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#4257 - 09/23/09 01:13 PM More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1
artiste212 Offline


Registered: 09/05/09
Since updating 10.6 to 10.6.1, I've now seen several new warnings from Disk Utility Repair Permissions, to the effect of "ACL found but not expected at /private/var/xxx "

Although Disk Utility says it has repaired the ACLs on these, it has not actually done so. The next time, it finds the same errors again.

These are in addition to the SUID errors that came with the original 10.6.

Is it worth removing these ACLs manually? Or just let them be?

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#4261 - 09/23/09 02:34 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: artiste212]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
ACLs on what?
SUID on what?
Post the report.

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#4285 - 09/24/09 11:42 AM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: Hal Itosis]
artiste212 Offline


Registered: 09/05/09
OK, after I get home and re-run the Repair Permissions, I'll post the report.

BTW, anybody ever tell you there's a bug in your sig?

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#4319 - 09/24/09 08:59 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: artiste212]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
This thread should answer your questions (you need Mac Pilot http://www.koingosw.com/products/macpilot.php):
http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/os-x-op...ons-repair.html
I did not experience any ACL issues with perm repair, either in 10.6 or 10.6.1, on three different laptops. However, all of them have the same two SUID warnings that are most probably OS glitches and may go away with OS updates. The consensus is to disregard them.


Edited by macnerd10 (09/24/09 09:00 PM)
_________________________
Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

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#4320 - 09/24/09 09:26 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: macnerd10]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: macnerd10
The consensus is to disregard them.

Disregard meaning: they're safe to ignore because no actual problems exist?... or, disregard meaning: we should overlook (yet again) how this state-of-the-art-sloppy operating system still can't get Disk Utility and Software Update and Installer to play ball like professionals?

<grumble,grumble>

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#4322 - 09/24/09 11:12 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: Hal Itosis]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
I guess it stands for "safely ignore" because (nearly) everyone is having the same; either one of the two, or both (my case).


Edited by macnerd10 (09/24/09 11:13 PM)
_________________________
Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

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#4347 - 09/25/09 06:10 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: macnerd10]
artiste212 Offline


Registered: 09/05/09
This is from the console log for the last time I ran Disk Util repair permissions:
2009-09-23 02:05:05 -0400: Warning: SUID file "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent" has been modified and will not be repaired.
2009-09-23 02:09:19 -0400: Warning: SUID file "System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DesktopServicesPriv.framework/Versions/A/Resources/Locum" has been modified and will not be repaired.
2009-09-23 02:10:02 -0400: ACL found but not expected on "private/var/root".
2009-09-23 02:10:02 -0400: Repaired "private/var/root".
2009-09-23 02:10:02 -0400: ACL found but not expected on "private/var/root/Library".
2009-09-23 02:10:02 -0400: Repaired "private/var/root/Library".
2009-09-23 02:10:02 -0400: ACL found but not expected on "private/var/root/Library/Preferences".
2009-09-23 02:10:02 -0400: Repaired "private/var/root/Library/Preferences".

This is the second consecutive run of Disk Util, so apparently the ACLs are not actually repaired when they are reported to be.

So the question is, should I remove those ACLs? Or just accept that even Snow Leopard has not fixed bad reporting in Disk Utility?

Thanks to all who have replied so far.

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#4348 - 09/25/09 06:26 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: artiste212]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
The SUID reports are warnings and AFIK common on all OS X 10.6 systems, at least they are on all the ones around here.

I have not personally encountered nor have I seen other reports of your ACLs. My take on those errors since the OS X Public Beta has been to ignore them unless they are causing obvious problems. That has corresponded quite neatly with Apple's advice as well.

As to Disk Utility's reporting, it appears that it is completely accurate but in the case of your ACLs the repair itself is either not "taking" or is not "holding" for some reason, not that Disk Utility report is erroneous.
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#4349 - 09/25/09 07:04 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: joemikeb]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
As to Disk Utility's reporting, it appears that it is completely accurate but in the case of your ACLs the repair itself is either not "taking" or is not "holding" for some reason, not that Disk Utility report is erroneous.

It's still a design problem. Disk Utility could easily check if its repair took by [immediately] reading the ACL back. If it didn't take, Disk Utility should then report that situation (repair failed or something)... not merely report 'Repaired' without knowing. [edit: Wow, is Disk Utility actually repairing some ACLs now? That's new in Snow Leopard.]

Else, Apple could change the 'Repaired' text to read:
"Well, i tried to repair it... but i have no idea if it worked or not (because i didn't recheck those 3 files). Run me again and we'll both find out (after another 5 minutes approximately). Have a nice day."



--


Originally Posted By: artiste212
This is from the console log for the last time I ran Disk Util repair permissions:

Thanks artiste212. Hmm, ACLs in /private... interesting. Sorry, i don't have Snow Leopard yet... because i'd like to provide a better answer. As far as the suid files go, it saddens me that Disk Utility is not getting the proper information somehow. It should never report problems when nothing is actually wrong... because that only increases confusion when folks really are experiencing (unrelated) problems.



Edited by Hal Itosis (09/25/09 07:21 PM)
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 the Mac isn't a machine for the masses any more than red wine is
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#4360 - 09/26/09 01:07 AM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: artiste212]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Looks like you did not try the Mac Pilot solution offered in the link I quoted. Do you find it useful or not? Or just did not have time to look up?


Edited by macnerd10 (09/26/09 12:40 PM)
_________________________
Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

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#4361 - 09/26/09 01:10 AM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: Hal Itosis]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
I hear ye! However, let us admit that perm repair process in SL got better compared to the mess in Leopard.
_________________________
Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

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#4374 - 09/26/09 09:59 AM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: macnerd10]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: macnerd10
I hear ye! However, let us admit that perm repair process in SL got better compared to the mess in Leopard.

That's still unsure as yet, since we only have 10.6.1 to compare with 10.5.8

To be fair... we should wait until Snowy grows a bit, to find out how 10.6.8 behaves.

[i.e., more updates (including QuickTime, Security, etc) means more possible changes.]

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#4378 - 09/26/09 11:30 AM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: artiste212]
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: artiste212
This is from the console log for the last time I ran Disk Util repair permissions:
2009-09-23 02:05:05 -0400: Warning: SUID file "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent" has been modified and will not be repaired.
2009-09-23 02:09:19 -0400: Warning: SUID file "System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DesktopServicesPriv.framework/Versions/A/Resources/Locum" has been modified and will not be repaired.

Thanks for posting this. These are the same SUID warnings I get. I was used to ignoring the repair list in Leopard, but as this is the first time I've seen "Warnings", I'm glad to hear it's nothing to worry about.
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#4382 - 09/26/09 12:39 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: Hal Itosis]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Ditto!
_________________________
Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

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#4399 - 09/26/09 11:20 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: macnerd10]
artiste212 Offline


Registered: 09/05/09
So if I use a program to remove those pesky ACLs from the /private directory, am I going to regret do this after a while? I believe there is an option in Cocktail to remove those ACLs. This is the kind of thing I was kind of hoping SL would fix for once and for all.

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#4405 - 09/27/09 10:54 AM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: artiste212]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Frankly, I don't know for lack of experience with Mac Pilot. Cocktail seems to be a more reputed app than Mac Pilot. You might like to wait for others to pitch in. I believe this is really not a problem, especially if you do not see any odd behavior.
_________________________
Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

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#4407 - 09/27/09 11:31 AM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: macnerd10]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
MacPilot is a customization/configuration and information tool for the Mac, the OS, and a number of apps. Its functionality only incompletely overlaps that of utilities like Cocktail or OnyX which focus more on maintenance, albeit with configuration options.
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#4408 - 09/27/09 12:50 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: alternaut]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Tinkertool System, the shareware utility not its freeware older sibling Tinkertool, has IMO the best facilities for creating and managing ACLs.
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#4411 - 09/27/09 01:19 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: joemikeb]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Agreed! laugh
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#4424 - 09/27/09 06:49 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: alternaut]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
So you recommend TinkerTool System over Mac Pilot? Is it also dummy-friendly, unlike Terminal? This is what Mac Pilot claims, with very good reviews, BTW.
_________________________
Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

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#4426 - 09/27/09 07:09 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: macnerd10]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
I own a copy of MacPilot and I like it, but it can only wipe ACL data. TinkerTool System has more options to view and handle ACLs. Both utilities have a trial period, so you can see for yourself.
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#4428 - 09/28/09 12:18 AM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: alternaut]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Thanks! Will give it a try.
_________________________
Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

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#4514 - 09/29/09 09:08 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: macnerd10]
artiste212 Offline


Registered: 09/05/09
Thanks. I liked the MacPilot solution, but the cure takes far more time than the problem. I may try the command-line solution. Either way, as long as the system is running well, I don't find a pressing need to cure the problem-- I only have to let the dang Disk Utility run for an hour or so when I'm not using my Mac.

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#4527 - 09/30/09 09:10 AM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: artiste212]
artiste212 Offline


Registered: 09/05/09
So I fixed the ACLs. I chose to use freeware BatchMod, and set it only to remove the ACLs in the /private/var folder, not to change any ownership or other permissions.

Then I reran Disk Utility Fix Permissions.

Eureka!! Only the two SUID warnings remain, and yes, it finished in about 15 minutes instead of over an hour.

I hope I haven't caused my system any hidden damage, but it feels so good now that things are working right.

So, the question remains: Why can't our beloved Apple update the permissions when it gives us system updates to fix the Disk Utility problems? Does it have to do with backwards compatibility, are they just lazy, or do they just like to give us things to talk about on discussion boards?


Edited by artiste212 (09/30/09 09:13 AM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#4537 - 09/30/09 01:09 PM Re: More ACL problems in Fix Permissions 10.6.1 [Re: artiste212]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
All of the above! To Apple's credit, they have messed up perm repair in Leopard big time and SL seems to be a great improvement in this domain. If only they could test it themselves and write a KB article to the effect that the warnings should be disregarded. Really, I start missing Tiger more and more...


Edited by macnerd10 (09/30/09 01:09 PM)
_________________________
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