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If Apple Listened to Users….
#45169 06/15/17 02:10 PM
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There are numerous threads here on FineTunedMac bewailing Apple's design decisions, "…if Apple would only do it my way…", or "why doesn't Apple listen to users like me?" I just ran across this MacRumors article quoting snippets from an upcoming Bloomberg Businessweek interview with Tim Cook. One of Tim's remarks struck me as particularly apropos to a discussion of why Apple does or does not listen to user's.
Originally Posted By: Tim Cook
If you remember when the iPod was introduced, a lot of people said, “We have a pretty good track record of giving people something that they may not have known that they wanted.
While this was in the context of a question about the price of Apple's forthcoming HomePod it struck me as a succinct statement of Apple's product development philosophy.

Last edited by joemikeb; 06/15/17 02:16 PM. Reason: fix link

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: If Apple Listened to Users….
joemikeb #45170 06/15/17 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tim Cook
If you remember when the iPod was introduced, a lot of people said, “We have a pretty good track record of giving people something that they may not have known that they wanted.

Paraphrasing a related business rule: "Always push to sell the customer that which they don't yet know they can't live without."

I think cell phones are the current king of that particular hill. Apple also knocks on the opposite door, much to the ire of many: "Stop supporting anything the customer doesn't need, regardless of whether or not they are aware that they need to discard it and move on." Serial/ADB ports and floppy discs come immediately to mind. I sometimes wonder though if they don't push a little too aggressively on this front. I could see scsi going away when firewire hit the scene, and even firewire has lost support rapidly as of late, but USB A/B seems like it's a bit too soon for my taste.


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Re: If Apple Listened to Users….
Virtual1 #45172 06/15/17 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: Virtual1
I sometimes wonder though if they don't push a little too aggressively on this front. I could see scsi going away when firewire hit the scene, and even firewire has lost support rapidly as of late, but USB A/B seems like it's a bit too soon for my taste.
Maybe, but moving to a common I/O port configuration (USB C/Thunderbolt 3) that supports multiple high speed/bandwidth protocols seems to me a very rational solution to the constantly multiplying number of external I/O ports.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: If Apple Listened to Users….
joemikeb #45192 06/16/17 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
I just ran across this MacRumors article quoting snippets from an upcoming Bloomberg Businessweek interview with Tim Cook. One of Tim's remarks struck me as particularly apropos to a discussion of why Apple does or does not listen to users.
Originally Posted By: Tim Cook
If you remember when the iPod was introduced, a lot of people said, “We have a pretty good track record of giving people something that they may not have known that they wanted."

I would argue that Mr. Cook is wrong where the iPod is concerned. As I recall, it was a case of Steve Jobs doing what any successful business person does - he will look at the market to see what people do want, but can't get, and satisfy that desire with the right product(s).

At the time the iPod came out there were plenty of MP3 players available but there was a major problem with all of them. The manufacturers had tacked on all sorts of functions unrelated to music playback. This meant the existing players were all complex and difficult to use.

What the people wanted: Give me a player that just plays back my music without technical grief and does a good job of it.

What the people got: The iPod

Also, at the time, people could not get music to their MP3 players legally. There were various download sites where music was available but it all contravened copyright and downloaders lived under the constant threat of criminal action.

What the people wanted: The ability to acquire the music they wanted (not buying an entire album to get only two good cuts) and they wanted to do it without paying an arm and a leg.

What the people got: iTunes

So, it was not Apple ".... giving people something that they may not have known that they wanted". It was Steve Jobs realizing exactly what the people wanted and giving it to them. I think Mr. Cook would be well-advised to pay some attention to what the people want.

Last edited by ryck; 06/16/17 08:42 AM.

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Re: If Apple Listened to Users….
joemikeb #45194 06/16/17 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
There are numerous threads here on FineTunedMac bewailing Apple's design decisions, "…if Apple would only do it my way…", or "why doesn't Apple listen to users like me?" I just ran across this MacRumors article quoting snippets from an upcoming Bloomberg Businessweek interview with Tim Cook. One of Tim's remarks struck me as particularly apropos to a discussion of why Apple does or does not listen to user's.
Originally Posted By: Tim Cook
If you remember when the iPod was introduced, a lot of people said, “We have a pretty good track record of giving people something that they may not have known that they wanted.
While this was in the context of a question about the price of Apple's forthcoming HomePod it struck me as a succinct statement of Apple's product development philosophy.

ryck just expressed my thoughts about the iPod far better than I could have done, and I'll add that under any circumstances, that's a self-serving philosophy that's good only as long as its end-product is successful.


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: If Apple Listened to Users….
artie505 #45207 06/16/17 10:56 PM
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Not everything Apple has tried has been successful. The classic example being the Newton, a product that was ahead of its time and the technology necessary to make it a success. However, the lessons learned from the Newton and the advance of technology allowed a modified concept to re-surface as the iOS eco-system and turn a financially struggling Apple into a Trillion Dollar world wide enterprise. Whether you consider that a success or not is, of course, in the eye of the beholder.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: If Apple Listened to Users….
joemikeb #45209 06/16/17 11:23 PM
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I can't make light of Apple's astonishing success, but your view is too narrow. Their well hasn't been especially productive lately...their development philosophy simply hasn't been the cornucopia that Tim Cook has presented it as.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: If Apple Listened to Users….
joemikeb #45387 06/26/17 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Not everything Apple has tried has been successful.


There are some web sites that discuss ALL of Apple's products over the years. Some fun ones:

- Laser Printer (one of the first consumer available) Very Steampunk, very heavy. belts, chains, OIL PAN. Got to work on a few.
- several inkjet printers (VERY popular, we were still getting requests for ink in 1997)
- Apple Phone (yes PHONE, go look it up, not produced)
- Apple Joystick - I doubt I will ever encounter a better joystick.
- Apple Personal Modem
- Macintosh TV (no, I don't mean AppleTV....)
- iMac Mouse (the round mouse everyone loved to hate)
- Apple ///
- Lisa

there are some others too. my personal favorite is the 20th anniversary edition macintosh. WITH MATCHING BACKPACK and matching black keyboard & mouse. I got to see one of those in mint condition, in its backpack. It was epic. And it still worked. (it was in for a data transfer to a new mac! had to break out the SCSI gear)


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Re: If Apple Listened to Users….
artie505 #45459 06/29/17 01:34 PM
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Whatever your personal assessment of Apple's current product strategy this Macrumors article reports on a study that indicates Windows users think Apple is moving in exactly the right direction. Apparently 25% of them plan to switch to a Mac in the next six months and only 2% of Mac users are considering switching to a PC.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: If Apple Listened to Users….
joemikeb #45473 06/30/17 08:15 AM
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That's an astonishing statistic (except for the 2% part)! (I hope they poll the respondents again in 6 months.)

But while I guess it indicates that "Windows users think Apple is moving in exactly the right direction", it gives no indication of what that direction is, and Macs, particularly because of their evolving stability, security, and connectivity, have got an awful lot of appeal to long-suffering Windows users for reasons that could induce them to overlook design deficiencies.

And don't forget that new MBP owners are buying into the product of a devolution that existing owners have lived suffered through and have a totally different perspective on the newest machines than we do.

I, too, think that Apple is going in the right direction, just not in terms of MBP design.

Just a note that OWC's DEC, which was supposed to hit the market during the spring hasn't yet.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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