Home Forums Networks & Cross-Platform Networking Storing imporant credit card into while traveling.

I was just abroad and an ATM, would not return my card, and then Citi wanted the card number to log in, which I did not have.

I did not want to travel around with hardcopy paper backups of the numbers. Any tips on how to travel around, yet have access to those card number from a computer if need be?

Why not?! I always travel with a card (about the size of a credit card, cut from a 3x5 card) containing important numbers (credit cards, frequent flyer programs, other important documents) just to be on the safe side. Sometimes I carry 2 copies of such in different locations to be on an even safer side. (If there are passwords/PINs associated with any of those items, then I just have to trust my memory.)

I carry 2 copies of Passport and DL, but not cards/ passwords.
If you have full card written down then someone can use it.

Two passports? How'd you pull that one off?

If you search, you'll find any number of 3rd party apps that enable you to encrypt a folder, but you can do the job yourself by using Disk Utility to create an encrypted disk image; you can stash a Text Edit doc with your numbers, passwords, etc. inside either encrypted option.

If you want to consider a technological solution: there are many ‘vault’-like apps for the iPhone that store photos, notes, etc. behind a lock (password, swipe pattern, fingerprint, facial recognition). Some even look like a calculator app, so even their presence is obfuscated.

I don't bring my iphone, the idea is a place you could store a file in apples icloud.

You can access files in your iCloud account from any internet device, so it would be possible to store the card data or images as text or perhaps jpeg files and access them that way. However that would not be particularly secure unless the data were encrypted and then you are back to having to have specific applications installed on any machine you want to access the data from. Both 1Password and Evernote would work but, you might have to install the app and purchase a license to use it on a foreign machine.

Given most airlines now accept boarding passes on smart phones, is strong reason for traveling with your iPhone along with secure access to Apple Pay, PayPal, and your credit card data or images.

Ok Joe, thanks, well, I'll just make disk image on the laptop and put a word file in there; but what if the laptop gets stolen/ lost?

That's why you ENCRYPT the disk image...just another step in the same procedure. (The disk image is a wasted step without the encryption.)

Yes that disk image on desktop will be encrypted, but what if laptop gets lost?

Is there a quick place in cloud that in encrypted I can keep numbers?

If your password is strong enough, it won't matter if you lose the laptop. (The disk image doesn't have to be on your desktop; you can hide it somewhere deep in the OS.)

If there's a cloud-based solution for you, I don't have enough knowledge to even begin to guess what it may be.

If a technological solution to a simple problem is so complex to implement, why would one not go back to basics* (eg, see my earlier comments in this thread)?!

* That's one of the reasons I don't have a smartphone — I don't understand them (not for the lack of trying) and the pricing structure of using them is completely opaque to me and service providers cannot (or will not) provide any real insight into their price plans.

As kevs said, if somebody gets hold of your piece of paper they can use your credit card numbers, and although embedded chips may be somewhat of a deterrent, not all cards have chips as of today's date, and the Internet doesn't always require a physical card.

Mine are chipped and I keep the security codes separate. On top of that fraudulently used and stolen cards are covered on my home insurance, as well as by the credit card companies. So I'm covered every which way from Sunday.
I'd be surprised if those avenues of recourse weren't available to you guys.

I am not aware of any way that chips can be used for internet transactions and a huge percentage of fraudulent transactions are conducted over the internet with only the credit card number, expiration date, and in some cases the security number. That way no one knows what the perpetrator looks like or has a sample of their handwriting. Additionally, given the card number the rest can be counterfeited — at least enough to get by most checkout clerks.

On this side of the border credit card losses are limited to $50 by federal statute, but even with that and insurance, loss recovery can take months, even years and often is incomplete. There are also time limits on reporting losses and smart criminals often bleed you out in small amounts that you do not notice or overlook on your bill and by the time you realize you are being defrauded it is too late to be covered. Debit card losses are not protected and can easily exceed your net worth.

What isn't covered in your scenario is the use of the information to take out additional credit cards in your name, mortgage loans on your home or business, etc. Yes there is insurance for that, but it is expensive, their track record is spotty, and there again recovery can take a long time. You probably are not as well covered as you think you are.

You can log into iCloud or Dropbox (if you have an account) from any computer in the world. I don't know if iCloud encrypts data, but Dropbox does. Just save a document to one of those places. Then you only need to worry about the security of public computers while you are logging in.

This Apple Support Article outlines Apple's online data protection and encryption. This arsTechnica article covers iCloud data encryption and concludes: which is better than I thought and makes me feel a lot better about my data from an APFS (Encrypted) drive that is mirrored on iCloud.

That said, I will continue to keep passwords, credit card and financial information, etc. in 1Password and/or Evernote for their additional layers of encryption, because these applications run on both MacOS and iOS devices. While I cannot access that from a public computer, I always have my MBP, iPad, or iPhone with me. If I traveled internationally and especially in the third world I might have to rethink the availability of my backup data.

All that may be true below the 49th or maybe just in Texas (eg, flood damage to belongings is not covered unless you've tacked on flood damage coverage to your policy), but insurance coverage north of the 49th is generally a lot more comprehensive: Loss recovery on my credit cards is relatively immediate, identity theft and its sequelae are covered — all on my home insurance; disputed amounts on credit cards are immediately 'frozen' when reported, both here and in the USA, so one is immediately protected (assuming that one is judicious and checks credit cards accounts on some sort of regular basis).

FYI since 1968 in Texas, the other 49 states, and U.S. territorial possessions flood insurance is required for mortgaged properties in flood prone areas and is only available from the National Flood Insurance Program administered through FEMA although it is purchased through commercial insurance companies and agencies. Houston and the surrounding towns were hit by a rain that exceeded the 1,000 year flood plain and many of the flooded homes were meters above the 100 year flood plain. The land there is essentially flat with virtually zero slope and storm drains, creeks, roads, lawns, etc. did not have enough slope or capacity to carry the runoff so the water backed up and literally climbed the few low hills in town. Because of previous flooding from hurricanes the NFIP rates are very high and unaffordable for economically disadvantaged residents. Many far more affluent homes that have never before been even close to being threatened with flooding had water rising to the second floor. But because they thought they were "safe" their owners saw no benefit in flood insurance and didn't buy any.

To put icing on Houston's bitter cake, the President's proposed budget slashes FEMA funding, and if the budget passes it may be several years before FEMA will have funds to pay out Houston's flood insurance claims. They are still paying claims from Hurricane Katrina that hit New Orleans in 2005.

The current trend is to buy out flood prone areas rather than permitting rebuilding, but in Houston's case, how would anyone go about buying out most of the sixth largest city in the United States (some 4.65 million people), including a major portion of the nations petrochemical industry, and one of the largest seaports? On the other hand, as the sea level rise from glacial melt continues, and the number and strengths of tropical cyclones increases due to global warming, there may be no other viable long term option.

Great info. Thanks for capsulizing it.

In this neck of the woods/prairies we're getting far too many floodings from weather phenomena, such that building codes are now gearing up for so-called 1-in-1000-year rains, meaning that location (house-siting) must conform to new criteria relating to proximity to water bodies, slope of site, etc. Insurance on non-conforming properties (including those already extant) becomes problematic — not to put too fine a point on it.

Thanks all, yes I just went to SE ASia.. So maybe dropbox? Though honestly dropbox is just barely workable from US. It's very clunky and buggy... but I could keep that in mind.

But I can log into icloud very well and consistently. Can I encrypt a note or something in icloud?

See my previously referenced arsTechica article. iCloud IS encrypted.

Joe, thanks, cool, but let's say I make a note in notes with credit card numbers. Then that note is on my desktop/ laptop, and the thief who steals the desktop or laptop will see the note right? Unless there a way to just have a note show in icloud.com?

I like the idea of an encrypted disk image also. Storing that on iCloud or Dropbox would make a good mobile solution, so long as you knew you were (A) going to have internet access and (B) knew you were going to have a computer that could open the disk image.

Though both keep a cached copy, making continuous internet access non-essential.

Still my question: for all:

cool, but let's say I make a note in notes with credit card numbers. Then that note is on my desktop/ laptop, and the thief who steals the desktop or laptop will see the note right? Unless there a way to just have a note show in icloud.com?

As I've already pointed out, since you're going to put your note inside an ENCRYPTED disk image (to which only you know the complicated password), it won't matter who's got access to your computer.

The note, itself, will NOT be on your desktop; it will be inaccessible.

artie505,

Two things:

• I am unable to open a .sparseimage in iCloud.
• I can open a password protected .pdf file.

Diane, thanks, how does up put a pdf file into icloud.com

Can one put a word document there?

Thanks for that dianne; it may be helpful to kevs, but it didn't relate to anything I've posted.

My suggestion was that kevs create an encrypted, simple, not sparse, disk image that would be stored on his laptop.

I'm not even certain that his obsession with iCloud is realistic...in the sense that I think he wants to create something that would be stored in the cloud but would NOT also be on his laptop, i.e. he wants to treat the cloud as if it were an external drive. Is that possible?

I have a number of files on my iCloud Drive that were

• saved to iCloud from an iOS or MacOS app
• moved or copied to iCloud from a drive on my Mac
• are transparently synched to iCloud either from iOS or MacOS
• exist only on iCloud but are opened and changed from iOS or MacOS apps
• my Desktop, Documents folder, iTunes, photos, keychain, contacts, are all primarily resident on iCloud
• in High Sierra I can open .dmg files stored on the iCloud Drive.

Yes.

In other words iCloud is effectively an external drive connected to my Mac, iPad, and iPhone effectively the same as shared drives or folders on my local server.

Thanks Joe-- ARtie, yes external clould drive.

Redundant back up -- good. encrypted file on the laptop, and if the laptop gets lost ---- the same thing at icloud.com (which I've memorized by heart per force, as I have to use that a lot -- user name and password, hence I can get there -- after the laptop is lost -- from a cafe in a remote Asian town..

Can I do this Joe? create a encrypted file/ folder on iclound.com?

kevs,

You can also create a password protected Note in Notes. Select File -> Lock This Note.

Diane, thanks, outstanding.

So just make a note: lock it with a great memorized password, put very important things in it; credit cards etc, and then go to icloud.com from any cafe (where you see the lock in url https..)

And unlock it...

kevs,

Yes, exactly. You will also be able to access your Note on your laptop or iPhone.

You might want to try a test Note. Put anything in it and see how it works for you.

Diane, great tips also!

Then don't need to do the redundant encrypted folder/ file on the laptop desktop either.

And it should all work even without internet on laptop right? Just tested and one can still access the note in case traveling and internet does not work.. (probably as notes keeps part in mobile doc on hardrive?)

You can open keychain access (in Utilities) and select the "Secure Notes" category at the bottom, and enter your data there.

The keychain is protected by your login password. If a thief steals your computer and you don't have file vault turned on, they could reset your password fairly easily. BUT your keychain will not unlock when they login, and they will not be able to read your secure notes. My neighbor kept storing her passwords in a myriad of word processor files on her computer with no protection, until I recently managed to convince her to go with secure notes. Not only has this made her passwords secure, but it's prevented her from having ten different copies of her password file (in various ages) scattered all over her account.

Normally when you log in, your keychain attempts to automatically unlock, using your login password you just entered. If it doesn't work, it won't unlock and you'll get a warning with an offer to try a different password, change the password to your current login password (after supplying your previous login password) or reset it. (create a new empty keychain) If you have to force reset your own password because you've lost it, the entire contents of your keychain is unrecoverable by any means. The computer doesn't want your password, it needs it to decrypt the keychain.

This takes advantage of something that's built-in, secure, and is already running on your computer, with no additional setup required.

As an added shortcut, in Keychain Access's preferences, you can tick the box to keep a padlock up in the menubar, where it will provide several very useful shortcuts, including Lock Screen and Open Keychain Access. (I have this on ALL of my computers)

V I don't use keychain, I put all my user/ pass in an excel file, but you bring up a great question, Diane...

Can I get an excel file into icloud that locks?

ie or maybe notes can accept or import from excel?

Thanks for the explanation, but I'm still not clear on one thing... Unlike Desktop, Documents folder, iTunes, photos, keychain, contacts, a .dmg file stored in iCloud drive doesn't have a pre-set location on your Mac, so from where do you access it?

That pre-supposes that your keychain password differs from you login password, doesn't it?

The iCloud Drive itself appears In the Finder sidebar. When the dmg is mounted it shows up the same as any other mounted drive.

NOTES:

1. If you do not see iCloud Drive in the Finder sidebar go to to Finder > Preferences > Sidebar and on the list of items to be shown in the sidebar and check iCloud Drive is checked
2. In Finder > Preferences > General you can set new Finder Windows to show iCloud Drive
3. Like a file or folder on any attached drive or server, an iCloud folder or file can be dropped onto the Finder Sidebar and it will remain accessible from there.
4. You can create an alias to an iCloud file or folder and put it pretty much anywhere you want locally.

Thanks guys, but I'm , we are not discussing icloud drive. We are discussing icloud.com Going to icloud.com for the credit card numbers if I lose the computer. ANd Diane had great idea of locking a note.

The note will be there online to find if the computer is stolen or lost.

ANd when traveling I go to Security and I have the long psssword of the computer the thief needs to open the computer after the lid closes.

Only exception is if it were stolen while I had the lid open but even then the thief will probably close it and then be unable to open it.

Actually you are going through the iCloud.com web interface to access the iCloud Drive where the file is physically resident. You only need to go through iCloud.com when you are on a "foreign" computer such as at the public library. On your Mac, iPad, or iPhone you can access iCloud directly without going through the iCloud.com web interface.

Thanks for the tip Dianne. 'tis much appreciated!

Nope! Anyone with physical possession of your computer can change its login password. (...get admin access to a Mac without knowing the current password)

Because of that, it would be wise of you to use different admin and keychain passwords if you don't already.

Joe, thanks that's the point, if stolen, I'll be at a cafe getting to icloud.com

And that note when I have laptop, will just come up normally with or without internet.

Just to clarify, kevs, you very likely DO use Keychain Access.

• If you use Mail.app, it accesses passwords stored in your keychain to both send and receive email.
• If you save passwords in Safari, they're stored in your keychain, and Safari requires a key that's also stored in your keychain to access them.
• If you've got a router or AirPort Base Station, the password that unlocks your network is stored in your keychain.

That's why I suggested that your keychain password differ from your admin password.

It might be informative if you look in /Applications/Utilities/Keychain Access.app > Local Items to see what's in there.

The problem at the internet cafe or public library, or wherever is you would have to have a compatible app on the cafe machine to open any encrypted file. So in the specific instance you will have to rely on the inherent security of the iCloud Drive which you would access by logging onto iCloud.com. As additional protection use a strong password phrase for you Apple account/iCloud Drive and make a habit of changing it every three to six months. (Set a repeating Reminder to change it). Choose a misleading name for the data file or even better scatter the information over several files with names unrelated to their content. The more files you have on the iCloud Drive, the longer it would take for a malefactor to dig out everything she/he needs. Certainly this is not bullet proof, but it is bullet proof enough to deflect an opportunistic thief.

Don't neglect security on your laptop either:

• in System Preferences > Security & Privacy > Filevault, turn on Filevault encryption NOTE: it will take as much as a day or two to complete the encryption process, but you can use your laptop as it is being encrypted, just be sure and keep it plugged in during the process.
• in System Preferences > Desktop & Screen Saver, set "Start after" to a short interval say 1 or 2 minutes
• in System Preferences > Security & Privacy > General, set "Require password XXXX after sleep or screen saver begins" to a short interval such as immediately, 5 seconds, or 1 minute
• in system Preferences > Users & Groups > Login options, set Automatic login to OFF. (This is automatically set to off during the encryption process.
• in System Preferences > iCloud, be sure "Find My Mac" is turned ON

That does not completely close the window of vulnerability, but it makes the opening very very narrow.

Thanks Joe, when I take laptop out house or hotel I always then manually set security to IMMEDIATELY require a password (after sleep or screensaver.) Essentially it's required routine I do. Pita, but I've gotten used to this for the laptop.


Have not done file vault yet; so complex, but I think you just crossed that Rubicon recently correct? Any comments on it? Overkill?

For the the travel one file I'll use a locked note (per Diane's great tip), and that's it! From hotel or cafe (if laptop is lost), I log into icloud.com and there is my locked note with credit card info and I'll unlock it and be back in action.

I generally don't manually have a timetable to change the icloud.com password as I am usually forced to change it so much by Apple! It seems Apple forces that password to change about every few months, but you think this is vital to do? Like credit cards, I have a friend who changes his card numbers every year, but I just wait till I'm forced to do that which happens every 2 years about.

Filevault may seem intimidating but in practice it is not at all complex.

• you can turn it on in seconds (the initial encryption may take a day or so to complete but that goes on in the background
• it is just another password and it can be set to the same password as your regular logon account and saved in your keychain so that it is entered automatically when you logon to your account.
• Apple does require you to have a backdoor in case you lose the password. There are two options for backdoor entry, either a key generate and sent to you by Apple and never recorded by them or I chose to allow my iCloud account to open it.
• You can have your Time Machine backup unencrypted but when you set it up, Time Machine will nag you to use an encrypted volume for for the backup.
• Understandably you do not want automatic login enabled as that would defeat the purpose of drive encryption.
• Any one remotely accessing files on your drive will have to know the password.
• Other than that in every day use Filevault is totally transparent and unnoticeable.

I urge you to test that out before you rely on it. How are you going to open an encrypted note if you aren't using the Note application? It may work but I would want to verify that it does.
My previous Apple password dated back over 10 years to the original .Mac accounts. Earlier this year, I got nervous because the password was so insecure and I had used the same password on a variety of sites over the years. So I voluntarily changed it and at the same time set up two step verification. In all those years Apple never complained or made me change passwords.

My credit card numbers on the other hand only get changed when either I or my bank detect a possibly fraudulent transaction or the card is renewed. With three credit card accounts that means one or two change in a year.

Thanks Joe:

What is file vault doing for you in a sentence or two? (as I know you went years without it). What is the main upside? Any annoying downsides?

But I have the note app on the laptop, and if the laptop gets lost, icloud.com, it's right there. Just test, and it unlocked fine on icloud.com

I don't know why, but any minor thing and boom: Apple makes me change my password. (every year on average) I just add a new letter before the long pass each time- so I'm on c... password. Like you I'm forced to changed credit card numbers every year or two.

For years I did not have a laptop and now I do. Even though I have not had a laptop before I know that for many reasons including the fact they go out into the world, laptops grow legs and walk off with someone else far more often than desktop computers. Filevault protects the information on my laptop should it "grow legs". The only annoyance is having to enter the password more often — but in High Sierra my Apple Watch will open the computer if the watch is connected to my iPhone and no password is needed except when booting up.


What app on a Windows computer did you use to open the encrypted Note from iCloud?


Maybe you aren't holding your mouth right There have been times my password has not been recognized, but so far just waiting a few minutes or sometimes hours and it has started to work again. The result, I suspect, of a temporary glitch on Apple's password servers.

Thanks Joe:

But with laptop: I use it as a 2nd workstation at home: so it would be unbearable to have to do the long password at home 2-3 times a day. So what I do is just set privacy manually for the long password right before I take it away to a local US cafe or something. Your opinion on that strategy for the laptop -- which I use as a portable computer but also a home desktop.... (I'm assuming using it at home as a desktop with Filevault I'd have to constantly be entering a long password)

"What app on a Windows computer did you use to open the encrypted Note from iCloud?"

Did I say I'm on a Windows computer? Ok, so yeah, I did not use a Windows computer, to test, your implying when I'm abroad I'll be on a hotel or public windows computer. ok, True.. but even on a windows computer you go to Chrome and click icloud.com and enter user/ pass and then once your on icloud.com, it's the same as being on icloud.com in my living room in the US no?

True, Apple glitches with password system, which forces a new icloud password every 6 -12 months.

No, because you'll be on a PC, NOT a Mac, and you wont have access to the same apps.

Hmmm... An encrypted password-protected PDF may be your answer.

Joe, Artie is interjecting. so pick it up if you want.

I'm on icloud.com. What do apps have anything to do with anything?

When you are on icloud.com is all the same.

Am I missing something.

?

Yep!

Oops! Sorry... Just noticed the "Private Thread" icon.

:dope slap:

Keys, you are not the one that is missing something. Artie and I were both missing the fact that Notes is one of the apps available on iCloud.com along with Mail, Calendar, Contacts, Calendar, Photos, Reminders, Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.

So you are not missing anything and YES you could access iCloud.com on virtually any computer with any browser, open the iCloud Notes app and open the locked Notes file. My apologies for missing the obvious.

No problem, Joe, thanks for great info as always...

Final quesiton (got lost), on laptop & Filevault:

With laptop: I use it as a 2nd workstation at home: so it would be unbearable to have to do the long password at home 2-3 times a day. So what I do is just set privacy manually for the long password right before I take it away to a local US cafe or something. Your opinion on that strategy for the laptop -- which I use as a portable computer but also a home desktop.... (I'm assuming using it at home as a desktop with Filevault I'd have to constantly be entering a long password)

Oops!

The simple answer is you do not have to enter the FileVault password at all if it is stored in your Keychain it is entered automatically when you logon to or unlock your account. The detailed answer to has several parts.

1. At home I use my laptop closed lid and attached to a 27" monitor, a variety of drives, scanners and other paraphernalia through an OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock (which also charges the MBP) and I set the following System Preferences:
   1. Security & Privacy > General: Require password 1 hour after sleep or screensaver begins
   2. Security & Privacy > General: Allow your Apple Watch to unlock your Mac
   3. Desktop & Screensaver > Screensaver: Start after 20 minutes
   4. Energy Saver > Power Adaptor: Turn Display off after 30 minutes.
2. When I take it on the Road I use the settings I previously recommended to minimize the window of opportunity for someone getting it while it is open.
3. You mention a "long password" my passwords are STRONG, but that does not necessarily mean LONG. My rule of thumb for passwords is:
   1. twelve characters or more
   2. at least one numeral
   3. at least one upper case character
   4. at least one lower case character
   5. at least one special character !@#$%^&&*()_+?/
   6. I haven't used it before
   7. is memorable
   8. Both 1Password and Keychain Access agree that it is STRONG.
   9. Nice to have: the character are distributed on the keyboard so that the word (or phrase) is easy to type.
4. Coming up with a STRONG SHORT keyword or phrase can take some time. I often have 1Password make suggestions until I find one I like or can adapt. 1Password has a lot more options for password suggestions than Keychain Access

Given a reasonable password length and a decent interval before it kicks in and my Apple Watch unlocking the MBP (NOTE: the Apple Watch has to be unlocked before it can unlock the MBP and has its own passcode) it is not annoying at all. I don't even have to enter the password all that often.

💡‼️

Responding to your question made me think I need to look into creating an Automator Script or Apple Script to automate switching those settings back and forth. I will have to explore that possibility.

Joe, so at home:

1) You are doing a password to get into your computer? I don't do that, but I guess if you get burlarized then it's the ultimate insurance.

2) You do a Security and Privacy password (which I do when I take my laptop away), but you are also doing Filevault, which requires a 2nd round no?

Sorry now I re-read this from you, "The simple answer is you do not have to enter the FileVault password at all if it is stored in your Keychain it is entered automatically when you logon to or unlock your account"

But if you get auto logged in what the protection from File Vault?

The first thing Filevault does is deactivate auto logon, so I do have to enter my account password...

• every time I boot my MBP
• when I wake it up after it has been inactive for a set period of time* — My Apple Watch will serve as the password if the watch has been activated by entering its pass code and I do it there because I have Apple Pay on the watch.
• every time an administrative password is required with or without Filevault encryption.
• all in all 1 to maybe 3 times a day.

*The time period at home is 1 hour after sleep or screensaver, on the road it is 5 minutes (or less) depending on where I am.

Ok Joe, I don't bother with that at home... this is for the burglar? Between my desktop and laptop, I would have to enter a password a dozen times a day, too cumbersome.