#46119  08/31/17 09:49 PM
Any HP calculator fans?

Registered: 08/04/09

I found nonpareil for OS X (simulator of hp11c, hp12c, hp15c, hp16c, hp35, hp45, hp55, hp80, hp21, hp25c, hp32e, hp33c, hp34c, hp37e, hp38c & hp38e calculators).
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top



#46120  09/01/17 12:47 AM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: artie505]

Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th 

Loved the calculators. Hated reverse Polish notation. (We're talking about life in the '70s. Don't know what HP's been up to since.)

Top



#46121  09/01/17 09:08 AM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: grelber]

Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California

I agree with you on RPN.
In some of the classes I taught, students were required to have a calculator with statistical capabilities. I would always advise them to avoid HP/RPN. Over the years students did show up with HP calculators that were algebraic, nonRPN, so the company may have moved into this more "standard" entry scheme.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984. Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.15.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

Top



#46123  09/01/17 11:47 AM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: grelber]

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa

Loved the calculators. Hated reverse Polish notation. (We're talking about life in the '70s. Don't know what HP's been up to since.) Well there are times where you either have RPN or a crapton of parentheses. And when parens get buried 4+ levels deep it starts getting really tricky seeing what the actual order of operations is going to be.
_________________________
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

Top



#46126  09/01/17 12:20 PM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: Virtual1]

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley

Loved the calculators. Hated reverse Polish notation. Well there are times where you either have RPN or a crapton of parentheses. Okay, oaky...I'll be the one to put up his hand and ask "What is Reverse Polish Notation?" I'm assuming it isn't asableik egasuas.
_________________________
ryck
iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4 OS Mojave 10.14.6 Canon MX710 Printer Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner Time Machine on 1TB LaCie USBC Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top



#46127  09/01/17 12:50 PM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: ryck]

Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th 

Okay, [okay] ... I'll be the one to put up his hand and ask "What is Reverse Polish Notation?" As Pan Wiki says: "Reverse Polish notation (RPN), also known as Polish postfix notation or simply postfix notation, is a mathematical notation in which operators follow their operands, in contrast to Polish notation (PN), in which operators precede their operands." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Polish_notationMmmmm ... kielbasa

Top



#46129  09/01/17 02:06 PM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: Virtual1]

Registered: 08/04/09

...when parens get buried 4+ levels deep it starts getting really tricky seeing what the actual order of operations is going to be. Yep! Although at first glance, I can see where RPN takes an awful lot of getting used to...reading it moreso than writing it.
Edited by artie505 (09/01/17 03:30 PM) Edit Reason: More
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top



#46140  09/02/17 07:06 AM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: grelber]

Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California

Okay, [okay] ... I'll be the one to put up his hand and ask "What is Reverse Polish Notation?" As Pan Wiki says: "Reverse Polish notation (RPN), also known as Polish postfix notation or simply postfix notation, is a mathematical notation in which operators follow their operands, in contrast to Polish notation (PN), in which operators precede their operands." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Polish_notationMmmmm ... kielbasa That is to say, with RPN you evaluate expressions using correct mathematical order of operations AND enter the expressions into the calculator in that order. With "regular" calculators, you still evaluate mathematically, but enter the expressions as you would write them on a piece of paper. For example: 2 x (3+4). This is 14. "Regular" entry is 2, x, (,3,+,4,) [no commas, just used here to typographically separate the keystrokes]. In RPN, you would enter [let's see if I remember correctly] (,3,+,4,),x,2. Whew.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984. Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.15.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

Top



#46143  09/02/17 10:56 AM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: Ira L]

Moderator
Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas

For example: 2 x (3+4). This is 14. "Regular" entry is 2, x, (,3,+,4,) [no commas, just used here to typographically separate the keystrokes]. In RPN, you would enter [let's see if I remember correctly] (,3,+,4,),x,2. My recollection using RPN on an HP calculator the actual keystrokes would be 3 enter 4 + 2 x
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top



#46148  09/02/17 01:48 PM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: joemikeb]

Registered: 08/04/09

Following grelber's linked Wikipedia article, 2 x (3+4) would be written in RPN as either 3 4 + 2 x or 2 3 4 + x .
More: I'm not sure at which points you'd hit enter.
Edited by artie505 (09/02/17 09:58 PM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top



#46163  09/04/17 07:45 AM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: artie505]

Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California

Yeah, the operation does come after the digit. Don't recall where "enter" occurs. I'm glad we are all so up on RPN!
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984. Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.15.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

Top



#46179  09/05/17 06:28 AM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: Ira L]

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa

seeing as the operators are entered last, technically you shouldn't need to tell it to calculate the line because it already knows its time. Each time you hit an operator, it knows the operand(s) have already been provided and it can perform the operation immediately. Hitting "=" or "enter" should be implied. Unless you have a calculator that lets you edit before calculating anyway. 3,4+2* (3,4+ immediately evaluates to 7, and then 2* immediately evaluates to 14) 2,3,4+* (2,3,4+ causes 3,4+ to immediately evaluate to 7 and leaves 2,7 in the stack, then when you hit * it evaluates to 14)
This is processing a stack btw. A stack is like a stack of dinner dishes, you can only add a plate on the top ("push") or take a plate off the top ("pop") a stack. When you enter a number, it's pushed onto the stack. When you enter an operator, it pops however many operands the operator needs (usually 2, sometimes 1 or 3) and evaluates them, and pushes the result back onto the stack. Operators like !, sin, and Log would only pop one operand and push the result into its place.
Stacks and Queues are both interesting structures in programming. Circular queues can really get weird but can be very useful. None of them behave well when they overflow.
_________________________
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

Top



#46187  09/05/17 02:29 PM
Re: Any HP calculator fans?
[Re: Virtual1]

Moderator
Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas

My recollection using RPN on an HP calculator the actual keystrokes would be 3 enter 4 + 2 x Explanation:  The reason for pressing "enter" between the 3 and the 4 is to tell the computer that 3 is one entry on the stack and 4 another.
 The + operator following the 4 serves the same purpose as well as signaling an add operation.
 Since an operation has been performed the 2 is the taken as a new data entry on the stack and like the 4 is terminated by the x operator (x).
2 enter 3 enter 4 + x would also work, but it takes an additional keystroke and to me is less intuitive than the first version.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top




