An open community 
of Macintosh users,
for Macintosh users.

FineTunedMac Dashboard widget now available! Download Here

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#42389 - 10/29/16 06:45 AM browser
jaybass Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: toronto Canada
OS 10.6.8 Safari 5.1.10 Can anyone advise if downloading 'startpage' by ixquick is okay? jaybass

Top
#42391 - 10/29/16 08:37 AM Re: browser [Re: jaybass]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Rule #1: Download nothing from other than originator — eg, Apple apps from Apple, Microsoft apps from Microsoft, Firefox from Mozilla. Otherwise there are no (relative) guarantees that such won't come with unwanted accompaniment.

Top
#42394 - 10/29/16 11:59 AM Re: browser [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
jaybass's source IS the app's developer.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#42396 - 10/29/16 12:39 PM Re: browser [Re: grelber]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
There is a StartPage Safari Extension available for download and installation from Apple. I would put that in an even higher level of safety than downloading from the developer. Not only has the developer proofed the file, so has Apple.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#42398 - 10/29/16 02:33 PM Re: browser [Re: joemikeb]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
There is a StartPage Safari Extension available for download and installation from Apple.

I went to the StartPage site and liked what they had to say about security, so I installed. Everything seems fine.

However, when I went into my wife's account (on the same iMac) her Safari was still set to Google. I figured I must need to do her install separately so I went back to the StartPage site. However, when I clicked on "Add to Safari" nothing happened…no download, nada.

What could I be doing wrong?
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
#42399 - 10/29/16 02:42 PM Re: browser [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
You may have to switch her setting in Safari > Prefs > Search > Search engine.

Just to clarify, the StartPage extension can be d/l'ed from its developer (as well as from Apple) here.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#42400 - 10/29/16 04:23 PM Re: browser [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
You may have to switch her setting in Safari > Prefs > Search > Search engine.

That's one of the things I tried but there was no StartPage to choose, only Google, Bing, Yahoo and DuckDuckGo (whatever that is). Interestingly, it's the same in my Safari - those four choices but no StartPage.
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
#42402 - 10/29/16 04:29 PM Re: browser [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I just installed the StartPage extension to have a look-see, and I see the same thing you see in prefs, but I've got a new icon to the left of my Safari address bar; I guess that's its incarnation.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#42403 - 10/29/16 05:24 PM Re: browser [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
...but I've got a new icon to the left of my Safari address bar….

Me too, although I can't determine its purpose. It seems redundant. If I enter a search in the window it presents, I get the same results as I do when conducting the same search in the normal way.


Edited by ryck (10/29/16 05:24 PM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
#42404 - 10/29/16 05:48 PM Re: browser [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
...but I've got a new icon to the left of my Safari address bar….

Me too, although I can't determine its purpose. It seems redundant. If I enter a search in the window it presents, I get the same results as I do when conducting the same search in the normal way.

I think you're misunderstanding StartPage.

My understanding is that when you search via the window presented when you click on its icon you get the same Google results you'd otherwise get, but your "identity" is blocked.

You don't see it in the pref pane because it's not a pref, rather it's a non-pref option.


Edited by artie505 (10/29/16 11:30 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarify
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#42405 - 10/29/16 11:38 PM Re: browser [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
There is a StartPage Safari Extension available for download and installation from Apple. I would put that in an even higher level of safety than downloading from the developer. Not only has the developer proofed the file, so has Apple.

But of course you are right! I would revise Rule #1 to reflect such.

Top
#42406 - 10/29/16 11:44 PM Re: browser [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
jaybass's source IS the app's developer.

Mea culpa. I never checked that out because (to me) it was a Safari extension from an unknown source.
That said, being a user of Firefox, I only download/install extensions and other plugins which are available through and thoroughly vetted by Mozilla — in line with revised Rule #1 reflecting joemikeb's comments.

Top
#42407 - 10/29/16 11:47 PM Re: browser [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
There is a StartPage Safari Extension available for download and installation from Apple. I would put that in an even higher level of safety than downloading from the developer. Not only has the developer proofed the file, so has Apple.

But of course you are right! I would revise Rule #1 to reflect such.

Just bear in mind that there are apps that offer versions on their developers' websites that differ from those offered through the App Store, and at least some of them lose desirable functionality when d/l'ed from the latter, at least sometimes because of sandboxing.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#42408 - 10/29/16 11:58 PM Re: browser [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Just bear in mind that there are apps that offer versions on their developers' websites that differ from those offered through the App Store, and at least some of them lose desirable functionality when d/l'ed from the latter, at least sometimes because of sandboxing.

True. But being unable to effectively vet the necessity or desirability of the original vs App Store's offering (ie, unless I were somehow able to definitively determine the safety of the developer's offering), I'd still opt for the latter just to be on the safe side.

Top
#42409 - 10/30/16 12:10 AM Re: browser [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Originally Posted By: artie505
Just bear in mind that there are apps that offer versions on their developers' websites that differ from those offered through the App Store, and at least some of them lose desirable functionality when d/l'ed from the latter, at least sometimes because of sandboxing.

True. But being unable to effectively vet the necessity or desirability of the original vs App Store's offering (ie, unless I were somehow able to definitively determine the safety of the developer's offering), I'd still opt for the latter just to be on the safe side.

When sandboxing is involved, an App Store version of an app is, by definition, safer than its developer's version, but I think foregoing functionality because of worries about the inherent safety of the developer's version is excessive paranoia (although I most assuredly agree with you about "3rd party" d/l's).

Edit: I'm certain that if dev-site and App Store versions of an app differ, the differences are spelled out somewhere.


Edited by artie505 (10/30/16 01:45 AM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#42410 - 10/30/16 04:01 AM Re: browser [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
...but I've got a new icon to the left of my Safari address bar….

Originally Posted By: ryck
Me too, although I can't determine its purpose. It seems redundant. If I enter a search in the window it presents, I get the same results as I do when conducting the same search in the normal way.

Originally Posted By: artie505
My understanding is that when you search via the window presented when you click on its icon you get the same Google results you'd otherwise get, but your "identity" is blocked.

You don't see it in the pref pane because it's not a pref, rather it's a non-pref option.

Oh...I assumed that identity-blocking was a proxy function.

If I look at the results of a Google page search, the various destinations have "proxy" in their descriptions. I thought that, if I then click on proxy, StartPage processes the link but first "cleans" my request.

Is the SP icon a way of accomplishing the same end but without the interim step?


Edited by ryck (10/30/16 04:03 AM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
#42412 - 10/30/16 04:13 AM Re: browser [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Oh...I assumed that identity-blocking was a proxy function.

If I look at the results of a Google page search, the various destinations have "proxy" in their descriptions. I thought that, if I then click on proxy, StartPage processes the link but first "cleans" my request.

Is the SP icon a way of accomplishing the same end but without the interim step?

Dunno, ryck; I'm not even certain that my "understanding" is correct.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#42415 - 10/30/16 05:55 AM Re: browser [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
Dunno, ryck; I'm not even certain that my "understanding" is correct.

Good news….we may be getting closer. I now think the StartPage (SP icon) is the key to getting "Proxy" to work. Here's what I did:

1. Entered a search into the Safari bar in the regular fashion, which generated a Google list but appearing to have a StartPage front end. Each of the potential sites had a "Proxy" option.

2. I went to one of the sites by clicking on "Proxy".

3. I left the site and checked my cookies. The site had left one, which I then deleted.

4. This time I conducted a search using the same search criterion but using the SP icon.

5. It came up with the same list of sites, so I clicked on "Proxy" at the same site as above.

6. I left the site and checked my cookies. The site had not been able to leave one.


Edited by ryck (10/30/16 05:58 AM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
#42418 - 10/30/16 08:15 AM Re: browser [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
That sounds like how I thought StartPage worked; good research!
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#42423 - 10/30/16 11:34 AM Re: browser [Re: ryck]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: ryck

That's one of the things I tried but there was no StartPage to choose, only Google, Bing, Yahoo and DuckDuckGo (whatever that is). Interestingly, it's the same in my Safari - those four choices but no StartPage.


DuckDuckGo is a Startpage competitor. It works exactly the same way Startpage does: it strips out all user identifiable information, then searches Google and returns "clean" (non-trackable/non-customized) results.

DuckDuckGo is actually somewhat more private than Startpage. Startpage is officially a Google partner, so it is not 100% clean; some user identifiable information (specifically, your IP address) is sent to Google.

DuckDuckGo (Wikipedia)
IxQuick/Startpage (Wikipedia)
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Top
#42424 - 10/30/16 12:54 PM Re: browser [Re: tacit]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: tacit
DuckDuckGo is actually somewhat more private than Startpage. Startpage is officially a Google partner, so it is not 100% clean; some user identifiable information (specifically, your IP address) is sent to Google.

DuckDuckGo (Wikipedia)
IxQuick/Startpage (Wikipedia)

Hmmmmm, interesting. Two questions:

1. If only the IP Address is sent to Google, of what use is that set of numbers to them?

2. The Wikipedia article was quite supportive of DuckDuckGo.

I'm not one to change horses midstream but I am having a problem getting StartPage on Safari in my wife's account. I assume, if I was to elect to go with it rather than Startpage, it'd simple be a matter of choosing DuckDuckGo in the Preferences in both her account and mine. Yes?

Edit: Okay, make that three, er, four questions.

I notice that, while neither StartPage nor IxQuick leave cookies, they do leave caches. Should I care? Any downside in removing them?


Edited by ryck (10/30/16 02:00 PM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
#42425 - 10/30/16 02:23 PM Re: browser [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
You're correct about setting DuckDuckGo as a pref; you'd have to do it in both accounts.

I totally lost track of your problem with your wife's account; I'd report it to StartPage's developer as a bug.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#42426 - 10/30/16 03:36 PM Re: browser [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
You might take a look at this comparison of DuckDuckGo and StartPage. It not only compares the two it also gives a succinct description about how StartPage works and hides your data. StartPage's method for hiding your information and location is pretty slick.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#42427 - 10/30/16 04:10 PM Re: browser [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: tacit
DuckDuckGo is actually somewhat more private than Startpage. Startpage is officially a Google partner, so it is not 100% clean; some user identifiable information (specifically, your IP address) is sent to Google.

joemikeb's linked article doesn't mention a specific StartPage/Google partnership (although it does note that search results are from Google), but it does mention a DDG/Yahoo partnership.

And this appears to contradict your IP address statement...

Originally Posted By: StartPage
StartPage ~ the world's most private search engine on October 27, 2016 Reply
StartPage is an independent company, separate from Google. We do not share your IP address with Google or with any provider of sponsored search results or ads.

StartPage acts as an intermediary between you and Google. StartPage submits your query to Google anonymously, then returns Google results to you privately. Google never sees you and does not know who made the search request; they only see StartPage.

Since Google never sees your IP address or interacts with your web browser, you do not receive tracking cookies from Google. What’s more, since Google can’t determine your interests based on your past search history, you receive standard search results rather than Google’s “personalized” results.

We never record your visits, your searches, or your IP address, and we do not use tracking cookies. Any ads that appear on StartPage are generated solely from the search term you entered. Ads are not customized for the person entering the search nor do they reflect your prior search or browsing history, since we never access or store that information.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#42428 - 10/30/16 05:16 PM Re: browser [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
I totally lost track of your problem with your wife's account; I'd report it to StartPage's developer as a bug.

I have and I'm impressed. I entered my concern at the StartPage website and 25 minutes later had an email, from a person with a name, asking for more information. When I learn more, I'll post.
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  alternaut, dianne, MacManiac