Home Forums FineTunedMac Community Lounge Man in computer shop

This might amuse you.

I went into the local computer shop today. The shop name should be "Pay Double" because every single thing he sells costs double what you pay elsewhere. Everything - cables, CDs, paper, accessories, printers, inks, all are obtainable for half the price on the net or even in different stores further away. He's been in business for years so I can only assume that not many people shop around.

Anyway, I recognised the bloke. He's been there for years. When we got to the part of my chit-chat where I said "....if I want to boot off a CD instead of the hard drive...." he said, ready?

"If you boot off a CD you lose all your files."

"Er..........no......." I said (nicely, I didn't laugh out loud)"......sometimes it's necessary to boot off a CD to diagnose problems. When you've rummaged around your disk and fixed the problems then you reboot again as usual."

He looked away and said nothing.

I said: "It must be irritating for you to have people walk in off the street and start chatting about their computers without buying anything?"

He said: "No, I'm just bored to death with computers."

-------------------

Now I'm going to start a new thread with a simple question. Small question, big answer, maybe. Wish me luck.

Regards

Double prices? Maybe its the new promotion:

SALE! SALE! SALE! BUY ANY ITEM AT TWICE THE USUAL PRICE AND GET A SECOND ONE FREE!

I am sure some folks would bite the hook!

I am sure that you're right. I believe that it was PT Barnum who said that a sucker is born every minute. And HL Mencken said that nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

That being the case, I invite all you out-of-work folks to make a new career under my supervision. You title will be "Currency Retriever". Your job description is to prowl the streets of your community looking for coins or other forms of money that have been lost and to collect such monies that you encounter. You get to keep 50% of whatever you find, giving me the other 50%. Is that a good deal or is that a good deal?

Most local mom & pop computer shops that I've encountered sell things at much higher prices. Frankly, there's no way a local store can match the prices of bigger chains, certainly not online dealers who often take very little margin and [hope to] recoup in volume. The typical local PC store pitch is that the friendly, convenient service and hand-holding they provide justifies the extra cost. This isn't limited to computers either, it's local shops of all kinds. And it's also why small businesses are constantly driven under when the big chains come in.

That said, doesn't sound like this guy provides good prices OR service, so maybe the shop's a drug front?

50% markup is typical for smaller shops.

It also depends on the item. Cables, for example, have an insane markup. That $39 HDMI cable you just bought probably cost them $11. That $12.99 ethernet cable was $2.35. Good margin on any cable. Larger items are less so. But really when you think about it, a sale is a sale. Whether I buy a computer or a cable from you, you need to make something off it. The computer doesn't necessarily have to make more money than the cable. (by the dollar, not the percent markup) With many stores, the big items are just the lure to get you in to buy some accessories while you're there, that's where the money is. If they're making $5 off you whether you buy a DVD burner or the firewire cable for it, $5 is $5 - percentage markups don't need to apply.

I work at a computer shop, and I get items at 5% over our cost. For small items like cables, I get them here. But for anything larger, like the 2tb drive I just bought, I got it cheaper from jr.com than I could here. Don't feel bad if you think the brick-n-mortar has a markup... not even the employees can get a 'deal' there. Not on the bigger things anyway.

Hi

None of you have got the point, which is the fourth paragraph down starting with

"If......

I thought it might make some of you laugh. It's probably me, not you. I think I've made my point then it gets missed - this happens to me a lot. No matter how hard I try to explain my point as I go through life. No one really understands me except my 30-years Other Half.

He probably just skipped over a small portion of the sentence:
If you boot off a CD <and erase your HD> you lose all your files.

Yes, I got that point. But if you lead in with another point, expect to see comments on that as well. Sorry to confuse.

...such as inaccurate technical "advice"?

If you're gonna bury the point, it helps to emphasize it.

The reason why I deleted my text yesterday, was that I was prematurely happy about buying a 4gig memory stick for £10, when I had previously paid £15 for a 1gig stick.

The £10 4-gig stick lasted exactly one session. It mounted on the desk-top, would take files copied onto it, and dismount. The second attempt just froze the Mac, and on another Mac it was even worse, I had to force-quit (or whatever it's called) using the tiny button on the front of the G4 to restart. No keyboard action did anythang. I took it back to the shop today and got my money back.

The £15 Kingston stick, however, performs exactly as it should on all old and new Macs.

Note: don't waste money on cheap memory sticks.

This is getting not-funny.

I bought 4 Kingston sticks (over the internet from my usual stationery supplier) today. The first one out of the packaging only works on iMacs not the G4s. Fortunately they'll taken them all back and give me a refund.

I have one Kingston stick which works. I thought I'd bought exactly the same thing but apparently not.

Now I'm wondering how to get a more uptodate version of USB on the G4s, in case that's the answer. Any ideas, anyone? I realise I'm probably whistling in the dark.

You may well have bought Kingston DIMMs with the same part number and nominally the same performance specs, but they may have been from different manufacturing lots and their performance tolerances might be at the edge of acceptability for Macs. Macs have for many many years been very picky about DIMM performance and DIMMs the average PC will run without question are either rejected by the Power On Self Test or are not even recognized.

I know many people who use Kingsgton DIMMs without problem, but I have purchased and returned several that were dead on arrival as far as my Mac was concerned. I have had consistently good results with OWC house brand, Crucial, and Samsung that I purchased through OWC. I realize you do not have access to the same suppliers I use here in the U.S. but I would imagine you could be able to find Crucial or Samsung where you are. FWIW I believe Samsung is what Apple is currently using and OWC sells them for a fraction of the price charged by Apple.

You've misunderstood Bensheim, joemike; se's taking about flash drives.

(Note "The £10 4-gig stick lasted exactly one session. It mounted on the desk-top, [....]" and "Now I'm wondering how to get a more uptodate version of USB on the G4s, in case that's the answer.")

Yep, Flashdrives, thumbdrives, USB sticks, memory sticks, those little critters.

I'm learning a lot. The Kingston which works on any computer here - I have only just read the microscopically small print on the packaging - is USB2 compliant and USB1.1 compatible.

I've since found a source for USB1.1 compatible memory sticks, and am having two shipped in from Germany. (It'll be quicker than the USA, I hope.)

I've also learned that USB is hardware and not software-upgradable. Now you can all laugh at my hitherto ignorance. I don't care (how foolish some of my questions appear) - as long as I get answers from someone somewhere and then results.



ps. If anyone wants a link to the German place supplying USB2 compliant 1.1 compatible, let me know.

That also explains why the brand new ones from the stationery company did not work on anything other than the iMacs.

> That also explains why the brand new ones from the stationery company did not work on anything other than the iMacs.

That's interesting.

My impression has always been that all USB 2 devices are compatible with USB 1 hardware but function at only USB 1 speed in that environment .

You're saying, though, that the drives that wouldn't work with your G4s are USB 2 compliant, but not USB 1 compatible?

Artie's right: it would be distinctly odd for a USB2 device NOT to be USB1 compatible. If there are problems recognizing flash drives it's often due to insufficient power supplied by the port used. If using a port on a peripheral, try one on the Mac itself; if using a Mac port, try another one; if using a USB hub, make sure it's powered.

Hi. It's not as if I don't have enough to do here, but in the face of Artie and Alt's apparent disbelief, here is what happens when a USB2 compliant not USB1 compatible memory stick is introduced to an OS9 G4. This has happened with two different manufacturers' models.

- stick USB stick into the keyboard USB slot. NOTHING happens.
- pull out USB stick from keyboard USB slot. Finder complains, viz: "You should dismount. You might have lost data". Uh? You, Mr. Finder, didn't recognise the USB stick in the first place. There ain't no data on it yet!

- stick USB stick into back of G4 tower. This is very difficult and exasperating, since the tower faces a wall. Have to drag entire tower away from wall to do this, making sure that no cables fall out, like keyboard cable, ethernet cable, power cable etc.......the cursor arrow turns into a clock. NOTHING ELSE HAPPENS for a hundred years.

- Eventually, since I don't have a hundred years to spare, pull USB stick out of tower USB slot. Finder puts up big message "Do you want to format this disk? UH? I've pulled it OUT!

- Put USB stick back into tower USB slot. Cursor arrow turns into a clock. Repeat as above.

For comparison, this is what happens with a USB2 compliant USB1 compatible stick.

Stick stick into keyboard USB socket. Disc immediately mounts on desktop, all perky and ready for action. Transfer files to stick. Go to Special, Eject, Finder says "You may now disconnect, you have ejected safely".

Hope that helps

Not that it matters because the end result's the same for you, but USB 2.0 spec is inherently backwards compatible with 1.1. If those devices are failing in your G4(s) as described, I'd have to agree with alternaut that the ports are probably not supplying enough power. This is not uncommon on older desktops and even newer laptops. Just because one product's packaging says it's backwards compatible with 1.1 and one omits that, doesn't mean there's actually a spec difference. I would just guess that those cheap flash drives aren't built well enough to handle the low power of those G4 ports. For example, this is very common with portable hard drive enclosures: often "better" ones can run on single USB bus power, while other ones may only run on a dual-port connection. Nothing to do with any lack of backwards compatibility.

Again, doesn't really matter since in any case you'll be switching devices. Just clarifying that what was inferred from your sample of two is not likely the case. Cheers

Oh well I'll find out when the USB sticks I'm having shipped from Germany arrive. Thanks anyway, Don. <wave>

The woman in the computer shop yesterday (the man's wife? who knows?) is so brisk that she almost strips the enamel from your teeth within 5 paces.

You go in the door. She's at the counter, 5 paces away.

HALLO WHAT DO YOU WANT CAN I HELP YOU? she barks out, when you step over the threshold.

I'm looking for USB sticks.......

She slams two down on the counter, then asks (in a brisk, poker-faced, near-hostile manner)

Are you on XP or Windows 98? (or some such PC gibberish)

Me, so wishing I were on a deeply weird and obscure operating system...... "Neither...."

Then she said, without looking at me, and all in one breath:

"THEN I CANNOT HELP YOU GOODBYE."

I was still standing at the counter. She had only made eye contact once, and that was when I entered her shop.

People like that should not be in retail, in my humble opinion.

There is an old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I have to ask why do you keep going back to that shop? Is it the only venue in town?

I wholeheartedly agree they should not be in retail, but if a wholesaler treated their customers that way they would be out of business in days of not hours.

It's the only one in town.

I hardly ever buy things there, and when I do, it's in an emergency.

I went in once to buy a long ethernet cable. Do you sell long ethernet cables, I asked, nicely.

She snapped her head up and said (I say "said" advisedly) this:

CROSS-OVER OR PATCH?

I goggled at her. "All I want is to connect a computer to the printer......"

She how aggressive she is? She how she (in a tiny computer shop in a small town) tries to intimidate her walk-in customers?

Maybe she should get out more. Or she needs a good shag something.

> The woman in the computer shop yesterday (the man's wife? who knows?) is so brisk that she almost strips the enamel from your teeth within 5 paces.

Outstanding metaphor!

> Or she needs a good shag something.

Outstanding insight!

> People like that should not be in retail, in my humble opinion.

Living in NYC, where stores wink in and out of existence more quickly than fireflies flash, so I'm in and out of many different ones, I'm shocked by the number of "retailers" I encounter who think that all you've got to do to be a retailer is open a store and fill its shelves with merchandise.

WRONG! Retailers are made by their mothers and fathers (although merchandise can spring a jerk in exceptionally rare instances).

Edit: By the way... You've never told us which brands of gig-stick haven't worked for you.

I generally associate that kind of a reaction with someone compensating for their own incompetence or sense of incompetence. They have set themselves up as the "village expert" and are absolutely terrified someone is going to come in and prove they are only poseurs. They are invariably unpleasant to deal with and they always hold you at "arms length" lest you discover their incompetence. Present them with anything outside of their very narrow range of knowledge and they immediately label you a troublemaker and a problem to be gotten rid of as soon as possible.

I have found the best way of dealing with their ilk is to present them with a situation where they have absolutely no options. Instead of asking for an ethernet cable ask for a "10 meter ethernet cable with molded snag-proof connectors, whether it is a patch or crossover is of no consequence." (All recent Apple computers have ethernet ports that electronically detect which type of connection is required and adjust automatically to the cable.) I use that same tactic with clerks in some PC-centric big box computer stores around here because so many of their employees are actually Mac hostile — for the same reasons.