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#40062 - 04/25/16 09:48 PM Kensington Locks
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
The Genius I spoke to recently told me that they had stopped using MacBook Airs at the Genius Bar (in that particular store, anyhow)...switched to basic 13" MacBook Pros, because the Airs were being stolen, and the Pros are the only ones Apple makes with Kensingtons. tongue
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#40065 - 04/26/16 09:57 AM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Laptops as a class of device have always had the reputation of growing legs and walking off, but with the ever thinner MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro designs, finding space for a Kensington lock is an obvious engineering challenge. Maybe Apple needs to devote some of their human factors engineering to figuring out a completely new anchoring mechanism but I have seen no mention of that on any of the rumor sites — just the continuing drumbeat, "…the next model MacBook/Air/Pro will be thinner, faster, and have longer battery life."

There is speculation on the rumor sites the MacBook Air line will be dropped at the June WWDC having been squeezed out by the ever thinner and more powerful MacBook and MacBook Pro models, not to mention the 12" iPad Pro, which might have been an even bigger incentive behind the store's decision to switch to the MacBook Pro. smile
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#40067 - 04/26/16 11:44 AM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
There is speculation on the rumor sites the MacBook Air line will be dropped at the June WWDC having been squeezed out by the ever thinner and more powerful MacBook and MacBook Pro models, not to mention the 12" iPad Pro, which might have been an even bigger incentive behind the store's decision to switch to the MacBook Pro.

I doubt that, because Apple's well-known penchant for extreme secrecy would tend to preclude the store's having foreknowledge of the Air's demise.

It doesn't look like a Kensington lock slot requires all that much space, but the way Apple has been designing things lately, a pinhead might take up more space than there is.

This harks back to a thread started by Donni Katz at least four years ago in which he complained that his company had bought a bunch of new Mac minis and was not at all pleased to find that they didn't have Kensingtons and would have to be epoxied, which is a workaround, but hardly a satisfactory solution.

It seems like the more compact Macs get the more we either give up in the process or the more cumbersome compensating for it gets.
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#40074 - 04/26/16 02:42 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
I doubt that, because Apple's well-known penchant for extreme secrecy would tend to preclude the store's having foreknowledge of the Air's demise.

Assuming the decision originated at the local store. It could have been handed down from or recommended by Cupertino. confused

Originally Posted By: artie505

It doesn't look like a Kensington lock slot requires all that much space, but the way Apple has been designing things lately, a pinhead might take up more space than there is.

I have seen photographs reported to be MacBook/MacBook Air prototypes where the hinge is a flexure in the case to save the space required for a hinge pin. shocked

Originally Posted By: artie505
It seems like the more compact Macs get the more we either give up in the process or the more cumbersome compensating for it gets.

Even though computer sales represent a decreasing shore of Apple's business, those sales continue to increase while computer sales in general continue to fall. As long as the market continues to demand slimmer, lighter, more powerful laptops with 12 to 15" Retina displays and longer battery life Apple will continue to meet that demand even if it means there isn't room for non-essential (albeit nice-to have) features such as headphone jacks; USB 3, Firewire, and Thunderbolt ports; upgradeable memory, and Kensington locks must go by the board.
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#40093 - 04/28/16 12:24 AM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: artie505 & joemikeb
artie505: I doubt that, because Apple's well-known penchant for extreme secrecy would tend to preclude the store's having foreknowledge of the Air's demise.

joemikeb: Assuming the decision originated at the local store. It could have been handed down from or recommended by Cupertino. confused

I think it's most unlikely that Cupertino would have directed the store to switch from MBAirs to not just the "clunkiest" Macs made, but the only ones that still have Kensington Lock ports if theft wasn't the issue; Apple's interests are best served by having only their "sexiest" models visible.

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
I have seen photographs reported to be MacBook/MacBook Air prototypes where the hinge is a flexure in the case to save the space required for a hinge pin. shocked

shocked , indeed, not to mention tongue !

Originally Posted By: artie505 & joemikeb
artie505: It seems like the more compact Macs get the more we either give up in the process or the more cumbersome compensating for it gets.

joemikeb: As long as the market continues to demand slimmer, lighter, more powerful laptops....

We should have our own talk show! grin

I think that demand is a self-fulfilling prophecy...that those Macs are selling because they're all Apple is offering!

I measure slimmer and lighter by the size and weight of the total package required to perpetuate the functionality I need; if I've got to carry around a bagful of adapters, drives, and docks or have them littering my desk to achieve it, then the Mac I'm using does NOT fill my slimmer and lighter bill, and I'll bet the farm that I'm not alone in thinking that way.

And I'll also bet that Apple's impetus towards slimmer and lighter is driven in part by corporate greed and the considerable amount of money to be made by eliminating 3rd party RAM and hard drives as options ($200 to upgrade from 8 to 16GB of RAM, and $300 to upgrade from a 256 GB SSD to a 512GB SSD, indeed!), not to mention the money to be made from selling the multiplicity of adapters and other appurtenances necessary to restoring lost functionality.

And further to that is their having usurped our control over our own destinies by requiring that we buy those expensive upgrades "on spec" rather than as the need arises.

Nope! At the end of the day I'll bet that a sizable percentage of Mac users would be more than happy to deal with slightly larger and heavier machines in return for some regained functionality and control over their own destinies.
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#40098 - 04/28/16 07:22 AM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
I think that demand is a self-fulfilling prophecy...that those Macs are selling because they're all Apple is offering!

Maybe, but within Apple Mac sales have remained relatively stable in dollar volume increasing only a small amount since the first quarter of 2009 and that is in an overall computer market that has been falling at a rate of as much as 10% a year in both dollars and unit sales. This means Mac market share is steadily increasing over this same time frame. So Apple must be doing something right just to stay even much less improve.

To put things in the Apple corporate perspective, in 2009 Mac sales were about ⅓ of total sales, the iPhone ⅓, and the remaining ⅓ iPod, services, and Other. Today Mac net sales account for 10% of Apple sales, iPad 9%, Services 12%, Other 4%, and iPhone 65%. Apple is investing a LOT of money keeping Mac sales where they are instead of decreasing with the rest of the computer market. They are unlikely to be investing that kind of money in laptops if they didn't have to. But that is just my opinion.
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#40185 - 05/02/16 04:56 AM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: artie505]
Virtual1 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: artie505
I think that demand is a self-fulfilling prophecy...that those Macs are selling because they're all Apple is offering!


Apple invests a tremendous amount in market research - it really HAS to, considering how much value there is in Apple product sales relying on the "intangibles" of hip, cool, new, sexy, light, thin, etc. I have to assume their products are being evolved in the direction that lots of research has told them will sell the best.

So like it or not, it's our fault wink
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#40474 - 05/14/16 11:07 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Sorry for being so slow to respond.

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
I think that demand is a self-fulfilling prophecy...that those Macs are selling because they're all Apple is offering!

Maybe, but within Apple Mac sales have remained relatively stable in dollar volume increasing only a small amount since the first quarter of 2009 and that is in an overall computer market that has been falling at a rate of as much as 10% a year in both dollars and unit sales. This means Mac market share is steadily increasing over this same time frame. So Apple must be doing something right just to stay even much less improve.

That doesn't factor in price increases, both those that have resulted from decreased functionality and those at the retail level (particularly with respect to the pricey Retina MacBook), so Apple's stable revenue could very well be artificial...the effect of falling unit sales, but of higher priced units.

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
To put things in the Apple corporate perspective, in 2009 Mac sales were about ⅓ of total sales, the iPhone ⅓, and the remaining ⅓ iPod, services, and Other. Today Mac net sales account for 10% of Apple sales, iPad 9%, Services 12%, Other 4%, and iPhone 65%. Apple is investing a LOT of money keeping Mac sales where they are instead of decreasing with the rest of the computer market. They are unlikely to be investing that kind of money in laptops if they didn't have to. But that is just my opinion.

If I were Apple I'd find that disproportionate reliance on iPhone sales to be scary enough to justify a considerable investment in maintaining my "core" business.

Apple seems to be positioning themselves as a luxury brand (if they haven't already done so) in a market with an increasing number of consumers of luxury items, and maintaining a complete product line is, I think, essential to that end. They ABSOLUTELY DO NOT want you to walk around with an iPhone and go home to a Dell.
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#40475 - 05/14/16 11:47 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: Virtual1]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
Originally Posted By: artie505
I think that demand is a self-fulfilling prophecy...that those Macs are selling because they're all Apple is offering!

Apple invests a tremendous amount in market research - it really HAS to, considering how much value there is in Apple product sales relying on the "intangibles" of hip, cool, new, sexy, light, thin, etc. I have to assume their products are being evolved in the direction that lots of research has told them will sell the best.

So like it or not, it's our fault wink

Sorry for taking so long to post back.

Here's a comparison of the specs of the 2010 and 2015 13" and 15" MacBook Pros (Having had both 15"ers side by side gave me some real-life perspective.):
  • 2010 MBP 13" 4.50 lb 0.95" H x 12.78" W x 8.94" D (114.25" sq.)
  • 2015 MBP 13" 3.48 lb 0.71" H x 12.35" W x 8.62" D (106.46" sq.)
  • 2010 MBP 15" 5.60 lb 0.95" H x 14.35" W x 9.82" D (140.92" sq.)
  • 2015 MBP 15" 4.49 lb 0.71" H x 14.13" W x 9.73" D (137.48" sq.)
Both got ~1/4" thinner and shed a ~pound (22% and 20%, respectively), and their footprints decreased by ~8" sq. (7%) and ~3 1/2" sq. (2.5%), respectively.

And this is end cost of the "miniaturization" (excluding the weight and space requirements of appurtenances*)):
  • User-serviceable RAM & The option to upgrade against need: $100 (plus the loss of the OEM DIMMS for backup or sale)
  • User-serviceable SSD & The option to upgrade against need: $150 (plus the loss of the OEM SSD for backup or sale)
  • Ethernet port**: $30 Apple adapter
  • Optical drive & Loss of the bay for an another drive: $79 Apple SuperDrive or $x.xx enclosure, as the case may be
  • Audio line-in: $40 Griffin iMic
  • Battery indicator light: Having to boot to determine battery status
  • State indicator light: Irreplaceable...cost measured in loss of peace of mind
That's waaay too big a giveaway for a quarter of an inch and a pound (OK, I'll concede that I'd appreciate at least part of the pound if I carried my deuced Mac(hina) around a lot.), and I stand by my accusation that it's nothing more than a money-grab dressed in "designer clothing", not "what users want".

I doubt that Apple has lost any users because of it, but their exercise in corporate avarice has most assuredly resulted in some degree of alienation, which is neither good business nor good for business.

* Apple's SuperDrive adds 0.7" and 11.82 oz to a 0.24" slimmer, 17.76 oz lighter carrying bag.

** Why hasn't Apple maintained support for Ethernet, which is ubiquitous, by simply designing a new, slimmer port and selling adapters? They'd be no big deal to design and make...and profitable.

And as for the truly portable members of the Mac line...

I agree with you that the Retina MacBook and MacBook Air are "what users want"...slimmest and lightest, regardless of the consequences.

The RMB was released almost simultaneously with the Apple Watch and actually strikes me as an under-the-radar "wearable".

Quote:
Buy all four colors, keep 'em synced with iCloud, and you're ready for anything.

Carry the one that matches your mood...carry the one that matches your outfit!

The MBAir's functionality and price point don't jive with those of the RMB and MBP...too much for too little, so joemike's report of its rumored demise makes sense, and if it comes to pass, there will be no truly portable Apple product with enough functionality to be suitable as a home/work computer.

I wonder if that's "what users want" too?


Edited by artie505 (05/15/16 02:05 AM)
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#40791 - 06/01/16 02:25 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Bad news Artie. If the rumors are true the new MacBook Pro will be thinner, lighter and have OLED displays. Apparently Apple does not agree with your analysis. ☹️

There are more rumors the MacBook Air will be dropped entirely. 😐
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#40812 - 06/02/16 12:43 AM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Bad news Artie. If the rumors are true the new MacBook Pro will be thinner, lighter and have OLED displays. Apparently Apple does not agree with your analysis. ☹️

There are more rumors the MacBook Air will be dropped entirely. 😐

Heck, joemike, that's excellent news, and it indicates that Apple DOES agree with my analysis of the poor cost/benefit ratio that's given us the current line of MacBook Pros. grin

If Apple can actually justify the MBP's decreased functionality and increased cost with a meaningful decrease in size I'll applaud the idea, effort, and result.

I've seen rumors that the 13" MacBook Air will remain but the 11"er will be discontinued in favor of the 12" MacBook (which doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense to me).

My daughter needs a new Mac, and I'm going to advise her to go for a stock, top 13" MB Air (which, oddly, costs the same $1,199 as an otherwise identically configured top 11"er...did I miss something there[?]) while she can still get one.


Edited by artie505 (06/02/16 01:28 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
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#43108 - 12/09/16 10:54 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Updating to include the specs of the 2016 13" and 15" MacBook Pros:
  • 2010 MBP 13" 4.50 lb. 0.95" H x 12.78" W x 8.94" D (114.25" sq.)
  • 2015 MBP 13" 3.48 lb. 0.71" H x 12.35" W x 8.62" D (106.46" sq.)
  • 2016 MBP 13" 3.02 lb. 0.59" H x 11.97" W x 8.36" D (100.07" sq.)
  • 2010 MBP 15" 5.60 lb. 0.95" H x 14.35" W x 9.82" D (140.92" sq.)
  • 2015 MBP 15" 4.49 lb. 0.71" H x 14.13" W x 9.73" D (137.48" sq.)
  • 2016 MBP 15" 4.02 lb. 0.61" H x 13.75" W x 9.48" D (130.35" sq.)
2010-2015: Both got ~1/4" thinner and shed a ~pound, and their footprints decreased by ~8" sq. and ~3 1/2" sq., respectively.

2015-2016: Both got ~1/10" thinner and shed ~1/2 pound, and their footprints decreased by ~6.5" sq. and ~7" sq., respectively.

This is end cost of the "miniaturizations" (excluding the weight and space requirements of appurtenances)):
  • User-serviceable RAM & The option to upgrade against need: $100 (plus the loss of the OEM DIMMS for backup or sale)
  • User-serviceable SSD & The option to upgrade against need: $150 (plus the loss of the OEM SSD for backup or sale)
  • Ethernet port: $30 Apple adapter
  • Optical drive & Loss of the bay for an another drive: $79 Apple SuperDrive or $x.xx enclosure, as the case may be
  • Audio line-in: $40 Griffin iMic
  • Battery indicator light: Having to boot to determine battery status
  • State indicator light: Irreplaceable...cost measured in loss of peace of mind
  • SDXC card slot: ~$30 3rd party card reader
  • USB ports: ~$20 3rd party USB C to 4 x USB 3 adapter
  • HDMI port: $35 Apple adapter
  • MagSafe port: one less port for other purposes
Looking at this from several angles:
  1. An MBP alone, is sleek and beautiful.
  2. With cables plugged into it it isn't quite as, but it still is.
  3. But with adapters sticking out of its ports it looks like it's got hemorrhoids.
  4. And finally, because, after all, the MBP was born to travel: the overall package that you've got to take on the road with you in order to have complete functionality is bigger, bulkier, and not much lighter than it was when the functionality was built in.
It's hard to argue with what's presumably the product of Apple's market research, but I wonder how the respondents who opted for smaller and lighter feel about the total package?

And finally, battery life as reported my Mactracker has remained more or less static in the 9-10 hour range since 2010, which leaves me wondering if Apple is passing on more battery life in favor of less weight, and how that sits with the respondents if it's the case?
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#43109 - 12/09/16 11:50 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: artie505
The Genius I spoke to recently told me that they had stopped using MacBook Airs at the Genius Bar (in that particular store, anyhow)...switched to basic 13" MacBook Pros, because the Airs were being stolen, and the Pros are the only ones Apple makes with Kensingtons. tongue

The referenced MBPs were discontinued in October, so, to the best of my knowledge, Apple no longer makes a Mac that can be chained to its spot...good opening for a 3rd party solution if there's not one out there already. It wouldn't be pretty, but there'd be a market for it.
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#43112 - 12/10/16 08:22 AM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: artie505]
Ira L Online


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: artie505
...good opening for a 3rd party solution if there's not one out there already. It wouldn't be pretty, but there'd be a market for it.


This Amazon page shows a half-zillion third-party solutions, many not pretty, but… .
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#43118 - 12/10/16 09:55 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: Ira L]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Ira L
Originally Posted By: artie505
...good opening for a 3rd party solution if there's not one out there already. It wouldn't be pretty, but there'd be a market for it.


This Amazon page shows a half-zillion third-party solutions, many not pretty, but… .

Not all that many, because the selection pretty much peters out at the top of page 2, but thanks for the link; I'd add a locking solution to my list of items lost to miniaturization, but my edit time period has expired, so...

Replacement for Kensington lock slot: looks like $50-75 for a solution that's obtrusive at best.

If I'm in the neighborhood, I'll pop into the Apple store and see what their solution is; my guess is that they'll revert to Airs and better security as opposed to using a totally 3rd party solution.
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#43120 - 12/11/16 03:43 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
If I'm in the neighborhood, I'll pop into the Apple store and see what their solution is; my guess is that they'll revert to Airs and better security as opposed to using a totally 3rd party solution.

When I was in the nearest Apple Store a few weeks ago the devices were not anchored at all.
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#43121 - 12/11/16 03:49 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
When I was in the nearest Apple Store a few weeks ago the devices were not anchored at all.

Not necessary when they have security officers who look like Mafia enforcers with Uzis at the door. tongue smirk

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#43123 - 12/11/16 04:19 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
If I'm in the neighborhood, I'll pop into the Apple store and see what their solution is; my guess is that they'll revert to Airs and better security as opposed to using a totally 3rd party solution.

When I was in the nearest Apple Store a few weeks ago the devices were not anchored at all.

It may be on a store by store basis.

I can't even say that all NY stores have/had their Genius Bar computers anchored, because I've only been in one of them.
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#43125 - 12/11/16 06:11 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: grelber]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: grelber
Not necessary when they have security officers who look like Mafia enforcers with Uzis at the door. tongue smirk
the petit blond at the door here certainly did not fit my image of a mafia enforcer and heaven only knows where she would have hidden an Uzi in her skinny jeans. The concept is mind boggling.
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#43126 - 12/11/16 10:07 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
...heaven only knows where she would have hidden an Uzi in her skinny jeans. The concept is mind boggling.

It could give "codpiece" a whole new meaning. tongue

(Actually, her left leg is a semi-automatic prosthesis. grin )
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#43127 - 12/11/16 11:54 PM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Actually, her left leg is a semi-automatic prosthesis. grin

Shades of Red Harrington (Helena Bonham Carter's character) in "The Lone Ranger" remake (2013) ....

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#43128 - 12/12/16 12:13 AM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Originally Posted By: artie505
Actually, her left leg is a semi-automatic prosthesis. grin

Shades of "The Lone Ranger" remake ....

Didn't see the Johnny Depp debacle; can you link to an image?
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#43129 - 12/12/16 12:23 AM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Not of the "loaded" and scrimshawed ivory prosthesis per se. But you might cruise the Web, starting with The Lone Ranger (2013) - IMDb.

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#43131 - 12/12/16 12:32 AM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Got it.

NEAT!

Thanks.


Edited by artie505 (12/12/16 01:29 AM)
Edit Reason: Add link
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#43138 - 12/12/16 09:53 AM Re: Kensington Locks [Re: joemikeb]
Ira L Online


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: grelber
Not necessary when they have security officers who look like Mafia enforcers with Uzis at the door. tongue smirk
the petit blond at the door here certainly did not fit my image of a mafia enforcer and heaven only knows where she would have hidden an Uzi in her skinny jeans. The concept is mind boggling.


Her hands are registered as lethal weapons. smirk
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