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#46184 - 09/05/17 09:37 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
As I've already pointed out, since you're going to put your note inside an ENCRYPTED disk image (to which only you know the complicated password), it won't matter who's got access to your computer.

The note, itself, will NOT be on your desktop; it will be inaccessible.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#46185 - 09/05/17 10:32 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: artie505]
dianne Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
artie505,

Two things:
  • I am unable to open a .sparseimage in iCloud.
  • I can open a password protected .pdf file.
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dianne • moderator

Back up everything you can't afford to lose – documents, mail, movies, music, photos, and other data and settings.

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#46186 - 09/05/17 11:39 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: dianne]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Diane, thanks, how does up put a pdf file into icloud.com

Can one put a word document there?

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#46190 - 09/06/17 12:15 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: dianne]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dianne
artie505,

Two things:
  • I am unable to open a .sparseimage in iCloud.
  • I can open a password protected .pdf file.

Thanks for that dianne; it may be helpful to kevs, but it didn't relate to anything I've posted.

My suggestion was that kevs create an encrypted, simple, not sparse, disk image that would be stored on his laptop.

I'm not even certain that his obsession with iCloud is realistic...in the sense that I think he wants to create something that would be stored in the cloud but would NOT also be on his laptop, i.e. he wants to treat the cloud as if it were an external drive. Is that possible?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#46191 - 09/06/17 05:36 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
I'm not even certain that his obsession with iCloud is realistic…in the sense that I think he wants to create something that would be stored in the cloud but would NOT also be on his laptop, i.e. he wants to treat the cloud as if it were an external drive. Is that possible?

I have a number of files on my iCloud Drive that were
  • saved to iCloud from an iOS or MacOS app
  • moved or copied to iCloud from a drive on my Mac
  • are transparently synched to iCloud either from iOS or MacOS
  • exist only on iCloud but are opened and changed from iOS or MacOS apps
  • my Desktop, Documents folder, iTunes, photos, keychain, contacts, are all primarily resident on iCloud
  • in High Sierra I can open .dmg files stored on the iCloud Drive.
Originally Posted By: keys
Can one put a word document there?
Yes.

In other words iCloud is effectively an external drive connected to my Mac, iPad, and iPhone effectively the same as shared drives or folders on my local server.
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#46192 - 09/06/17 08:00 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Joe-- ARtie, yes external clould drive.

Redundant back up -- good. encrypted file on the laptop, and if the laptop gets lost ---- the same thing at icloud.com (which I've memorized by heart per force, as I have to use that a lot -- user name and password, hence I can get there -- after the laptop is lost -- from a cafe in a remote Asian town..

Can I do this Joe? create a encrypted file/ folder on iclound.com?

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#46193 - 09/06/17 09:42 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: kevs]
dianne Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
kevs,

You can also create a password protected Note in Notes. Select File -> Lock This Note.
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dianne • moderator

Back up everything you can't afford to lose – documents, mail, movies, music, photos, and other data and settings.

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#46194 - 09/06/17 09:47 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: dianne]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Diane, thanks, outstanding.

So just make a note: lock it with a great memorized password, put very important things in it; credit cards etc, and then go to icloud.com from any cafe (where you see the lock in url https..)

And unlock it...

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#46195 - 09/06/17 09:53 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: kevs]
dianne Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
kevs,

Yes, exactly. You will also be able to access your Note on your laptop or iPhone.

You might want to try a test Note. Put anything in it and see how it works for you.
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dianne • moderator

Back up everything you can't afford to lose – documents, mail, movies, music, photos, and other data and settings.

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#46196 - 09/06/17 10:10 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: dianne]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Diane, great tips also!

Then don't need to do the redundant encrypted folder/ file on the laptop desktop either.

And it should all work even without internet on laptop right? Just tested and one can still access the note in case traveling and internet does not work.. (probably as notes keeps part in mobile doc on hardrive?)

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#46198 - 09/06/17 10:38 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: kevs]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
You can open keychain access (in Utilities) and select the "Secure Notes" category at the bottom, and enter your data there.

The keychain is protected by your login password. If a thief steals your computer and you don't have file vault turned on, they could reset your password fairly easily. BUT your keychain will not unlock when they login, and they will not be able to read your secure notes. My neighbor kept storing her passwords in a myriad of word processor files on her computer with no protection, until I recently managed to convince her to go with secure notes. Not only has this made her passwords secure, but it's prevented her from having ten different copies of her password file (in various ages) scattered all over her account.

Normally when you log in, your keychain attempts to automatically unlock, using your login password you just entered. If it doesn't work, it won't unlock and you'll get a warning with an offer to try a different password, change the password to your current login password (after supplying your previous login password) or reset it. (create a new empty keychain) If you have to force reset your own password because you've lost it, the entire contents of your keychain is unrecoverable by any means. The computer doesn't want your password, it needs it to decrypt the keychain.

This takes advantage of something that's built-in, secure, and is already running on your computer, with no additional setup required.

As an added shortcut, in Keychain Access's preferences, you can tick the box to keep a padlock up in the menubar, where it will provide several very useful shortcuts, including Lock Screen and Open Keychain Access. (I have this on ALL of my computers)
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#46199 - 09/06/17 10:55 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: Virtual1]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
V I don't use keychain, I put all my user/ pass in an excel file, but you bring up a great question, Diane...

Can I get an excel file into icloud that locks?

ie or maybe notes can accept or import from excel?

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#46206 - 09/06/17 11:00 PM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
I'm not even certain that his obsession with iCloud is realistic…in the sense that I think he wants to create something that would be stored in the cloud but would NOT also be on his laptop, i.e. he wants to treat the cloud as if it were an external drive. Is that possible?

I have a number of files on my iCloud Drive that were
  • saved to iCloud from an iOS or MacOS app
  • moved or copied to iCloud from a drive on my Mac
  • are transparently synched to iCloud either from iOS or MacOS
  • exist only on iCloud but are opened and changed from iOS or MacOS apps
  • my Desktop, Documents folder, iTunes, photos, keychain, contacts, are all primarily resident on iCloud
  • in High Sierra I can open .dmg files stored on the iCloud Drive.
Originally Posted By: keys
Can one put a word document there?
Yes.

In other words iCloud is effectively an external drive connected to my Mac, iPad, and iPhone effectively the same as shared drives or folders on my local server.

Thanks for the explanation, but I'm still not clear on one thing... Unlike Desktop, Documents folder, iTunes, photos, keychain, contacts, a .dmg file stored in iCloud drive doesn't have a pre-set location on your Mac, so from where do you access it?


Edited by artie505 (09/07/17 12:02 AM)
Edit Reason: Re-write
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#46208 - 09/06/17 11:04 PM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: Virtual1]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
The keychain is protected by your login password. If a thief steals your computer and you don't have file vault turned on, they could reset your password fairly easily. BUT your keychain will not unlock when they login, and they will not be able to read your secure notes.

That pre-supposes that your keychain password differs from you login password, doesn't it?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#46209 - 09/07/17 06:16 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Thanks for the explanation, but I'm still not clear on one thing... Unlike Desktop, Documents folder, iTunes, photos, keychain, contacts, a .dmg file stored in iCloud drive doesn't have a pre-set location on your Mac, so from where do you access it?
The iCloud Drive itself appears In the Finder sidebar. When the dmg is mounted it shows up the same as any other mounted drive.

NOTES:
  1. If you do not see iCloud Drive in the Finder sidebar go to to Finder > Preferences > Sidebar and on the list of items to be shown in the sidebar and check iCloud Drive is checked
  2. In Finder > Preferences > General you can set new Finder Windows to show iCloud Drive
  3. Like a file or folder on any attached drive or server, an iCloud folder or file can be dropped onto the Finder Sidebar and it will remain accessible from there.
  4. You can create an alias to an iCloud file or folder and put it pretty much anywhere you want locally.
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#46210 - 09/07/17 06:20 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks guys, but I'm , we are not discussing icloud drive. We are discussing icloud.com Going to icloud.com for the credit card numbers if I lose the computer. ANd Diane had great idea of locking a note.

The note will be there online to find if the computer is stolen or lost.

ANd when traveling I go to Security and I have the long psssword of the computer the thief needs to open the computer after the lid closes.

Only exception is if it were stolen while I had the lid open but even then the thief will probably close it and then be unable to open it.

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#46212 - 09/07/17 06:28 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: kevs
Thanks guys, but I'm , we are not discussing icloud drive. We are discussing icloud.com Going to icloud.com for the credit card numbers if I lose the computer.
Actually you are going through the iCloud.com web interface to access the iCloud Drive where the file is physically resident. You only need to go through iCloud.com when you are on a "foreign" computer such as at the public library. On your Mac, iPad, or iPhone you can access iCloud directly without going through the iCloud.com web interface.
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#46214 - 09/07/17 06:41 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: dianne]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Thanks for the tip Dianne. 'tis much appreciated! grin
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Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#46216 - 09/07/17 07:28 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
ANd when traveling I go to Security and I have the long psssword of the computer the thief needs to open the computer after the lid closes.

Only exception is if it were stolen while I had the lid open but even then the thief will probably close it and then be unable to open it.

Nope! Anyone with physical possession of your computer can change its login password. (...get admin access to a Mac without knowing the current password)

Because of that, it would be wise of you to use different admin and keychain passwords if you don't already.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#46218 - 09/07/17 07:58 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Joe, thanks that's the point, if stolen, I'll be at a cafe getting to icloud.com

And that note when I have laptop, will just come up normally with or without internet.

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#46219 - 09/07/17 08:44 AM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
V I don't use keychain, I put all my user/ pass in an excel file....

Just to clarify, kevs, you very likely DO use Keychain Access.
  • If you use Mail.app, it accesses passwords stored in your keychain to both send and receive email.
  • If you save passwords in Safari, they're stored in your keychain, and Safari requires a key that's also stored in your keychain to access them.
  • If you've got a router or AirPort Base Station, the password that unlocks your network is stored in your keychain.
That's why I suggested that your keychain password differ from your admin password.

It might be informative if you look in /Applications/Utilities/Keychain Access.app > Local Items to see what's in there.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#46227 - 09/07/17 12:52 PM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: kevs
Joe, thanks that's the point, if stolen, I'll be at a cafe getting to icloud.com

And that note when I have laptop, will just come up normally with or without internet.
The problem at the internet cafe or public library, or wherever is you would have to have a compatible app on the cafe machine to open any encrypted file. So in the specific instance you will have to rely on the inherent security of the iCloud Drive which you would access by logging onto iCloud.com. As additional protection use a strong password phrase for you Apple account/iCloud Drive and make a habit of changing it every three to six months. (Set a repeating Reminder to change it). Choose a misleading name for the data file or even better scatter the information over several files with names unrelated to their content. The more files you have on the iCloud Drive, the longer it would take for a malefactor to dig out everything she/he needs. Certainly this is not bullet proof, but it is bullet proof enough to deflect an opportunistic thief.

Don't neglect security on your laptop either:
  • in System Preferences > Security & Privacy > Filevault, turn on Filevault encryption NOTE: it will take as much as a day or two to complete the encryption process, but you can use your laptop as it is being encrypted, just be sure and keep it plugged in during the process.
  • in System Preferences > Desktop & Screen Saver, set "Start after" to a short interval say 1 or 2 minutes
  • in System Preferences > Security & Privacy > General, set "Require password XXXX after sleep or screen saver begins" to a short interval such as immediately, 5 seconds, or 1 minute
  • in system Preferences > Users & Groups > Login options, set Automatic login to OFF. (This is automatically set to off during the encryption process.
  • in System Preferences > iCloud, be sure "Find My Mac" is turned ON
That does not completely close the window of vulnerability, but it makes the opening very very narrow.
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#46228 - 09/07/17 01:53 PM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Joe, when I take laptop out house or hotel I always then manually set security to IMMEDIATELY require a password (after sleep or screensaver.) Essentially it's required routine I do. Pita, but I've gotten used to this for the laptop.


Have not done file vault yet; so complex, but I think you just crossed that Rubicon recently correct? Any comments on it? Overkill?

For the the travel one file I'll use a locked note (per Diane's great tip), and that's it! From hotel or cafe (if laptop is lost), I log into icloud.com and there is my locked note with credit card info and I'll unlock it and be back in action.

I generally don't manually have a timetable to change the icloud.com password as I am usually forced to change it so much by Apple! It seems Apple forces that password to change about every few months, but you think this is vital to do? Like credit cards, I have a friend who changes his card numbers every year, but I just wait till I'm forced to do that which happens every 2 years about.

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#46230 - 09/07/17 03:17 PM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: kevs
Have not done file vault yet; so complex, but I think you just crossed that Rubicon recently correct? Any comments on it? Overkill?
Filevault may seem intimidating but in practice it is not at all complex.
  • you can turn it on in seconds (the initial encryption may take a day or so to complete but that goes on in the background
  • it is just another password and it can be set to the same password as your regular logon account and saved in your keychain so that it is entered automatically when you logon to your account.
  • Apple does require you to have a backdoor in case you lose the password. There are two options for backdoor entry, either a key generate and sent to you by Apple and never recorded by them or I chose to allow my iCloud account to open it.
  • You can have your Time Machine backup unencrypted but when you set it up, Time Machine will nag you to use an encrypted volume for for the backup.
  • Understandably you do not want automatic login enabled as that would defeat the purpose of drive encryption.
  • Any one remotely accessing files on your drive will have to know the password.
  • Other than that in every day use Filevault is totally transparent and unnoticeable.

Originally Posted By: kevs
For the the travel one file I'll use a locked note (per Diane's great tip), and that's it! From hotel or cafe (if laptop is lost), I log into icloud.com and there is my locked note with credit card info and I'll unlock it and be back in action.
I urge you to test that out before you rely on it. How are you going to open an encrypted note if you aren't using the Note application? It may work but I would want to verify that it does.
Originally Posted By: kevs
I generally don't manually have a timetable to change the icloud.com password as I am usually forced to change it so much by Apple! It seems Apple forces that password to change about every few months, but you think this is vital to do? Like credit cards, I have a friend who changes his card numbers every year, but I just wait till I'm forced to do that which happens every 2 years about.
My previous Apple password dated back over 10 years to the original .Mac accounts. Earlier this year, I got nervous because the password was so insecure and I had used the same password on a variety of sites over the years. So I voluntarily changed it and at the same time set up two step verification. In all those years Apple never complained or made me change passwords. confused

My credit card numbers on the other hand only get changed when either I or my bank detect a possibly fraudulent transaction or the card is renewed. With three credit card accounts that means one or two change in a year.


Edited by joemikeb (09/07/17 03:20 PM)
Edit Reason: typo
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#46234 - 09/07/17 05:14 PM Re: Storing imporant credit card into while traveling. [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Joe:

What is file vault doing for you in a sentence or two? (as I know you went years without it). What is the main upside? Any annoying downsides?

But I have the note app on the laptop, and if the laptop gets lost, icloud.com, it's right there. Just test, and it unlocked fine on icloud.com

I don't know why, but any minor thing and boom: Apple makes me change my password. (every year on average) I just add a new letter before the long pass each time- so I'm on c... password. Like you I'm forced to changed credit card numbers every year or two.

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Moderator:  alternaut, dianne, MacManiac