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#45550 - 07/03/17 10:16 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
Yes, you clarified it. I don't completely understand the lingo and the complicated steps but I do get most of it. So, this may be way off base as Artie would say, but does this mean that the external drive I have for my old MBP cannot be used to boot up my new MBP even though it won't have Sierra on it?
Probably not
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
After I get this all settled, I want to have an external drive backup for both of my MBP's. I just don't know if I can use the same one for both machines. It is a terabyte though. I'll never use all that space, at least for now.
If by "backup" you mean a bootable backup image then you are likely going t need a separate Drive for each machine. If you mean a Time Machine backup or a clone then you could easily get by with one drive. Both Time Machine and CCC will clone to a sparseimage bundle so it is entirely possible to have two or more non-bootable images on the same drive.

Originally Posted By: Ask Different
Sparse bundle disk images appear as a single file but are actually stored as a folder with many files inside. This makes it more efficient to back them up using Time Machine or other backup utilities, as only the changed parts need to be copied. Additionally, sparse bundle disk images work well with the Compact Image… command.
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#45551 - 07/03/17 10:44 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: joemikeb]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
I don't know the difference between bootable backup image and cloning, but I use SuperDuper and assume I can use that on both machines with one external drive as with CCC.


Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
Yes, you clarified it. I don't completely understand the lingo and the complicated steps but I do get most of it. So, this may be way off base as Artie would say, but does this mean that the external drive I have for my old MBP cannot be used to boot up my new MBP even though it won't have Sierra on it?
Probably not
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
After I get this all settled, I want to have an external drive backup for both of my MBP's. I just don't know if I can use the same one for both machines. It is a terabyte though. I'll never use all that space, at least for now.
If by "backup" you mean a bootable backup image then you are likely going t need a separate Drive for each machine. If you mean a Time Machine backup or a clone then you could easily get by with one drive. Both Time Machine and CCC will clone to a sparseimage bundle so it is entirely possible to have two or more non-bootable images on the same drive.

Originally Posted By: Ask Different
Sparse bundle disk images appear as a single file but are actually stored as a folder with many files inside. This makes it more efficient to back them up using Time Machine or other backup utilities, as only the changed parts need to be copied. Additionally, sparse bundle disk images work well with the Compact Image… command.
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#45555 - 07/03/17 01:15 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
I don't know the difference between bootable backup image and cloning, but I use SuperDuper and assume I can use that on both machines with one external drive as with CCC.

I haven't used SuperDuper since the advent of the Recovery Drive but I would assume it can clone to a sparseimage or preferably sparseimage bundle as CCC does and so you could "clone" multiple computers to a single drive. However just as with CCC, a SuperDuper clone to a sparseimage bundle would not be bootable.

A sparseimage bundle is a superset of sparseimage files and a sparseimage file is a variant type of .dmg file. You have to have MacOS running in order to open and read a .dmg/sparseimage/sparseimage bundle therefore you cannot boot from it.
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#45557 - 07/03/17 01:18 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: joemikeb]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
I definitely want a bootable disk. The only reason I am talking to you now is because I had a bootable external HD of my OS for my older MBP. Otherwise I would have really been up a creek.


Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
I don't know the difference between bootable backup image and cloning, but I use SuperDuper and assume I can use that on both machines with one external drive as with CCC.

I haven't used SuperDuper since the advent of the Recovery Drive but I would assume it can clone to a sparseimage or preferably sparseimage bundle as CCC does and so you could "clone" multiple computers to a single drive. However just as with CCC, a SuperDuper clone to a sparseimage bundle would not be bootable.

A sparseimage bundle is a superset of sparseimage files and a sparseimage file is a variant type of .dmg file. You have to have MacOS running in order to open and read a .dmg/sparseimage/sparseimage bundle therefore you cannot boot from it.
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#45563 - 07/03/17 11:43 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Does this make any sense? I found it on the internet regarding connecting to wi-fi in recovery mode:

You could also resolve it by changing the router setup to hand out addresses via DHCP, but that requires admin access to the router, find the router manual & see how you enable DHCP on it.

The ethernet adaptor will also fail if the router is not giving out addresses on the wired LAN.

I don't really get how to do this, but I wonder if it would work.

I did some searching and found this post, which sounds like it supports that:

Originally Posted By: Drew Reece
Internet recovery has limitations on the types of wifi network it will connect to if you have an 'open' network it may not show up…
OS X: About OS X Recovery
If you can use a wired ethernet connection if available.

Rebooting the router may not hurt if you have access to that - but it will affect others on the network for a brief period.

It does sound like your router is setup not to hand out DHCP leases - these are responsible for giving the Mac a local IP address. Nowadays this is non-standard networking setup & will make recovery mode fail. One thing you could do is share the internet connection from your friends Mac, but that would require a cable between the two computers. At least then his Mac would run DHCP & give your Mac an IP address to make internet routing work.

This covers how to share an Internet connection assuming you have the required cable & adaptor.
http://osxdaily.com/2012/01/05/enable-internet-sharing-mac-os-x/

You could also resolve it by changing the router setup to hand out addresses via DHCP, but that requires admin access to the router, find the router manual & see how you enable DHCP on it.

The ethernet adaptor will also fail if the router is not giving out addresses on the wired LAN.

But didn't you complete an internet recovery, albeit a failed one, on your old MBP earlier?

I also found Wifi not accessible in Recovery Mode, which proposes a Terminal solution that's completely beyond my experience, although someone else will probably be able to explain it.
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#45564 - 07/04/17 12:19 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I definitely want a bootable disk. The only reason I am talking to you now is because I had a bootable external HD of my OS for my older MBP. Otherwise I would have really been up a creek.

You can partition your 1TB external drive into as many partitions as you like and use one for a bootable clone of your new MBP, one for a bootable clone of your old MBP, one for Time Machine, and n others for data, reserve, etc.

Before you set it in stone, though, give careful consideration to the sizes of of the various partitions so you don't get caught short down the road.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45568 - 07/04/17 10:07 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Yes, it failed. I think that's why I hooked up to my external drive and will try to transfer mavericks back to my MBP once I get this all figured out with my new machine. I do know that when I hooked up to ethernet on my old MBP I had success doing the hardware test which I couldn't do otherwise.

The bottom link you gave me gave me this error: The page you tried was not found. Update: Tried it again and it worked! Whatever...:(

Update: I don't mind trying to use terminal but I don't know how I would even get to terminal when I can't get anywhere anyway.


But didn't you complete an internet recovery, albeit a failed one, on your old MBP earlier?

I also found Wifi not accessible in Recovery Mode, which proposes a Terminal solution that's completely beyond my experience, although someone else will probably be able to explain it. [/quote]


Edited by plantsower (07/04/17 10:11 AM)
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#45581 - 07/06/17 12:10 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I don't mind trying to use terminal but I don't know how I would even get to terminal when I can't get anywhere anyway.

Before I spend time posting instructions, do you really want to give Terminal a shot (It's not terribly complicated.), or, on the other hand, have you got your adapter already?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45583 - 07/06/17 07:52 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
I got the adapter and it's working because all the lights work. I guess that a sign it's working anyway. I can't get past the flashing question mark. I have an appt. today to see what can be done. I was surprised I couldn't even get on the internet with the ethernet, but maybe that's how it is when your whole HD is erased.



Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I don't mind trying to use terminal but I don't know how I would even get to terminal when I can't get anywhere anyway.

Before I spend time posting instructions, do you really want to give Terminal a shot (It's not terribly complicated.), or, on the other hand, have you got your adapter already?
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#45584 - 07/06/17 08:38 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I got the adapter and it's working because all the lights work. I guess that a sign it's working anyway. I can't get past the flashing question mark. I have an appt. today to see what can be done. I was surprised I couldn't even get on the internet with the ethernet, but maybe that's how it is when your whole HD is erased

Since Apple stopped shipping install discs, OS X/macOS have been designed, of necessity, to enable us to reinstall even if our drives get trashed and replaced, so I'm really curious to hear what the Genius has to say about why you can't connect to the internet.

I tried the Terminal command, and it worked for me, but I wonder if it would work in your situation.

Got my fingers crossed for you and both of your MBPs .
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45585 - 07/06/17 09:04 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Thanks, Artie. I'll let you know what happens.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I got the adapter and it's working because all the lights work. I guess that a sign it's working anyway. I can't get past the flashing question mark. I have an appt. today to see what can be done. I was surprised I couldn't even get on the internet with the ethernet, but maybe that's how it is when your whole HD is erased

Since Apple stopped shipping install discs, OS X/macOS have been designed, of necessity, to enable us to reinstall even if our drives get trashed and replaced, so I'm really curious to hear what the Genius has to say about why you can't connect to the internet.

I tried the Terminal command, and it worked for me, but I wonder if it would work in your situation.

Got my fingers crossed for you and both of your MBPs .
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#45588 - 07/06/17 07:49 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Went to the Apple Store. I was told I should have been able to get to recovery mode from home and they had no idea why I couldn't. I know you knew that. All new software was downloaded and it's working perfectly. It's even faster than it was before. (Remember how I said it was slower than my old MBP when I first got it?). I just wonder if someone just did a sloppy refurbishing job the first time. I didn't have the latest version of Sierra when I first got it and had to download the update. This time that is what was put on my machine at the Apple Store. The only new update since the new software download today is for Remote Desk Client. I don't even know what that is. Do I need it? If not, I'm letting it be.

After I'm sure things are stable, I will be back for my step-by-step instructions of cloning Mavericks via SuperDuper onto another partition of my external drive before I erase the other one and put it on my old MBP HD.

Then I need to figure out how to use my same external drive for my new machine. I don't want to buy a new one if I don't need to. It has plenty of memory (1 T).




I checked my email behavior and it's working perfectly also.
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I got the adapter and it's working because all the lights work. I guess that a sign it's working anyway. I can't get past the flashing question mark. I have an appt. today to see what can be done. I was surprised I couldn't even get on the internet with the ethernet, but maybe that's how it is when your whole HD is erased

Since Apple stopped shipping install discs, OS X/macOS have been designed, of necessity, to enable us to reinstall even if our drives get trashed and replaced, so I'm really curious to hear what the Genius has to say about why you can't connect to the internet.

I tried the Terminal command, and it worked for me, but I wonder if it would work in your situation.

Got my fingers crossed for you and both of your MBPs .
_________________________
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iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45591 - 07/06/17 11:05 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
All new software was downloaded and it's working perfectly. I just wonder if someone just did a sloppy refurbishing job the first time.

I didn't have the latest version of Sierra when I first got it and had to download the update.

The only new update since the new software download today is for Remote Desk Client. I don't even know what that is. Do I need it? If not, I'm letting it be.

After I'm sure things are stable, I will be back for my step-by-step instructions of cloning Mavericks via SuperDuper onto another partition of my external drive before I erase the other one and put it on my old MBP HD.

Then I need to figure out how to use my same external drive for my new machine. I don't want to buy a new one if I don't need to. It has plenty of memory (1 T).

I doubt that the refurbishing job, itself, was at the root of your problems; I'll opt for an unlucky macOS installation.

macOS 10.12.5 was released on May 15th; I guess it wasn't pre-installed on your new MBP because of timing.

You don't need the Apple Remote Desktop update, so you can skip it if you like. (As far as I know, Apple no longer gives us the option to hide unwanted updates, so I install them just to be done with them.)

I thought you'd take your old MBP to the Apple Store and have them reinstall Mavericks for you; didn't it go bad in the process of doing just that in the first place?

I'm not exactly sure what you're proposing to do with your old MBP and external, but when you're up to speed with your new MBP we can deal with them.

Under any circumstances, though, there shouldn't be any need for you to buy a new external drive; your 1 TB should more than suffice.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45594 - 07/07/17 07:30 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
I didn't take in my old MBP b/c it's no longer covered by AppleCare. Maybe they would have thrown that in for me but I never thought of that. I assumed they would charge me.

As far as what I want to do with the external on my old MBP, you probably forgot our conversation about it though you do seem to have a good memory for past posts. smile. I'll bring it all up again when the time comes b/c I don't want to make a mistake and end up with only one computer again.

By unlucky OS installation, do you mean things can go wrong with a download and need to be redone?


I doubt that the refurbishing job, itself, was at the root of your problems; I'll opt for an unlucky macOS installation.

macOS 10.12.5 was released on May 15th; I guess it wasn't pre-installed on your new MBP because of timing.


I thought you'd take your old MBP to the Apple Store and have them reinstall Mavericks for you; didn't it go bad in the process of doing just that in the first place?

I'm not exactly sure what you're proposing to do with your old MBP and external, but when you're up to speed with your new MBP we can deal with them.

Under any circumstances, though, there shouldn't be any need for you to buy a new external drive; your 1 TB should more than suffice. [/quote]
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#45603 - 07/07/17 11:12 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I didn't take in my old MBP b/c it's no longer covered by AppleCare. Maybe they would have thrown that in for me but I never thought of that. I assumed they would charge me.

As far as what I want to do with the external on my old MBP, you probably forgot our conversation about it though you do seem to have a good memory for past posts. smile. I'll bring it all up again when the time comes b/c I don't want to make a mistake and end up with only one computer again.

By unlucky OS installation, do you mean things can go wrong with a download and need to be redone?

Oops!!! You missed my "I've got my fingers crossed for both of your MBPs."

Specific instance: Apple discontinued install discs secure in the knowledge that everybody in the entire world has access to high-speed internet, but just on the very outside chance that there might be a handful of people in some obscure corner who haven't got it, they provided these helpful options:
  • imposing on a friend,
  • imposing on your boss,
  • imposing on a neighbor,
  • imposing on a relative,
  • aaand just in case none of those options is viable, bringing your Mac to an Apple Store.
And the bottom line of all that is since you couldn't connect to the internet they'd have installed an OS on your old MBP at no charge.

In general: From all accounts, the Geniuses are very accommodating (They've given me two new batteries for out-of-warrantee Macs.), and assuming that they WON'T do something can be a BAD mistake. Give them a chance; you can always say no if they want to charge you more than you're willing to spend.

As for your old MBP, yeah, I remember what you want to do, but I'm still wondering why you want to perpetuate an old OS rather than keep it up to speed.

Things absolutely can go wrong with an OS installation, particularly a d/l, and it's most likely that your problems with your new MBP resulted from a bad install, as your current problem with your old MBP certainly did.

And also as for your old MBP, I realized that we've been obsessing with getting into it through the back door and have overlooked the fact that there may be a front door, so here you go:
  1. Boot your MBP from your external.
  2. Navigate to the App Store.
  3. Click on the "Purchased" tab.
  4. Enter your Apple ID and password.
If you're lucky, Mavericks will be listed with an appended "Download" button, and since you'll already be connected to the internet you'll be able to download it, select "Macintosh Hard Drive" (or whatever it's called on your old MBP) as your destination volume, and install it with no problems.

If you do get lucky, I suggest that you launch /Apps/Utilities/Disk Utility and erase your old MBP's HDD before you install the new OS.

More: I'd erase the second line, your boot volume, rather than the top line, your entire HDD.


Edited by artie505 (07/07/17 11:53 PM)
Edit Reason: More
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45611 - 07/08/17 08:31 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
I didn't miss your crossing fingers statement, I misinterpreted it. I don't remember you saying I should bring it to the Apple Store so I thought you meant you hoped that what I did to reinstall Mavericks onto my hard drive worked.

A Mac tech once told me on the phone that I could call after AppleCare expired and still get free help, depending on the tech I got. I didn't have the nerve to do that considering everything I need help for takes a lot of time.

The customer I sat next to when at the Apple Store did experience that, though. he had a problem and had come in two weeks in a row. The tech told him they figured out it was the power cord and they would give it to him for free! Nice.

When going over your steps to install a new OS I got a little confused.

First, I am not married to Mavericks. So, if there is another version or even Sierra available, I will download that.

1. I understand that I attach my external hard drive (already attached).
2. Go to App Store and blah blah blah and get to the OX I want.
3. Download the OS to my internal hard drive
The part that confused me was
If you do get lucky, I suggest that you launch /Apps/Utilities/Disk Utility and erase your old MBP's HDD before you install the new OS.

Do you mean download the OS but don't install it until I know it's completely downloaded? I still won't know if I got lucky and it was a good d/l. Plus when I d/l the new OS don't I have to pick where I want it to download first. If so, erasing the HD afterward erases the OS. I know I'm missing something.

Then I erase the Mac HD and THEN install the new OS?

Also, this line didn't show the image. But, in Mavericks there is no second line. The Disk Utility looks very different. But if I install Sierra then it WILL look like the one your are describing I am assuming.




Oops!!! You missed my "I've got my fingers crossed for both of your MBPs."

Specific instance: Apple discontinued install discs secure in the knowledge that everybody in the entire world has access to high-speed internet, but just on the very outside chance that there might be a handful of people in some obscure corner who haven't got it, they provided these helpful options:
  • imposing on a friend,
  • imposing on your boss,
  • imposing on a neighbor,
  • imposing on a relative,
  • aaand just in case none of those options is viable, bringing your Mac to an Apple Store.
And the bottom line of all that is since you couldn't connect to the internet they'd have installed an OS on your old MBP at no charge.

In general: From all accounts, the Geniuses are very accommodating (They've given me two new batteries for out-of-warrantee Macs.), and assuming that they WON'T do something can be a BAD mistake. Give them a chance; you can always say no if they want to charge you more than you're willing to spend.

As for your old MBP, yeah, I remember what you want to do, but I'm still wondering why you want to perpetuate an old OS rather than keep it up to speed.

Things absolutely can go wrong with an OS installation, particularly a d/l, and it's most likely that your problems with your new MBP resulted from a bad install, as your current problem with your old MBP certainly did.

And also as for your old MBP, I realized that we've been obsessing with getting into it through the back door and have overlooked the fact that there may be a front door, so here you go:
  1. Boot your MBP from your external.
  2. Navigate to the App Store.
  3. Click on the "Purchased" tab.
  4. Enter your Apple ID and password.
If you're lucky, Mavericks will be listed with an appended "Download" button, and since you'll already be connected to the internet you'll be able to download it, select "Macintosh Hard Drive" (or whatever it's called on your old MBP) as your destination volume, and install it with no problems.

If you do get lucky, I suggest that you launch /Apps/Utilities/Disk Utility and erase your old MBP's HDD before you install the new OS.

More: I'd erase the second line, your boot volume, rather than the top line, your entire HDD. [/quote]
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#45616 - 07/08/17 08:25 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I didn't miss your crossing fingers statement, I misinterpreted it. I don't remember you saying I should bring it to the Apple Store so I thought you meant you hoped that what I did to reinstall Mavericks onto my hard drive worked.

First, I am not married to Mavericks. So, if there is another version or even Sierra available, I will download that.

The part that confused me was If you do get lucky, I suggest that you launch /Apps/Utilities/Disk Utility and erase your old MBP's HDD before you install the new OS.

Also, this line didn't show the image. But, in Mavericks there is no second line. The Disk Utility looks very different.

My bad for not being specific; I assumed that you'd bring your old MBP to the Apple Store on a lark, if nothing else, since you were going anyhow.

By "If you do get lucky...." I meant if you find Mavericks in your "Purchased" tab, because it's not necessarily there. (You've mentioned Mavericks so many times that I thought you wanted to stick with it.)

Sierra is available (free) from the App Store, so log in, d/l it, and choose to install it your old MBP's HDD. (It will d/l to your your boot volume, i.e. your external HDD, and Installer will offer you all connected volumes including your old MBP's HDD as installation options.)

You should erase your old MBP's HDD before you before you install, but I"m confused about what you're seeing in Disk Utility, so please post a screenshot.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45617 - 07/08/17 09:22 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Disk utility in Mavericks looks a whole lot different than in Sierra, that's all.

So, when you say erase the HDD you mean my boot volume only, right? Because if I erase the HDD, I'm in the same pickle I was before with no way to get to the internet.

I don't particularly want to erase my external drive, just maybe get Lion and Mt. Lion off. Keep Mavericks on just I case.

I looked under Purchased Items in the App Store and Mavericks is still there. I may or may not download that. I didn't realize I couldn't get Yosemite or El Capitan unless I had it before. That's weird to me.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I didn't miss your crossing fingers statement, I misinterpreted it. I don't remember you saying I should bring it to the Apple Store so I thought you meant you hoped that what I did to reinstall Mavericks onto my hard drive worked.

First, I am not married to Mavericks. So, if there is another version or even Sierra available, I will download that.

The part that confused me was If you do get lucky, I suggest that you launch /Apps/Utilities/Disk Utility and erase your old MBP's HDD before you install the new OS.

Also, this line didn't show the image. But, in Mavericks there is no second line. The Disk Utility looks very different.

My bad for not being specific; I assumed that you'd bring your old MBP to the Apple Store on a lark, if nothing else, since you were going anyhow.

By "If you do get lucky...." I meant if you find Mavericks in your "Purchased" tab, because it's not necessarily there. (You've mentioned Mavericks so many times that I thought you wanted to stick with it.)

Sierra is available (free) from the App Store, so log in, d/l it, and choose to install it your old MBP's HDD. (It will d/l to your your boot volume, i.e. your external HDD, and Installer will offer you all connected volumes including your old MBP's HDD as installation options.)

You should erase your old MBP's HDD before you before you install, but I'm confused about what you're seeing in Disk Utility, so please post a screenshot.
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45618 - 07/08/17 10:15 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
So, when you say erase the HDD you mean my boot volume only, right? Because if I erase the HDD, I'm in the same pickle I was before with no way to get to the internet.

I don't particularly want to erase my external drive, just maybe get Lion and Mt. Lion off. Keep Mavericks on just I case.

I looked under Purchased Items in the App Store and Mavericks is still there. I may or may not download that. I didn't realize I couldn't get Yosemite or El Capitan unless I had it before. That's weird to me.

You can always get to the internet...even if you erase your entire drive or replace it; it's part of the apparatus Apple has provided in lieu of install discs. If the boot process can't find a volume to boot into it defaults to the internet. Your problem was that your MBPs were unable to join a network, which had nothing to do with what was or wasn't on their drives.

Thinking about it, it doesn't matter if you erase your entire drive or just your boot volume; a complete erasure will take your recovery partition with it, but you'll get a new one along with whichever OS you d/l.

You ought to give some thought to what you want on your external, i.e. how many partitions you'll need and how big each one should be, so you won't get caught short down the road. Once you set your scheme, changing it isn't easy and may even be impossible without erasing your entire drive. You've got a golden opportunity to start from scratch without losing any data; I suggest that you take advantage of it.

As for keeping Mavericks, you've complained about the state of your current installation, so if you really want it, why not erase it after you get all your data off of it, and then install a fresh d/l from the App Store?

The App Store doesn't offer interim upgrades because Apple wants everyone to be current; that's part of why there's a thriving market for installers on eBay.

More: If you d/l Sierra, log in to the App Store first, so it gets to your "Purchased" tab (not that I had any luck).


Edited by artie505 (07/09/17 04:43 AM)
Edit Reason: More
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45621 - 07/09/17 08:19 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Sorry, but I am so skittish about erasing anything until I get what I want on my external and internal drives and I just don't want to do it. It was going to Disk Utility and erasing my HD the first time that caused me a problem. I just can't. Perhaps if I had an Apple Store close by I might take a chance but....I don't.

I really dislike dealing with d/l of OS's. It's been so long since I partitioned my external drive and put something on it that I can't remember how. I think I just want Sierra on it and Sierra on my internal drive for now.

I looked under "Purchased" again and there is Mt. Lion and Mavericks but Sierra isn't there. I can only find it on the App Store.


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
So, when you say erase the HDD you mean my boot volume only, right? Because if I erase the HDD, I'm in the same pickle I was before with no way to get to the internet.

I don't particularly want to erase my external drive, just maybe get Lion and Mt. Lion off. Keep Mavericks on just I case.

I looked under Purchased Items in the App Store and Mavericks is still there. I may or may not download that. I didn't realize I couldn't get Yosemite or El Capitan unless I had it before. That's weird to me.

You can always get to the internet...even if you erase your entire drive or replace it; it's part of the apparatus Apple has provided in lieu of install discs. If the boot process can't find a volume to boot into it defaults to the internet. Your problem was that your MBPs were unable to join a network, which had nothing to do with what was or wasn't on their drives.

Thinking about it, it doesn't matter if you erase your entire drive or just your boot volume; a complete erasure will take your recovery partition with it, but you'll get a new one along with whichever OS you d/l.

You ought to give some thought to what you want on your external, i.e. how many partitions you'll need and how big each one should be, so you won't get caught short down the road. Once you set your scheme, changing it isn't easy and may even be impossible without erasing your entire drive. You've got a golden opportunity to start from scratch without losing any data; I suggest that you take advantage of it.

As for keeping Mavericks, you've complained about the state of your current installation, so if you really want it, why not erase it after you get all your data off of it, and then install a fresh d/l from the App Store?

The App Store doesn't offer interim upgrades because Apple wants everyone to be current; that's part of why there's a thriving market for installers on eBay.

More: If you d/l Sierra, log in to the App Store first, so it gets to your "Purchased" tab (not that I had any luck).
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45622 - 07/09/17 09:00 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
You won't find Sierra in your "Purchased" tab until after you've d/l'ed it; just having it on your new MBP doesn't count.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45626 - 07/09/17 10:09 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Well, they downloaded it at the Apple Store. I guess that doesn't count.

Originally Posted By: artie505
You won't find Sierra in your "Purchased" tab until after you've d/l'ed it; just having it on your new MBP doesn't count.
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45627 - 07/09/17 10:13 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Well, they downloaded it at the Apple Store. I guess that doesn't count.

Originally Posted By: artie505
You won't find Sierra in your "Purchased" tab until after you've d/l'ed it; just having it on your new MBP doesn't count.

Did they log you into the App Store before they did the d/l?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#45628 - 07/09/17 10:37 AM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
I can't remember for sure, but I don't think so. I named my Computer, etc. but I probably couldn't have remembered the password to it anyway. I always have to look it up and I didn't bring it with me. So, probably not.


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Well, they downloaded it at the Apple Store. I guess that doesn't count.

Originally Posted By: artie505
You won't find Sierra in your "Purchased" tab until after you've d/l'ed it; just having it on your new MBP doesn't count.

Did they log you into the App Store before they did the d/l?
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#45630 - 07/09/17 05:16 PM Re: Cables, Cables, Cables [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Originally Posted By: artie505
You won't find Sierra in your "Purchased" tab until after you've d/l'ed it; just having it on your new MBP doesn't count.

Originally Posted By: plantsower
Well, they downloaded it at the Apple Store. I guess that doesn't count.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Did they log you into the App Store before they did the d/l?

Originally Posted By: plantsower
I can't remember for sure, but I don't think so. I named my Computer, etc. but I probably couldn't have remembered the password to it anyway. I always have to look it up and I didn't bring it with me. So, probably not.

Having given it some thought, you couldn't have been logged in to the App Store, because your MBP wasn't booted into a bootable volume when they did the d/l.

Putting some pieces together, I come up with an OS upgrade not appearing in your "Purchased" tab unless you d/l it not just while you're logged in to the App Store, but when it's offered to you as a d/l BY the App Store, as well (which explains Sierra's not appearing in my tab).

And at any rate, I'll bet that they didn't d/l from the App Store, but from some proprietary source that doesn't even interact with it.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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