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#45632 - 07/09/17 08:35 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
I didn't know that was possible. Of course, I don't know a lot of things about computers. Stuff that's easy for you and others just throws me off like using my external drive. I don't understand all the ins and outs so I am at a standstill.

I am going to try to download Sierra to my old MBP and see what happens.


And at any rate, I'll bet that they didn't d/l from the App Store, but from some proprietary source that doesn't even interact with it. [/quote]
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#45633 - 07/09/17 10:42 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I didn't know that was possible. Of course, I don't know a lot of things about computers. Stuff that's easy for you and others just throws me off like using my external drive. I don't understand all the ins and outs so I am at a standstill.

I am going to try to download Sierra to my old MBP and see what happens.


Originally Posted By: artie
And at any rate, I'll bet that they didn't d/l from the App Store, but from some proprietary source that doesn't even interact with it.

Don't sell yourself short! You're doing pretty good with this "stuff", but since you're not dealing with it constantly it's not fresh in your mind, so it's daunting, not to mention that I imagine that you're still in shock over what you've just been through with not just one computer, but THREE of them.

The Geniuses have access to diagnostic tools and other resources that we mere mortals don't even know exist until we see them in use. (I'll bet it didn't take hir very long to install Sierra on your MBP.)

In theory, your Sierra d/l should successfully overwrite whatever's on your old MBP's HDD and leave it with a functional installation.

GOOD LUCK! smile

More: Since you'll be initiating your Sierra d/l from a Mavericks volume, I think it will be offered to you in your "Purchased" tab, and if it is, click on the offer, and it should remain in the tab for future d/l.


Edited by artie505 (07/10/17 02:39 AM)
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#45634 - 07/10/17 05:53 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
And at any rate, I'll bet that they didn't d/l from the App Store, but from some proprietary source that doesn't even interact with it.
Apple Stores have their own in house servers with a variety of OS and iOS updates and upgrades as well as proprietary diagnostics. If you want to see a Genius panic, be in the store when that server crashes.

๐Ÿ™€

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#45637 - 07/10/17 08:44 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: joemikeb]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
LOL!!!



If you want to see a Genius panic, be in the store when that server crashes.
<p style="font-size:48px;">๐Ÿ™€</p> [/quote]
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#45643 - 07/10/17 10:24 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: plantsower
OK, so I called Applecare for my email problems. They pretty quickly went right to erase HD and redownload the OS. I didn't want to but they had no other answers.

So, we erased the HD and now I cannot connect to the internet to get to recovery. When I had to do this with my older MBP, I could do recovery after connecting to Ethernet. Of course, the MBP I have now doesn't have that port and I don't have that adapter.

It was reckless and irresponsible of them to start you down a format without verifying you have the capability to do a restore. That should merit some compensation from Apple to fix your problem, even if it involves sending a genius out to your house. (my opinion)

It's unfortunate that a lot of people on Applecare's line are so quick to leap to the "nuke and pave" solution. Been there, more than once. Very few of them have the necessary skills to troubleshoot and fix anything much out of the ordinary.
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#45646 - 07/10/17 10:36 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: Virtual1]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Right. And I learned a lesson. My gut told me not to do it but then my lack of knowledge told me to do what they say b/c they know best. That won't happen gain! It ain't just the tech, it was also the "senior advisor" who went that route.

Seeing as how I live a good hour away from the Genius Bar, they would never send someone out. Kind of like doctors, no more house calls. frown



Originally Posted By: Virtual1
Originally Posted By: plantsower
OK, so I called Applecare for my email problems. They pretty quickly went right to erase HD and redownload the OS. I didn't want to but they had no other answers.

So, we erased the HD and now I cannot connect to the internet to get to recovery. When I had to do this with my older MBP, I could do recovery after connecting to Ethernet. Of course, the MBP I have now doesn't have that port and I don't have that adapter.

It was reckless and irresponsible of them to start you down a format without verifying you have the capability to do a restore. That should merit some compensation from Apple to fix your problem, even if it involves sending a genius out to your house. (my opinion)

It's unfortunate that a lot of people on Applecare's line are so quick to leap to the "nuke and pave" solution. Been there, more than once. Very few of them have the necessary skills to troubleshoot and fix anything much out of the ordinary.
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MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45651 - 07/10/17 12:55 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
I'm in the process of downloading Sierra to my old MBP. It didn't ask where I wanted it downloaded to, so it could be onto my External Drive or my Internal drive for all I know. Time will tell. A lot of time. Unless there is a place I can look to see where it is downloading to during the download. It's not showing up under the download folder for now. I can see the progress bar on the dock but that's about it.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I didn't know that was possible. Of course, I don't know a lot of things about computers. Stuff that's easy for you and others just throws me off like using my external drive. I don't understand all the ins and outs so I am at a standstill.

I am going to try to download Sierra to my old MBP and see what happens.


Originally Posted By: artie
And at any rate, I'll bet that they didn't d/l from the App Store, but from some proprietary source that doesn't even interact with it.

Don't sell yourself short! You're doing pretty good with this "stuff", but since you're not dealing with it constantly it's not fresh in your mind, so it's daunting, not to mention that I imagine that you're still in shock over what you've just been through with not just one computer, but THREE of them.

The Geniuses have access to diagnostic tools and other resources that we mere mortals don't even know exist until we see them in use. (I'll bet it didn't take hir very long to install Sierra on your MBP.)

In theory, your Sierra d/l should successfully overwrite whatever's on your old MBP's HDD and leave it with a functional installation.

GOOD LUCK! smile

More: Since you'll be initiating your Sierra d/l from a Mavericks volume, I think it will be offered to you in your "Purchased" tab, and if it is, click on the offer, and it should remain in the tab for future d/l.
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iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45652 - 07/10/17 01:18 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I'm in the process of downloading Sierra to my old MBP. It didn't ask where I wanted it downloaded to, so it could be onto my External Drive or my Internal drive for all I know. Time will tell. A lot of time. Unless there is a place I can look to see where it is downloading to during the download. It's not showing up under the download folder for now. I can see the progress bar on the dock but that's about it.

It can only be on your boot volume, i.e. your external; take a look in /Library/Updates.

Don't worry about where it is, though, because when the d/l completes it will automatically open Installer. (If you either click and hold or control-click[?] on the d/l's Dock icon I think you'll be able to see where it's going.)
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In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45653 - 07/10/17 01:31 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Clicking on it either way does nothing. The first time I control clicked it awhile back it made it pause. I then control clicked again and it resumed. But this time nothing happens. I thought this was going to be the way I got it onto my internal drive. I thought it was going to ask me where I wanted it and I was going to pick my HDD. Darn it, anyway. I don't need it on my external drive.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I'm in the process of downloading Sierra to my old MBP. It didn't ask where I wanted it downloaded to, so it could be onto my External Drive or my Internal drive for all I know. Time will tell. A lot of time. Unless there is a place I can look to see where it is downloading to during the download. It's not showing up under the download folder for now. I can see the progress bar on the dock but that's about it.

It can only be on your boot volume, i.e. your external; take a look in /Library/Updates.

Don't worry about where it is, though, because when the d/l completes it will automatically open Installer. (If you either click and hold or control-click[?] on the d/l's Dock icon I think you'll be able to see where it's going.)
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iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45654 - 07/10/17 01:42 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Clicking on it either way does nothing. .... I thought it was going to ask me where I wanted it and I was going to pick my HDD. Darn it, anyway. I don't need it on my external drive.

I spaced out about the d/l's correct location; it should be in your Apps folder.

You're not d/l'ing the OS, only the Sierrainstaller.app (or some-such), and when the d/l completes, Installer will open it automatically and give you your option of which volume you want to install Sierra on, and your MBP's internal HDD should be one of them.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45655 - 07/10/17 02:01 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
It's showing in my apps folder. Last time it took about 14 hours to d/l so it will be awhile before I can do anything with it. Probably tomorrow. Whew, glad it's only the installer and I have a choice as to where to put it. I'll relax now, sorta.


I forgot about the d/l's correct location for the moment; it should be in your Apps folder.

You're not d/l'ing the OS, only the Sierrainstaller.app (or some-such), and when the d/l completes, Installer will open it automatically and give you your option of which volume you want to install Sierra on, and your MBP's internal HDD should be one of them. [/quote]
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iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45658 - 07/11/17 10:06 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
OK, it's done!!! I am typing on my old MBP via the HDD!! It's still kinda slow about it but it is working! Now I need to hook up SuperDuper to my new MBP and see if I can back up Sierra there, oh, and here. I think I would only have to get Sierra on it and then use that with both machines I would imagine. What do you think?

I am only going to use this old one in my office to pay bills, etc., and use the other one to use wherever I want to. So excited!

Thanks for all your time and patient help.


Update: Ok so I'm complaining again but I just tried to get to the library by going to finder-Option-Go and it doesn't work. It works on my new MBP. Any other way to get to that particular library?


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Clicking on it either way does nothing. .... I thought it was going to ask me where I wanted it and I was going to pick my HDD. Darn it, anyway. I don't need it on my external drive.

I spaced out about the d/l's correct location; it should be in your Apps folder.

You're not d/l'ing the OS, only the Sierrainstaller.app (or some-such), and when the d/l completes, Installer will open it automatically and give you your option of which volume you want to install Sierra on, and your MBP's internal HDD should be one of them.


Edited by plantsower (07/11/17 10:10 AM)
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iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45667 - 07/11/17 05:05 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I am typing on my old MBP via the HDD!! It's still kinda slow about it but it is working! Now I need to hook up SuperDuper to my new MBP and see if I can back up Sierra there, oh, and here. I think I would only have to get Sierra on it and then use that with both machines I would imagine. What do you think?

Thanks for all your time and patient help.

Update: Ok so I'm complaining again but I just tried to get to the library by going to finder-Option-Go and it doesn't work. It works on my new MBP. Any other way to get to that particular library?

Whew! That was an ordeal. Thank goodness for the App Store.

Your old MBP probably isn't slow at all, other than by comparison to your new one with its SSD. (Just think how much more quickly your new MBP starts up as compared to your old one.)

joemike recently said "No" to the possibility of a clone of one machine booting the other, so please try, and let us know. (Based on very limited personal experience, I'm inclined to agree with him.)

Command-shift-G works on one MBP but not the other? That's curious. But under any circumstances, I thought /Users/xyz/Library came out of hiding and no longer has to be searched for.


Edited by artie505 (07/11/17 05:11 PM)
Edit Reason: Just think....
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45668 - 07/11/17 05:34 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Uh oh. I was only doing option-G. I tried Command-Shift-G and it worked.How quickly we forget. Ok, me.

Did you read my other post about not being able to get SuperDuper to work? I have an email into S/D. I named my partition (the miscellaneous one) Sierra. Then I am supposed to click on "apply" only there is no "apply" button. This could only happen to me. frown. If I ever get it going, I will let you know how it works with two computers. Otherwise, maybe I can clone my new MBP on a different (another) partition and name it something else containing the word Sierra so I can keep it straight. Maybe best to name if 2015 MBP Sierra so I won't get confused.


Otherwise,
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I am typing on my old MBP via the HDD!! It's still kinda slow about it but it is working! Now I need to hook up SuperDuper to my new MBP and see if I can back up Sierra there, oh, and here. I think I would only have to get Sierra on it and then use that with both machines I would imagine. What do you think?

Thanks for all your time and patient help.

Update: Ok so I'm complaining again but I just tried to get to the library by going to finder-Option-Go and it doesn't work. It works on my new MBP. Any other way to get to that particular library?

Whew! That was an ordeal. Thank goodness for the App Store.

Your old MBP probably isn't slow at all, other than by comparison to your new one with its SSD. (Just think how much more quickly your new MBP starts up as compared to your old one.)

joemike recently said "No" to the possibility of a clone of one machine booting the other, so please try, and let us know. (Based on very limited personal experience, I'm inclined to agree with him.)

Command-shift-G works on one MBP but not the other? That's curious. But under any circumstances, I thought /Users/xyz/Library came out of hiding and no longer has to be searched for.
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iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45670 - 07/11/17 10:05 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Uh oh. I was only doing option-G. I tried Command-Shift-G and it worked.How quickly we forget. Ok, me.

Did you read my other post about not being able to get SuperDuper to work? I have an email into S/D. I named my partition (the miscellaneous one) Sierra. Then I am supposed to click on "apply" only there is no "apply" button. This could only happen to me. frown. If I ever get it going, I will let you know how it works with two computers. Otherwise, maybe I can clone my new MBP on a different (another) partition and name it something else containing the word Sierra so I can keep it straight. Maybe best to name if 2015 MBP Sierra so I won't get confused.

Otherwise,

You also forgot about Finder > Go > Go to Folder..., but as I said, ~/Library should be visible if you navigate to it in Finder; if it's not there, let me know, and I"ll post a Terminal command.

I'll pass on your Super Duper! issue until you've heard from tech support, and if they don't resolve it I'll d/l it and take a look.

But I've realized that whether one clone will work with both MBPs is moot. Since you're going to use your MBPs for different purposes, you'll want a separate, current clone for each one.

"Otherwise,"...what?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45675 - 07/12/17 08:42 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
I finally got SuperDuper to work. The guy at S/D told me D/U is always changing and pointed me to an article by Apple. Haven't found it yet. But, when I went back to S/D I realized the Apply button wasn't there because my drive was already partitioned from before. That was just for prepping the drive. I was reading instructions for a new drive.

I don't see why I couldn't make a 4th partition and name it MBP 2015 Sierra. I don't want to buy another drive. And I still don't get why I can't use the same partition and same Sierra clone for both Macs. I need an explanation from JoeMike other than, no you can't. I couldn't find his actual post about it.

When I use Go-Go to Folder I can't bring up my third party plugins/extensions. But when I go to Library with the Shift-Command-Go, I can find them all except for the one that went into cyberspace. That one still shows on the extensions in my Safari prefs. I also used EasyFind and found all my extensions except that one. I don't want to spend the rest of my life on it, but I find it odd.



Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Uh oh. I was only doing option-G. I tried Command-Shift-G and it worked.How quickly we forget. Ok, me.

Did you read my other post about not being able to get SuperDuper to work? I have an email into S/D. I named my partition (the miscellaneous one) Sierra. Then I am supposed to click on "apply" only there is no "apply" button. This could only happen to me. frown. If I ever get it going, I will let you know how it works with two computers. Otherwise, maybe I can clone my new MBP on a different (another) partition and name it something else containing the word Sierra so I can keep it straight. Maybe best to name if 2015 MBP Sierra so I won't get confused.

Otherwise,

You also forgot about Finder > Go > Go to Folder..., but as I said, ~/Library should be visible if you navigate to it in Finder; if it's not there, let me know, and I"ll post a Terminal command.

I'll pass on your Super Duper! issue until you've heard from tech support, and if they don't resolve it I'll d/l it and take a look.

But I've realized that whether one clone will work with both MBPs is moot. Since you're going to use your MBPs for different purposes, you'll want a separate, current clone for each one.

"Otherwise,"...what?
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45677 - 07/12/17 10:55 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I don't see why I couldn't make a 4th partition and name it MBP 2015 Sierra. I don't want to buy another drive. And I still don't get why I can't use the same partition and same Sierra clone for both Macs. I need an explanation from JoeMike other than, no you can't. I couldn't find his actual post about it.

The problem is the installer checks the specific system model and only installs kernel extensions (.kext) and other bits parts and pieces that are specific to that particular machine and none other. Therefore the installed drive image will boot ONLY a Mac of that particular model. Whether that image will boot a a different model Mac is a crap shoot. The Recovery Drive image, on the other hand, is very limited but it can boot any Mac compatible with the particular version of MacOS but about all you can do from there is run Disk Utility, recover your system from a Time Machine or other backup, and install MacOS.

Originally Posted By: plantsower
When I use Go-Go to Folder I can't bring up my third party plugins/extensions. But when I go to Library with the Shift-Command-Go, I can find them all except for the one that went into cyberspace.

Since โ‡งโŒ˜G (Shift Command G) is the keyboard command to access the Finder > Go > Go to folder action there should not be any difference between the two. I have no explanation for the difference you are encountering

Originally Posted By: plantsower
...That one still shows on the extensions in my Safari prefs. I also used EasyFind and found all my extensions except that one. I don't want to spend the rest of my life on it, but I find it odd.[/color]

What you see in Safari > Preferences > Extensions reflects the contents of a property list (a.k.a. plist, a.k.a. preference) file named Extensions.plist found in ~/Library/Safari/Extensions (/Users/yourid/Library/Safari/Extensions ) along with the actual .safariextz files themselves. That property list file is updated when you install or uninstall an extension using Safari > Preferences > Extensions. If one of those .safariextz files is removed by you or another app without going through Safari > Preferences > Extensions to do so the property list does not get updated and the extension still be listed in Safari > Preferences > Extensions although there is no executable code behind it. To remove the listing you need to "uninstall" the extension in Safari.
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#45678 - 07/12/17 01:11 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: joemikeb]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
OK. I"m sure that makes sense to somebody. smile. I did read up on it and it said if you use the same external drive to clone let's say an OS and use that same partition on another machine to update the same OS (like Sierra), it creates a mess. So, nuff said. I will make another partition.

I'm thinking somehow my plist or whatever disappeared and it still shows that extension but it's dead like you intimated. I"m going to leave it on there just I case. smile

Thanks for the explanations.


The problem is the installer checks the specific system model and only installs kernel extensions (.kext) and other bits parts and pieces that are specific to that particular machine and none other. Therefore the installed drive image will boot ONLY a Mac of that particular model. Whether that image will boot a a different model Mac is a crap shoot. The Recovery Drive image, on the other hand, is very limited but it can boot any Mac compatible with the particular version of MacOS but about all you can do from there is run Disk Utility, recover your system from a Time Machine or other backup, and install MacOS.

Originally Posted By: plantsower
When I use Go-Go to Folder I can't bring up my third party plugins/extensions. But when I go to Library with the Shift-Command-Go, I can find them all except for the one that went into cyberspace.

Since โ‡งโŒ˜G (Shift Command G) is the keyboard command to access the Finder > Go > Go to folder action there should not be any difference between the two. I have no explanation for the difference you are encountering

Originally Posted By: plantsower
...That one still shows on the extensions in my Safari prefs. I also used EasyFind and found all my extensions except that one. I don't want to spend the rest of my life on it, but I find it odd.[/color]

What you see in Safari > Preferences > Extensions reflects the contents of a property list (a.k.a. plist, a.k.a. preference) file named Extensions.plist found in ~/Library/Safari/Extensions (/Users/yourid/Library/Safari/Extensions ) along with the actual .safariextz files themselves. That property list file is updated when you install or uninstall an extension using Safari > Preferences > Extensions. If one of those .safariextz files is removed by you or another app without going through Safari > Preferences > Extensions to do so the property list does not get updated and the extension still be listed in Safari > Preferences > Extensions although there is no executable code behind it. To remove the listing you need to "uninstall" the extension in Safari. [/quote]
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iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45685 - 07/13/17 05:43 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: joemikeb]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
The problem is the installer checks the specific system model and only installs kernel extensions (.kext) and other bits parts and pieces that are specific to that particular machine and none other. Therefore the installed drive image will boot ONLY a Mac of that particular model. Whether that image will boot a a different model Mac is a crap shoot. The Recovery Drive image, on the other hand, is very limited but it can boot any Mac compatible with the particular version of MacOS but about all you can do from there is run Disk Utility, recover your system from a Time Machine or other backup, and install MacOS.

It's been my experience that the installer on the Recovery partition only installs kexts and libraries that are required by the hardware on the machine. The installer on the app store however, is a full installer that supports all of the macs that the version of software supports, to within a few months of the latest release at least. (so if 10.12 has been out for awhile, and apple releases a new iMac, it may take the app store a month or two to get 10.12 updated to support the new computers) But as long as you're not working with bleeding-edge hardware, the latest os installer on the app store will install a "universal os" that will boot on any supported computer.

I work in a very mixed environment, and have to make sure I get a universal install going for the images that I send to the various machines. Having to keep track of and maintain separate images for separate hardware would be a nightmare. As it is I have six specific load outs, and I don't want to have to multiply those by different hardware. So when we get in new computers the first thing I do is back up the factory install and go to the app store and download and run that to see if it will work on the new computer. (it usually does) If it doesn't, then that machine will require a custom image, at least until the App Store gets updated. Then I can download that and refresh my images to that newer OS so I once again have a small set of images that all work on any hardware on campus.
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