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#41953 - 09/25/16 01:32 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I realize that most of us have TV reception but I'm an exception. I killed my cable subscription several years ago because I refused to watch the garbage that was being broadcast. In view of the importance of the presidential debates, I was feeling sorry about that.

For those who, like me, are without TV, you can access the debates at https://www.c-span.org I'll be glued to my computer screen.
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#41955 - 09/25/16 03:17 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'm in the same situation as you, Jon, and I was already aware that the debates can be viewed on line, but I still haven't convinced myself that I want to watch.

I fear that the moderation is going to be so poor that I'll be liable to throw my MBP through the window.
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#41957 - 09/25/16 05:58 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
If they haven't already voted by mail — absolutely YES. Texas has spent millions of taxpayer dollars losing not one but two federal lawsuits over voter identification requirements that were designed to make it as difficult as possible for African-americans, Asian-americans, hispanic-americans. and any other hyphenated-americans to vote. However, if you are a registered voter all that you have to do to vote by mail is send in a form (it can be done on-line) saying you plan to be out of town on Election Day or you are 65 years old or older and you will receive a ballot, a ballot envelope, and a return envelope by mail without ever having provided proof of citizenship.
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#41960 - 09/26/16 02:04 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: ryck
I look forward to Monday's editorial wherein they will explain "... why we believe Mr. Trump to be the worst nominee put forward by a major party in modern American history."

You wanted it. You got it.

Why Donald Trump Should Not Be President

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#41975 - 09/26/16 09:13 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: joemikeb]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Texas has spent millions of taxpayer dollars losing not one but two federal lawsuits over voter identification requirements...

However, if you are a registered voter all that you have to do to vote by mail is send in a form ... without ever having provided proof of citizenship.

It’s rather ironic that many conservatives think that ID issues with physical voting is an important source of voter fraud in this day and age. So far, however, not a single in-depth investigation anywhere has found that it is. But, as you rightly notice, strict ID requirements are proven to disenfranchise the poor and various minorities very effectively.

In marked contrast, absentee voting systems are wide open to massive and cheap fraud, as in many cases all that’s needed is ID info that’s floating around on the internet by the hundreds of millions (e.g., from the latest Yahoo hack). Interestingly, I haven’t heard much if anything about that from the ‘concerned’ electorate.
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#41997 - 09/27/16 05:21 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
….I was already aware that the debates can be viewed on line, but I still haven't convinced myself that I want to watch.

If you chose not to watch, you can always have a look at NPR's annotated and fact-checked transcipt.
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#41999 - 09/27/16 06:43 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I did skip the debate, ryck, but I've already done some reading, although not the particular doc to which you linked. Thanks for the link, though.
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#42003 - 09/27/16 08:53 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: alternaut]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: alternaut
It’s rather ironic that many conservatives think that ID issues with physical voting is an important source of voter fraud in this day and age. So far, however, not a single in-depth investigation anywhere has found that it is. But, as you rightly notice, strict ID requirements are proven to disenfranchise the poor and various minorities very effectively.

I disagree that conservatives "think that ID issues with physical voting is an important source of voter fraud" I think that for too many it is just a thinly veiled attempt to disenfranchise anyone they consider to not be like them — white, late middle aged or older, and at least here in Texas, clinging to the illusion they are still the majority when in truth there is no social, racial, ethnic, nationality, that has 50% or more of the states population. (The is one majority group, Straight, but the vast majority is not concerned about that any more.)

Originally Posted By: alternaut
In marked contrast, absentee voting systems are wide open to massive and cheap fraud, as in many cases all that’s needed is ID info that’s floating around on the internet by the hundreds of millions (e.g., from the latest Yahoo hack). Interestingly, I haven’t heard much if anything about that from the ‘concerned’ electorate.

However, given right wing 2d Amendment advocates and Trump supporters are promising openly armed patrols around polling places in "suspect" neighborhoods (read that as "minority") supposedly outside of the "no electioneering" zone but placed to screen anyone arriving at the polls on Election Day, mail balloting is a d#$% sight safer. It has crossed my mind that if those threats are carried out the entire election in the state could be ruled illegal. The Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and Attorney General (all three are fighting criminal indictments) might like that. It would give them the excuse they want to secede from the Union. Of course any legal right Texas had to do that was signed away with the terms of surrender at the end of the Civil War, but they conveniently overlook that fact.
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#42007 - 09/28/16 11:07 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Shortly after the election, President Trump is in a rare contemplative mood….

Meanwhile, a man died and went to Heaven. As he stood in front of the Pearly Gates, he saw a huge wall of clocks behind him. He asked, "What are all those clocks for?"



St. Peter answered, "Those are Lie-Clocks. Everyone who has ever been on earth has a Lie-Clock. Every time you tell a lie, the hands on your clock move."



"Oh", said the man. "Whose clock is that?"



"That's Mother Teresa's", replied St. Peter. "The hands have never moved, indicating that she never told a lie."



"Incredible", said the man. "And whose clock is that one?"



St. Peter responded, "That's Abraham Lincoln's clock. The hands have moved twice, telling us that Abraham told only two lies in his entire life."



"Where's Donald Trump's clock?" asked the man.



St. Peter replied, "We're using it as a ceiling fan."


Edited by ryck (09/28/16 11:07 AM)
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#42017 - 10/01/16 02:54 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Gail Collins, op-ed columnist, reviews Election Day choices ... choices ... choices ...

How Could Anyone Vote for Trump?

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#42018 - 10/01/16 11:35 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: grelber]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: grelber
Gail Collins, op-ed columnist, reviews Election Day choices ...[/url]


Really like this analogy: "...you certainly can’t argue that Donald Trump doesn’t represent change. We’re just hoping people realize it’s the kind of change you get if you decide to remove the trash by driving a bulldozer through the kitchen."


Edited by ryck (10/01/16 11:36 AM)
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#42023 - 10/02/16 01:59 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Trump Tax Records Reveal He Could Have Avoided Paying Taxes for Years

• The Times obtained records from 1995 that show that Donald J. Trump declared a loss of $916 million.
• A tax deduction so large could have allowed him to legally avoid paying any federal income taxes for up to 18 years, experts say.

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#42028 - 10/02/16 01:24 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: grelber]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Lewis Carroll must have had this election in mind when he wrote Alice In Wonderland.
Ten times Trump shamed others on tax
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#42053 - 10/04/16 12:31 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Alice in Wonderland, indeed.

BloombergView editor Timothy O’Brien is one of the few people who has seen Donald Trump’s tax returns. “While I can’t write specifically about what I saw, I can say that the returns would give voters useful and tangible insights into Trump’s actual track record as a businessman, philanthropist and taxpayer.

But Trump has chosen not to release his returns, And I doubt he ever will, because they would reveal that the career he boasts so much about is built on sand.”

More from BloombergView here.
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#42054 - 10/04/16 01:38 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
“While I can’t write specifically about what I saw, I can say that the returns would give voters useful and tangible insights into Trump’s actual track record as a businessman, philanthropist and taxpayer.

I'll take that as explicit!
_________________________
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In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#42055 - 10/04/16 02:01 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
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#42085 - 10/07/16 03:46 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
And now there's a new spelling for vulgar: T - R - U - M - P
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#42088 - 10/07/16 06:18 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
In the long-form documentary "Requiem for the American Dream" (73 minutes) Noam Chomsky "exposes with searing clarity the forces and policies behind the coordinated campaign to concentrate wealth and power in the hands of a select few" [from package blurb].
(More commentary under Movies to see.)

His commentary on American elections — on selling the juice without the fruit, so to speak — is particularly relevant in the current environment.

Does this strike a chord?

The majority (70%) of the population has no way of influencing public policy and it knows it.
"What it's led to is a population that's angry, frustrated, hates institutions. It's not acting constructively to try to respond to this. There is popular mobilization and activism, but in very self-destructive directions. It's taking the form of unfocused anger, attacks on one another, and on vulnerable targets. That's what happens in cases like this. It is corrosive of social relations, but that's the point. The point is to make people hate and fear each other, and look out only for themselves, and don't do anything for anyone else."

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#42093 - 10/08/16 06:13 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
This morning Trump came out with a brief message that sounds like he's going to address his latest vulgar remarks with a defense along the lines of: "But Bill's worse." To me, that makes the debate tomorrow essential viewing.

The debate is not going to be two candidates behind podia answering questions from a moderator - it's a Town Hall format. There will be ordinary, undecided citizens asking their own questions in a sort of Theatre in the Round. Given that Trump has already "gone on the attack", it'll be interesting to see how this translates into debate tactics, and how those tactics are received by the citizens on the stage.


Edited by ryck (10/08/16 06:14 AM)
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#42096 - 10/08/16 11:47 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Apropos of that, remember that he "went easy on Hillary" in the first debate... supposedly not mentioning Bill because Chelsea was in the audience.

I can't imagine how he'll use Bill Clinton's actions to either justify or even dignify his own.

You're right, though; it will be interesting (and maybe I'll even force myself to watch).
_________________________
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In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#42098 - 10/08/16 12:38 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
I can't imagine how he'll use Bill Clinton's actions to either justify or even dignify his own.

I'm still trying to figure out the Trump logic that something he said 10 years ago doesn't matter because it was "10 years ago" but the actions of a person 25 years ago do matter.

Originally Posted By: artie505
You're right, though; it will be interesting (and maybe I'll even force myself to watch).

Separate from the content, the Town Hall aspect will prove very interesting. It's a format that requires a particular set of skills, which I don't believe Trump has but Clinton does.
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#42099 - 10/08/16 12:48 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
I'm still trying to figure out the Trump logic that something he said 10 years ago doesn't matter because it was "10 years ago" but the actions of a person 25 years ago do matter.

You just haven't been paying attention; that logic is fully in keeping with his logic about everything he's ever said or done.

Edit: The sad (and I hope not ultimately unfortunate) fact of the matter is that Trump just can't be judged in the same context as a well-balanced, emotionally stable person.

Edit 2: Yeah, I'm gonna indulge my masochistic tendencies and watch. frown


Edited by artie505 (10/08/16 02:06 PM)
_________________________
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In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#42103 - 10/08/16 04:40 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
…...that logic is fully in keeping with his logic about everything he's ever said or done.

Hmmmm….perhaps the error has been in using the term 'logic', which usually assumes some sort of rational thought process.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Yeah, I'm gonna indulge my masochistic tendencies and watch. frown

Don't worry…it'll be worthwhile viewing. Just be sure to have a big bowl of popcorn.


Edited by ryck (10/08/16 04:54 PM)
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#42104 - 10/08/16 05:17 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
…...that logic is fully in keeping with his logic about everything he's ever said or done.

Hmmmm….perhaps the error has been in using the term 'logic', which usually assumes some sort of rational thought process.

Nope!

"Logic" is half of a hyphenated word, and what precedes the hyphen, "twisted", perhaps, in Trump's case governs.

Edit: The man simply hasn't got the moral fibre to ever admit that he's made a mistake (OK, the "ransom" video), so he twists everything around to make it right in his own head.

Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
Yeah, I'm gonna indulge my masochistic tendencies and watch. frown

Don't worry…it'll be worthwhile viewing. Just be sure to have a big bowl of popcorn.

Oh, I'm sure it will be more fun than a barrel full of monkeys, but it also may cause me more aggravation than I'm inclined to want to deal with.


Edited by artie505 (10/08/16 05:43 PM)
Edit Reason: More
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#42105 - 10/08/16 05:54 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
I can't imagine how he'll use Bill Clinton's actions to either justify or even dignify his own.

It'll be interesting to see how he'll try to dignify his comments, like these from the Howard Stern Show…..comments that CNN would not air because they are too vulgar for television.


Edited by ryck (10/08/16 05:55 PM)
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