but note that is ALMOST everything. There are exceptions:
  1. 32 bit applications will not run period, end of discussion! (The High Sierra installer may remove some of them along with other extensions, plug-ins, etc. to an appropriately named folder on the desktop)
  2. Gatekeeper may require you to authorize printer drivers and other kernel extensions (kext) from legacy developers. (I ran into that with the driver for my 6 year old Canon PIXMA ip4500)
    • NOTE: I understand and applaud Apple's drive to keep MacOS as secure as possible which necessarily includes doing as much as possible to protect against vulnerabiities in third party software, but in the case of drivers an inevitable but unintended side effect can be forcing users to newer hardware externals whose drivers are actively supported.
    • It means Apple has to be vigilant about offerings in the App Store to be sure they not only meet standards and are actively supported
    • It behooves users to be vigilant about their software as well. (After a nuke and pave install of High Sierra rather than recovering all the apps from my Time Machine backup, I elected to reinstall them from scratch. As a result I have roughly half as many apps and I have yet to miss one of those I eliminated.
  3. I said almost all, but there are still apps that are being broken, or fixed, with every High Sierra beta update.
    • Many (most?) active developers are working with Apple to make fixes as quickly as possible but...
    • the App Store approval process is stringent and takes time so even though the developer has a "fix" it may take time to get it on the App Store.
    • Some "fixes" will work, but due to the stringent App Store standards such as (particularly?) sandboxing will not be approved for App Store release.
    • Because of sandboxing some App Store releases will have fewer features than the non-App Store version of the same product.
  4. In summary when preparing for High Sierra like all MacOS upgrades…
    • Be sure all of your third party software is up to date
  5. CONSIDER: For the last few years I had fallen into the pattern of simply running the updates and upgrades and I had not performed a clean (a.k.a. nuke and pave) upgrade in years. This time circumstances (ie. getting rid of an unwanted/undeletable user account) forced me into it and to be honest I am glad I was forced into it.
  6. My new upgrade resolution is:
    • Do a Nuke and Pave at least every other upgrade with a re-install of all the apps and drivers.
    • Don't worry about combo updaters, instead simply boot from the Recovery Drive and perform an OS reinstall from there.
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#46060 - 08/23/17 09:31 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
32 bit applications will not run period, end of discussion! (The High Sierra installer may remove some of them along with other extensions, plug-ins, etc. to an appropriately named folder on the desktop)

Can you document that?

The latest I've been able to find from Apple is

Originally Posted By: Apple
App Store
64-bit Requirement for Mac Apps
June 28, 2017
At WWDC 2017, we announced new apps submitted to the Mac App Store must support 64-bit starting January 2018, and Mac app updates and existing apps must support 64-bit starting June 2018. If you distribute your apps outside the Mac App Store, we highly recommend distributing 64-bit binaries to make sure your users can continue to run your apps on future versions of macOS. macOS High Sierra will be the last macOS release to support 32-bit apps without compromise. (Emphasis added)
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#46063 - 08/23/17 10:56 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I can only document my experience and I had one app removed with the pubic beta 1 — but it must be remembered that was a beta and things can and do change between the beta and the release.
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#46065 - 08/23/17 03:58 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'm going to have to start riding a few developers! frown
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#46070 - 08/24/17 05:32 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
I'm going to have to start riding a few developers! frown
You are assuming those apps are still supported which may be a big assumption.
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#46071 - 08/24/17 05:42 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
I'm going to have to start riding a few developers! frown

You are assuming those apps are still supported which may be a big assumption.

I'm making no such assumption. By "riding", I meant "begging" in those instaces in which it's necessary.
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#46081 - 08/25/17 08:41 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
I'm going to have to start riding a few developers! frown

You are assuming those apps are still supported which may be a big assumption.

I'm making no such assumption. By "riding", I meant "begging" in those instances in which it's necessary.

Well, it certainly pays to try!

Until I advised him that it was 32 bit only, the first developer I contacted thought his app was either 32 or 64 bit. (He didn't realize that it included one framework that forced it to run at 32 bit only.)

He's already updated his app. cool

Oh, and a second developer intends to update his app, so two out of three of my critical apps are now safe. laugh

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#46276 - 09/13/17 03:14 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
No more betas: Apple's macOS High Sierra coming Sept. 25, watchOS 4 & tvOS 11 due Sept. 19 As is my custom, I will wait until there are one or two updates before installing it. I'm most concerned about High Sierra's compatibility with MS Office 2008. It works in Sierra but is a bit wonky. Despite my dislike for MS, I may bite the bullet and subscribe to Office 2016 (or whatever version is the latest). I have used substitutes for MS Word but I still prefer Word. And, my wife is used to using MS Entourage (now defunct, but Outlook replaces it). I'm perfectly capable of learning a new email client but she balks.
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Jon

OS 10.12.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, Office 2008, Nikon LS 8000 scanner

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#46277 - 09/13/17 03:30 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Although I'll probably install High Sierra immediately, I intend to run it in HFS+ mode for a while to give the bad guys an opportunity to look for vulnerabilities in APFS.

Office 2016 is the latest version, and it's available as a one-time buy, but I don't know if the next version will be available other than by subscription, so I intend to buy it to replace my 32 bit 2011.
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#46287 - 09/13/17 08:57 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I am currently up to the High Sierra Developer Gold Master running on APFS (encrypted) and at this point the only issue that has not been solved is SoftRAID compatibility.
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#46466 - 09/28/17 01:28 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I've deleted the original contents of this post, because they dealt with numerous glitches that arose when I installed High Sierra...HFS+.

I'm going to reinstall APFS...and PRAY!

Aaargh!!!


Edited by artie505 (09/28/17 03:12 AM)
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#46474 - 09/28/17 12:43 PM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
I've deleted the original contents of this post, because they dealt with numerous glitches that arose when I installed High Sierra...HFS+.

I'm going to reinstall APFS...and PRAY!

🤞

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#46479 - 09/29/17 12:39 AM Re: High Sierra Beta [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
🤞

(Dunno why your 250% tags don't work in "Quote" format.)

OK... No luck! frown

Here's a step by step of what I did...
  1. I first tried a clean install.
  2. Cloned boot volume to external. (Both drives are SSDs.)
  3. Erased boot volume.
  4. D/l'ed High Sierra to empty partition on external...HFS+ as expected.
  5. Shut down after Installer had launched but before going any further.
  6. Restarted in boot volume clone.
  7. Cloned product of steps 4 & 5 to previously erased boot volume...HFS+ as expected.
  8. Completed installation.
  9. Aaargh!!!
  10. Erased HS installation.
  11. Cloned step 1 clone back to its original home.
  12. Upgraded with HS installer...APFS as expected.
  13. Aaargh!!!
  14. Re-d/l'ed HS from App Store.
  15. Clean install.
  16. Aaargh!!!
(I was flustered, and I trashed my notes along with High Sierra; I hope I'm not omitting anything important.)

My MAJOR problem with HS was with Keychain Access...
  • My "Changed" login password wasn't perpetuated.
  • I reinstated it, and it worked, but it didn't survive either shut down or simple restart.
  • My "Local Items" weren't perpetuated.
  • Re-added "Local Items" sometimes survived shut down or simple restart...sometimes didn't.
  • Aaargh!!!
  • Filed bug report with Apple.
As you might expect, I'm back in Sierra.

Aftermath: After I erased the step 12 HS installation I wanted to reformat the volume as HFS+ but couldn't do so from a local volume, so I booted into Recovery Drive but got an endless SBOD when I tried to get to Disk Utility, and I wound up erasing and reinstalling my entire internal drive. mad
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