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macOS Sierra
#41604 08/26/16 07:06 PM
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I'm wondering about whether installing macOS Sierra, when it's available, will hobble my MBP 17" (Mid 2010) with 2.66 GHz Dual Core i7 with 8 GB RAM. [I've got more than half of the HD available for install; so, no issues there.]

My hardware is smoothly running 10.11.6; but, this MBP hardware is getting long in the tooth. And, the specs are now close to the minimal line for 10.12.

I know I'll be able to install Sierra; but, will my MBP find Sierra a bit too much, resulting in key features not running in addition to seeing spinning pizzas too often?

My prior experience has been that 7 year old hardware might be underpowered for installing the newest OS. Waiting until the hardware is replaced, to enjoy the newest OS, might be wisest (least frustrating) option.

Thoughts? ...Anyone running the Sierra Beta on an older machine?


MacStudio M1max, 64 GB Ram, 4TB SSD - 12.4; Studio Display; iPhone 13mini; iPadPro (M1) 11" WiFi; Watch 7
Re: macOS Sierra
pbGuy #41605 08/26/16 08:39 PM
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I can't answer your question definitively, but I'll suggest that you just give Sierra a test run on a spare partition or external drive if you like what you hear about it.

Your own experience will always transcend hearsay.


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: macOS Sierra
pbGuy #41606 08/26/16 08:53 PM
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I am running the Sierra beta on a late 2012 Mac mini with essentially the same quad core i7 processor running 2.6 GHz and it is running fine. Admittedly I have 16 GB of RAM and an OWC Mercury SSD that have a significant impact on system performance. I realize that benchmark tests are designed to test the hardware and really do not reflect software performance, but the overall scores from three different benchmark suites show no statistically significant change between running MacOS 12 public beta 6 and El Capitan. Empirically I would say that my system feels a touch faster with Sierra than it did with El Capitan, but that could all be between the headsets.

There are probably be some relatively esoteric features that are dependent on some hardware functions that are not available in our CPU and therefore are force to run in software rather than hardware, and would be slower. On the other hand, as with most upgrades of OS X/Mac OS, there are low level functions which have become far more efficient and often more than offset any speed loss from additional feature load.


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Re: macOS Sierra
joemikeb #41610 08/27/16 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
... I have 16 GB of RAM and ... SSD


I'm wondering if 16 GB RAM (let alone, an SSD) could well make a real performance difference between my MBP, which is dual core, and your Mac mini, which is quad core. ...Agree / Disagree?

I've now decided I will do this upgrade + 10.12 updates. But given our discussion, I think I'll upgrade my hardware when the upgrade to Sierra appears.

Last edited by pbGuy; 08/27/16 05:54 PM. Reason: Afterthought

MacStudio M1max, 64 GB Ram, 4TB SSD - 12.4; Studio Display; iPhone 13mini; iPadPro (M1) 11" WiFi; Watch 7
Re: macOS Sierra
pbGuy #41611 08/27/16 07:58 PM
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The advantage of the quad core is dependent on the applications you are running and the specific mix running at any give time and is well beyond my ability to quantify. The extra 8 GB of RAM would come into play when you have lots of applications open and/or applications that require a lot of RAM. To be truthful those extra 8 GB have less performance impact with the vastly improved memory management techniques that were introduced in Yosemite.

Given the certain release of iOS 10 concurrent with the probably release of the iPhone 7 late this month and the fact MacOS 12 and iOS 10 beta releases have all been tightly synchronized you shouldn't have long to wait for that new hardware. 😉


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

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Re: macOS Sierra
joemikeb #41867 09/22/16 08:54 AM
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I moved a branch of posts to a separate thread in the Mac OS X Applications forum: DiskWarrior 5 Compatible With Sierra


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Re: macOS Sierra
joemikeb #41903 09/23/16 04:46 PM
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OS 10.6.8 8Gb RAM I have a spare external drive which i would like to install El Capitan on but I cannot find a way of actually installing it. The mac app store in Canada isn't accessible for some unknown reason. Is there any other option available? jaybass


OS 10.14.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD, Noise Ninja.
Re: macOS Sierra
jaybass #41904 09/23/16 04:58 PM
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See if the Apple web site has a link, other than the App Store. Canadian store should come back on line, no?


On a Mac since 1984.
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Re: macOS Sierra
joemikeb #41905 09/23/16 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
To be truthful those extra 8 GB have less performance impact with the vastly improved memory management techniques that were introduced in Yosemite.


I have 16 GB of installed RAM, running 10.11.6. Currently I have Safari open, Mail, Music, 2 small music related apps and a little over 6 GB of RAM are indicated as "Free". Glad to have 16 GB. smirk


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, 27" iMac, Macbook Air, macOS 10.15.x and MacOS 12; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
Re: macOS Sierra
jaybass #41908 09/23/16 05:54 PM
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Clone your 10.6.8 system to the drive and then boot from that drive. You should be able to get Sierra to install from App Store but I don't know if you can still get El Capitan. Do you have the latest version of 10.6.8? If you don't, that could account for the inability to access App Store (unless Apple has temporarily shut it down, which happens occasionally).


Jon

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Re: macOS Sierra
Ira L #41910 09/23/16 10:09 PM
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I have spent over a hour trying to find a download but no joy. BTW jon, I have the latest 10.6.8 and I have 2 external drives 1 of which I intended to use for El Capitan just to see if I wanted to keep it. jaybass


OS 10.14.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD, Noise Ninja.
Re: macOS Sierra
jaybass #41911 09/23/16 10:45 PM
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I think Virtual1 posted a long time ago that if oyu call Apple they can set up a d/l for you.

I've got the OS X 10.11.3 installer archived, and I'd be happy to burn it and mail it to you, but I don't know if an installer d/l'ed for my Mid 2015 MacBook Pro will work with your Mac.

Last edited by artie505; 09/23/16 11:53 PM. Reason: Make smarter

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Re: macOS Sierra
artie505 #41918 09/24/16 12:03 PM
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artie, I would be happy to accept your offer. How do we contact each other?
jaybass


OS 10.14.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD, Noise Ninja.
macOS Sierra
jaybass #41920 09/24/16 12:15 PM
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Jon

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Re: macOS Sierra
jaybass #41922 09/24/16 03:44 PM
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Before we go any farther, jaybass, it occurred to me that I ought to ask if anybody thinks my doing this would be a violation of Apple's EULA.

I read through it, and it seems kinda generic, so I'm not sure if it really applies to freely distributed software such as El Cap.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: macOS Sierra
artie505 #41925 09/24/16 05:38 PM
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I wouldn't think so...considering it's free, what to object? I'm in favour.
jaybass


OS 10.14.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD, Noise Ninja.
Re: macOS Sierra
jaybass #41926 09/24/16 06:48 PM
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Free or not OS X or MacOS is still a licensed product for use on one Apple Computer. However, it is doubtful that Apple is going to come after either of you unless you set up to distribute, sell, or modify the OS and/or installer in any fashion. They aren't even going to come after you for installing on a hackintosh but they sure aren't going to support your use on a hackintosh.


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Re: macOS Sierra
joemikeb #41927 09/24/16 06:57 PM
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artie, In view of joe's response, and considering I'm in no hurry, I think I'll wait and see if I can find a download on the internet. Thanks joe. jaybass


OS 10.14.6 iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4. SuperDuper. 1 TB Lacie HD, Noise Ninja.
Re: macOS Sierra
joemikeb #41928 09/24/16 07:00 PM
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Joe, within the constraints of your NDA could you please summarize your perceptions of the relative strengths and relative drawbacks to updating to macOS at this point.

I realize that you are actively evaluating the 12.1 beta and any comments that you could offer on waiting to perform the update to macOS until 12.1 is stable and released would be greatly appreciated as well.

Your long-standing membership in this community (and the MacFixit Forums that preceded it) as well as your background in the world of computing and training/documenting same provides a very valuable perspective.

Thanks in advance.....


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Re: macOS Sierra
jaybass #41930 09/24/16 07:53 PM
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I expected joemike's response, but since I had already posted here I had to ask. (On the other hand, though, if push comes to shove, my El Cap will be transferrable when/if I upgrade to Sierra.)

I'd try calling Apple; they must still have El Cap available for users who haven't upgraded yet and whose Macs can't run Sierra.

I found Download El Capitan.DMG...without Apple store, but I don't know if it's still a good link. (I've got no knowledge of macdrug.com, but the Google search responses I read were all positive...not that anything makes me particularly anxious to d/l OS X from a party other than Apple.)

Edit: Actually, I've always found it kind of amusing that we, here, are so fastidious about Apple's EULA while Apple does absolutely nothing about the bootleg OS X installers that litter eBay (and perhaps other venues).

Last edited by artie505; 09/24/16 08:23 PM.

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: macOS Sierra
MacManiac #41931 09/24/16 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: MacManiac
Joe, within the constraints of your NDA could you please summarize your perceptions of the relative strengths and relative drawbacks to updating to macOS at this point. (Emphasis added)

I read that several times as "DNA", and I wonder if joemike's response would be different if it were? grin


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: macOS Sierra
MacManiac #41932 09/24/16 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: MacManiac
Joe, within the constraints of your NDA could you please summarize your perceptions of the relative strengths and relative drawbacks to updating to macOS at this point.

Given I am a inveterate or chronic early adopter my viewpoint is admittedly colored but I will try to keep my predilections in check.
  • PRO
    • According to several sources including MacRumors and AppleInsider MacOS 10.12 (Sierra) is one of the most trouble free upgrades in years. 😎 In my personal experience any application issues I encountered in the early betas were taken care of long before the release with one exception. But that exception is the fault of a third party developer not Apple, and it turns out I have already come up with a workaround that may be a better option. The list of remaining incompatibilities is is remarkably short.
    • Admittedly I am an enthusiastic user of iCloud, and iOS devices as well as Mac computers. There are several features in Sierra that make the integration of these three platforms much more seamless. Any data or files that are available on my Mac are transparently available on my iPad Pro and my iPhone. Interestingly enough I have run into situations where something that I could not easily do on my Mac I could easily do on my iPad Pro, for example "signing" a PDF document — that is a real signatuire, not an electronic signature. ✍️ Because of the close integration I find I am beginning to use my iPad Pro for much (most?) of the graphics work so I can use the Apple pen to draw, but relying on the Mac for the grunt work of keyboard entry and data management. It is not a case of choosing one or the other rather of which is best suited for the particular task at hand. 😀
    • If you have a Mac with a small SSD or HD and are getting pretty cramped for disk space the ability to move the Documents folder and Desktop to iCloud can free up a lot of storage space in a hurry. 👍 (This has nothing to do with immediate upgrading, but the iCloud Documents, Photos, Music, and Desktop are causing me to seriously rethink how much storage capacity I will need on my next desktop Mac, This is a great opportunity to save some money.) The only time you are likely to notice would be if you open an old file that is no longer mirrored on the local drive, or you have slow or no high speed internet. I have used documents from the iCloud documents folder on my iPad Pro (which does not have cellular capabiity) via a hotspot created by my iPhone from a 4G cellular connection, and it worked great. (No cell capability on the iPad saved $100 or so at purchase time plus $15 a month for the separate data connection. 👏)
    • There is a lot of stuff going on under the hood in Sierra that improve security and are paving the way for even more significant security options in the future. This is not necessarily a reason to change quickly, but it is a reason to change sooner rather than later.
    • There is a long laundry list of small but significant enhancements to the standard Apple apps in Sierra that take some time to become accustomed to such as tabs every where, and in Maps the ability to merge tabs. Doesn't sound like much but if you are trip planning it is genius. 😊
    • There has been an almost continuous flow of app updates taking advantage of some of the new features in Sierra such as tabs and Siri and that is likely to result in new versions that are not compatible with older versions of OS X. 😳
    • Siri is not a reason to upgrade immediately, but it does get to be habit forming quickly.😉
    • Most of the low level stuff does not directly effect applications unless the developer chooses to implement the new features so that risk is minimized.👌
  • CON
    • Some older versions of costly apps such as Adobe are unlikely to ever be compatible with Sierra but that has always been true with Apple upgrades
    • While Diskwarrior has announced Sierra comptibility there are a number of utilities such as Tech Tool Pro, Tinkertool, Tinkertool System, Cocktail, OnyX(?), that have not yet been certified as Sierra compatible.
    • As with almost all OS X upgrades some things have moved to new menues or locations and some old favorites have either disappeared or become harder to find 😡
    • Some older devices have fallen off the the compatibility list 😫
    • Some hardware devices, mice, etc that use proprietary drivers do not play nice with Sierra — yet. 🙄
    • Anyone hanging onto a bunch of old semi-supported or unsupported apps is likely to be in the position of seeking replacements (Probably part of the impetus behind Apple's recent move to clean out the App Store).


"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: macOS Sierra
joemikeb #41933 09/24/16 09:28 PM
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TinkerTool 6 is compatible with Sierra as is TinkerTool System 5. There is a Sierra edition of Cocktail. (Click on the Download button to see all available versions.) In addition, Logitech has introduced Sierra compatibility to several of its drivers.


Jon

macOS 11.6.7, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: macOS Sierra
joemikeb #41934 09/24/16 09:36 PM
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Thanks Joe, your response was EXACTLY what I was hoping to see here.....and will hopefully be very helpful to many who are considering this upgrade path.

I personally plan to wait for the release of the 12.1 update prior to making the move on my primary computer.....my other(s) may be too mature (read that as "old") to be capable of making the move. This decision is not based on any fear of the upgrade, but rather as a preponderance of caution where my TechTool Pro 8 utility is concerned....that appears to be the only third-party application which I routinely depend upon which hasn't (yet) been confirmed as macOS compatible.

Edit: Having just visited the MicroMat home site, I now see that with macOS 10.12 I will need to upgrade to TTP9 for Sierra compatibility....

Last edited by MacManiac; 09/24/16 09:55 PM.

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Re: macOS Sierra
MacManiac #41935 09/24/16 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: MacManiac
Having just visited the MicroMat home site, I now see that with macOS 10.12 I will need to upgrade to TTP9 for Sierra compatibility....

I haven't upgraded DiskWarrior and TechTool Pro past v 4 and v6, respectively, and still won't for Sierra, because their downloadability has made them instantly obtainable if I ever need them.

DW isn't as bad as TTP which is now three versions past my v6, and who knows how many more will come and go before I actually need a current version.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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