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#43881 - 03/09/17 12:56 AM Protection Against CIA Hacking
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||

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#43882 - 03/09/17 04:30 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: grelber]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
WikiLeaks documents show CIA struggling to crack Apple gear, little danger to everyday folk Fortunately, I'm not vulnerable to any of this. I have a dumb TV (not even connected to either the internet or cable, just to my DVD player) and a dumb phone (a $10 Samsung that only does phone calls).
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#43887 - 03/09/17 08:35 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: jchuzi]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Do you have tape over the camera lens on your iMac? crazy
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#43888 - 03/09/17 09:02 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: Ira L]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: Ira L
Do you have tape over the camera lens on your iMac? crazy
No, but I have Face Time turned off.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#43893 - 03/09/17 11:39 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09

But I wonder how many iPhones this is going to sell despite "little danger"?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#43904 - 03/09/17 12:41 PM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#43915 - 03/10/17 04:57 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: jchuzi]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
I suspect that Apple is already at work developing a Safari interface that allows their servers to be used as the conduit for encrypted/VPN type surfing, e.g., no tracking, tracing, etc. But with a nominal subscription fee.

Well, at least I hoping for such. And if they do, 'tis likely another opportunity to visit a court room...
_________________________
Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#43920 - 03/10/17 09:38 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: jchuzi]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Originally Posted By: Ira L
Do you have tape over the camera lens on your iMac? crazy
No, but I have Face Time turned off.

If you—despite your current precautions—are interested in keeping tabs on your system’s accesses of the built-in mic and/or camera, you might want to have a look at OverSight from Patrick Wardle’s Objective-See. Find a recent 3rd party write-up of this free and handy little utility HERE.
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alternaut moderator

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#43921 - 03/10/17 09:46 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: jchuzi]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Originally Posted By: Ira L
Do you have tape over the camera lens on your iMac? crazy
No, but I have Face Time turned off.

As pointed out in the post above, for all we know FaceTime may not be the only one to access the camera. And if there is a path to the camera there may be a way to externally access it, whether the user has it on or not.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#43922 - 03/10/17 10:10 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: alternaut]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Thanks for that link. I just dl'd and installed OverSight. Nobody (at least now) is trying to access my camera or microphone. Maybe I should be insulted?... grin
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#43923 - 03/10/17 10:26 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: jchuzi]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Maybe I should be insulted?... grin

You got to be kidding, or into SM. shocked wink
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alternaut moderator

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#43924 - 03/10/17 12:09 PM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: alternaut]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: alternaut
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Maybe I should be insulted?... grin

You got to be kidding, or into SM. shocked wink

Dunno ... I was just chatting with my SmartFridge who had been arguing the point with my SmartThermostat and she opined ... [bleep] ... tongue

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#43926 - 03/10/17 01:16 PM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: alternaut
If you—despite your current precautions—are interested in keeping tabs on your system’s accesses of the built-in mic and/or camera, you might want to have a look at OverSight from Patrick Wardle’s Objective-See. Find a recent 3rd party write-up of this free and handy little utility HERE.

Can you explain what OverSight does that /Applications/System Preferences > Flash Player > Camera & Mic > Block all sites from using the camera and microphone doesn't do? (I didn't see any reference to Flash in your linked review.)

Edit: Is it that your camera and mic can be accessed by entities other than websites?


Edited by artie505 (03/10/17 01:27 PM)
Edit Reason: More
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#43927 - 03/10/17 03:31 PM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: artie505]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: artie505

Can you explain what OverSight does that /Applications/System Preferences > Flash Player > Camera & Mic > Block all sites from using the camera and microphone doesn't do? (I didn't see any reference to Flash in your linked review.)

Edit: Is it that your camera and mic can be accessed by entities other than websites?


Yes, exactly. The Flash pref only blocks Flash from using the camera/mic (Web sites still have ways to do this without Flash!). Oversight blocks everything.
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#43929 - 03/10/17 03:41 PM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks, tacit.

I've got to give OverSight some thought.

It's not like I'm in danger of being compromised (My life is so uninteresting that I've considered trying to sell it as a reality show to replace the Yule log.), and I really hate to succumb to paranoia just because it's there.

Edit: I just noticed that OverSight works via Notifications, which I've got turned off.


Edited by artie505 (03/10/17 04:02 PM)
Edit Reason: More
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#43931 - 03/10/17 04:24 PM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Since I use my iPhone and iPad almost as much as my Mac and Oversight does not, probably cannot, work on iOS I broke down and bought a set of these.

Of course the next website I went to revealed Apple had already fixed most of the vulnerabilities. Apparently the CIA isn't keeping up with the changing times.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#43934 - 03/10/17 05:00 PM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Since I use my iPhone and iPad almost as much as my Mac and Oversight does not, probably cannot, work on iOS I broke down and bought a set of these.

They're awfully pricey at $7.98 for three minuscule pieces of "plastic", even if the material is unique, and despite its potentially eternal life.

Quote:
Size: 15mm by 15mm and 0.5mm thick Life Cycle: Over 250,000 uses Material: Propriety Organic Polymer which safely sticks to any electronics surface-plastics, painted plastic, glass and metal.

Paranoia isn't dealt with cheaply, is it? tongue
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#43940 - 03/11/17 12:51 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
Paranoia isn't dealt with cheaply, is it? tongue

It can be. I use scissors to cut off the sticky end of a Post-It note and it works great. It can stay there forever and, if you do remove it, there's no residue. I guess I have more Scottish blood than I thought.
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Super Duper on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

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#43942 - 03/11/17 01:07 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
Paranoia isn't dealt with cheaply, is it? tongue

It can be. I use scissors to cut off the sticky end of a Post-It note and it works great. It can stay there forever and, if you do remove it, there's no residue. I guess I have more Scottish blood than I thought.

How low-tech of you! shocked
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#43947 - 03/11/17 09:18 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: ryck]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I tried that the sticky note solution once on my iPhone. The sticky note did not survive the first insertion into my shirt pocket, but it did survive the wash ending up a small yellow ball in the pocket seam. tongue


Edited by joemikeb (03/11/17 09:19 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarify reference
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joemikeb • moderator

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#43950 - 03/11/17 10:02 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: joemikeb]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Although the discussion has moved on, I think it’s still helpful to emphasize a few aspects of the way OverSight works. First off, it doesn’t automatically block* an attempt to eavesdrop via the built-in mic or camera, it only monitors their activation. Once it detects access or activation, it offers the option to block this via a notification that requires user input to be executed.
Second, in order to perform its monitoring, it uses APIs that may be bypassed, which in turn allows for ways to disable OverSight. In this respect OverSight’s documentation states:

As with any security tool, direct or proactive attempts to specifically bypass OverSight's protections will likely succeed. Moreover, the current version over OverSight utilizes user-mode APIs in order to monitor for audio and video events. Thus any malware that has a kernel-mode or rootkit component may be able to access the webcam and mic in an undetected manner.

In conclusion, OverSight is a useful but limited tool. The taping off of both cam and mic will help, assuming the resultant signal attenuation (especially of the audio portion) is sufficient. How to do this reliably and durably with mobile devices is another question. Here too (the blocking of) eavesdropping via audio may be the greater issue. And from a larger privacy point of view, one should not forget that users can be followed in ways that are beyond the reach of OverSight to affect.


* Monitoring results may be used to trigger events other than a simple notification, but those events are as yet not implemented.
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alternaut moderator

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#43972 - 03/14/17 10:16 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: alternaut]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#44110 - 03/23/17 11:55 AM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: jchuzi]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#44127 - 03/26/17 11:15 PM Re: Protection Against CIA Hacking [Re: jchuzi]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Interesting reading. The thing that jumped out at me is that all the described attacks require physical access; the CIA actually has to get their hands on the Apple gear to be hacked, it can't be done remotely.

I suspect the SonicScrewdriver attack has long since been closed off. EFI attacks are getting harder and harder to do as Apple becomes more aware of them.
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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Moderator:  alternaut, cyn