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#41162 - 07/15/16 10:08 PM Safari vs Firefox stability difference
JoBoy Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
I use Safari Version 9.1.1 (11601.6.17) with ElCapitan 10.11.5. ElCapitan was updated by Apple May 16, 2016. (I installed that update June 8, 2016). I thought that the update was an improvement in the general operation of my Mac Pro. However, Safari would yield smooth operation for about 6 to ten operations after which it stalled and froze. I therefore must close the Safari window and open a new one. Occasionally that is not enough to remedy the freeze and I have to reboot, after which things work just fine until another freeze. This may be related to the fact that my Mac Pro is Early 2008 with two 2.8GHz Quad-CoreIntel Xeon processors and 16GB of 800 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM memory.

Today, I decided to try Firefox instead of Safari. I flogged my machine for over an hour without any freezing whatsoever. I stopped the session because I wanted to and not because I had to. I have no personal preference between Safari and Firefox, but I have to say that I was very impressed with today's comparison. I would probably lean toward using Safari simply because it is an Apple product. Is there any way to eliminate these annoying freezes or do I just wait for the next upgrade?


Edited by cyn (07/15/16 10:45 PM)
Edit Reason: Topic moved from the Lounge to the Networking forum.
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Mac Pro dual Quad-Core Intel Xeons Early 2008; 16GB RAM; MacOS X 10.11.6, iOS 9.3.5

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#41166 - 07/16/16 02:09 AM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: JoBoy]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: JoBoy
... I would probably lean toward using Safari simply because it is an Apple product. Is there any way to eliminate these annoying freezes or do I just wait for the next upgrade?

I think you answered your own question.

I opted for Firefox from the get-go (using Mac OS X Lion) since upgrading to Safari 6 was a virtual impossibility for me. From time to time I use Safari 5 (which came installed on my iMac) but I don't like it.

Opera and Google Chrome are two other browsers you might wish to check out. They should work slickly with your system.

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#41167 - 07/16/16 09:26 AM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: JoBoy]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I have been using the Safari Technology Preview since early El Capitan and the only time I have encountered any freezes has been when either the target site froze or an advertising site called by the target site was blocked by Ad Guard or some other ad. Blocker. Safari Technology Preview is not the same as the nightly build. Rather it is a version of Safari where Apple is trying out new features, rendering engine and JavaScript engine enhancements etc.

FWIW I have had at least one hang on Sierra (MacOS 12), but I don't think that had anything to do with Safari Technology Preview.
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#41168 - 07/16/16 10:45 AM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: joemikeb]
JoBoy Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
The only blocker I have is MacScan 3, but it applies equally to both Safari and Firefox. It sounds like Apple has ceased upgrading my current Safari and that you are suggesting Safari Technology Preview for ElCapitan as an Apple replacement until Sierra is available to the masses.

Do I understand correctly?
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Mac Pro dual Quad-Core Intel Xeons Early 2008; 16GB RAM; MacOS X 10.11.6, iOS 9.3.5

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#41169 - 07/16/16 12:08 PM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: JoBoy]
crarko Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Minnesota USA
Safari for Yosemite and El Capitan should both continue receiving updates (minimally at least security updates) for the time being. I think the policy has been to support the two previous versions when a new one comes out.

Out of curiosity, do you have Flash enabled in your browsers? Other plugins?
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The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth. - Niels Bohr

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#41170 - 07/16/16 04:14 PM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: JoBoy]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: JoBoy
The only blocker I have is MacScan 3, but it applies equally to both Safari and Firefox.

I am not familiar with MacScan 3 but you might try disabling it to see if your hangs continue to occur. It is a simple enough test to be sure you are attacking the right problem.

I was having a hang but it was on a particular site. I finally ended up having to block a specific URL that was called from the site before I could get in. I still don't know what was coming from that particular URL that was causing Safari to hang, but after I blocked the URL the site works perfectly. Apparently it was called from a third party security feature used on the site I was accessing.

Originally Posted By: JoBoy
It sounds like Apple has ceased upgrading my current Safari and that you are suggesting Safari Technology Preview for ElCapitan as an Apple replacement until Sierra is available to the masses.

Do I understand correctly?

Apple has not stopped supporting Safari (fixing bugs, fine tuning, enhancing security etc) and they will continue to release updates to the version of Safari that shipped in El Capitan not to mention the version that will ship in Sierra when it goes into full release. I was suggesting that because there is different code used in Safari Technology Preview it might be worth trying to see if the different code eliminates the problem. 👍

Safari Technology Preview is where Apple tests new code and[/b] features that [b]may be in a future upgrade of Safari. By-the-way there is a Safari Technology Preview for El Capitan and another Safari Technology Preview for Sierra. I ran the El Capitan version for several months and through several up[I]dates[/u] until I installed the Sierra public beta and now I am running the Sierra version but there has not been any updates to either Sierra public beta or Safari Technology Preview for Sierra — yet. 😀
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#41216 - 07/20/16 02:11 PM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: crarko]
JoBoy Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
I have Acrobat Player DC and Flash Player. I get them from the Adobe Web Site and they are both current.

Since I sent the message that I had not received any updates, I have received several for both my computer and also for my iPhone4S.

I apologize for the complaint. I have been out of town and very occupied with that venture so this is the first convenient time I could reply. Thanks.


Edited by JoBoy (07/20/16 02:33 PM)
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Mac Pro dual Quad-Core Intel Xeons Early 2008; 16GB RAM; MacOS X 10.11.6, iOS 9.3.5

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#41217 - 07/20/16 02:44 PM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: joemikeb]
JoBoy Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Please see my reply to crarko.

As far as I'm concerned, the Safari Technology Preview for El Capitan is interesting. How do I find it and download it?


Edited by JoBoy (07/20/16 08:24 PM)
_________________________
Mac Pro dual Quad-Core Intel Xeons Early 2008; 16GB RAM; MacOS X 10.11.6, iOS 9.3.5

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#41218 - 07/20/16 02:52 PM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: JoBoy]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Safari Technology Preview download

NOTE: there are versions for El Capitan and Sierra
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#41225 - 07/20/16 08:21 PM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: joemikeb]
JoBoy Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
I downloaded and installed it, but it will take a while to arrange all of the items. In the meantime, I'm using Firefox to communicate this and all other messages until I get Safari Technology Preview set up. Given my current work load, it may take a little while to finish the job.

Thanks again.
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Mac Pro dual Quad-Core Intel Xeons Early 2008; 16GB RAM; MacOS X 10.11.6, iOS 9.3.5

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#41267 - 07/24/16 10:12 AM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: joemikeb]
JoBoy Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Safari Technology Preview is far better than the current regular Safari in my setup. It has decreased my need for Firefox. Obituaries that do not work with regular Safari work just fine using Safari Technology Preview. Thanks a lot for the tip!
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Mac Pro dual Quad-Core Intel Xeons Early 2008; 16GB RAM; MacOS X 10.11.6, iOS 9.3.5

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#41408 - 08/06/16 11:04 PM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: joemikeb]
JoBoy Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
I have had zero difficulty using Safari Technology Preview. It's a jewel. Thanks again for the suggestion.
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Mac Pro dual Quad-Core Intel Xeons Early 2008; 16GB RAM; MacOS X 10.11.6, iOS 9.3.5

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#41615 - 08/28/16 08:50 PM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: JoBoy]
JoBoy Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
I read somewhere that the next Mac operating system would NOT be compatible with an iPhone 4S. If that is true, El Capitan is the last OS that will be compatible with my iPhone 4S. Acting on that information, I have gone back to regular Safari and have discarded the Safari Technology Preview that I have been using. I have had virtually no problems with Safari Technology Preview, but, if the rumor is correct, I feel I should go back to an App that has Apple's blessing for my iPhone.

Another item is that I have had "automatic" iCloud Backups at many different times of day. For example, tonight I put the iPhone to bed and the automatic backup occurred at 9:15pm. In my experience, there is no set time for a regular iCloud Backup. A record for me on one end of the spectrum is 5:25pm. On the other end, it is about 2:30am. It appears that plugging in the phone and setting the dark panel that shows the time with a line saying "slide to unlock" starts the process for an iCloud backup regardless of time of day.
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Mac Pro dual Quad-Core Intel Xeons Early 2008; 16GB RAM; MacOS X 10.11.6, iOS 9.3.5

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#41616 - 08/29/16 08:53 AM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: JoBoy]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: JoBoy
I read somewhere that the next Mac operating system would NOT be compatible with an iPhone 4S. If that is true, El Capitan is the last OS that will be compatible with my iPhone 4S. Acting on that information, I have gone back to regular Safari and have discarded the Safari Technology Preview that I have been using. I have had virtually no problems with Safari Technology Preview, but, if the rumor is correct, I feel I should go back to an App that has Apple's blessing for my iPhone.
You did not cite your source of information, but I have not seen anything about that from any of my sources including Apple Computer and my own experience with MacOS 12 (Sierra) and iOS 10 on both an iPhone and an iPad. Any compatibility issue between the Mac or a PC would be related to iTunes and should have nothing to do with the browser no matter whether it is Safari, Safari Technology Preview, FireFox, Chrome, Opera, iCab, Slepnir, etc. So you can safely go back to using Safari Technology Preview.

It appears you are conflating MacOS (nee OS X) on the Mac with iOS on the iPhone/iPad/iPod and maybe even TV OS. All three are based on the same Unix kernel and their releases, even beta releases, are almost invariably simultaneous, but they are different, in some respects very different, operating systems for very different devices. The iPhone. iPad, and iPod run the iOS operating system and I have not seen anything to indicate an iPhone 4S will not run iOS 10 which will probably be released toward the end of September, if the most prevalent rumors are true. However due to hardware limitations not all of the latest features of iOS 10 will be available, but that was true with iOS 9 as well. As far as synching with your Mac goes there should be no issue. The iPhone 4 is a different situation however and is limited to iOS 7.1.2.

Even if your iPhone 4S could not run iOS 10, it can run iOS 9 and there is no reason to believe there would be any compatibility issues with Sierra (MacOS 12). About the only interface between MacOS/OS X and iOS devices is for backup to iTunes. NOTE: at some point I expect iTunes on MacOS to break up into three separate apps Music, iTunes Store, and App Store as it already has on iOS devices but that has not shown up in the MacOS 12 (Sierra) yet.

Originally Posted By: JoBoy
Another item is that I have had "automatic" iCloud Backups at many different times of day. For example, tonight I put the iPhone to bed and the automatic backup occurred at 9:15pm. In my experience, there is no set time for a regular iCloud Backup. A record for me on one end of the spectrum is 5:25pm. On the other end, it is about 2:30am. It appears that plugging in the phone and setting the dark panel that shows the time with a line saying "slide to unlock" starts the process for an iCloud backup regardless of time of day.
This has been discussed previously at some length and the consensus is...
  1. The automatic backiup happens when your iPhone is…
    1. attached to power
    2. locked (going to sleep will work just as well)
    3. Connected to a WiFi network
  2. the time of the automatic backup is generally some time between 11:00 PM and the very early morning hours but the specific time appears to be somewhat random or at least controlled by factors invisible to the individual user
  3. You can force a backup even without the iOS device being connected to power or asleep by going to Settings ➭ iCloud ➭ Backup ➭ Backup Now
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#41619 - 08/29/16 07:56 PM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: joemikeb]
JoBoy Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
I admit failing to provide provenance for my statements yesterday. Also, my main concern was my MacPro. The source is http://www.macrumors.com/roundup/macos-sierra/.

Compatible Macs:
macOS Sierra will run on the following Macs:

2009 and later

iMac

MacBook

2010 and later

MacBook Air

MacBook Pro

Mac mini

Mac Pro

My Mac Pro is Mac Pro early 2008 MacPro3,1. Thus, my Mac Pro appears to be two years too old for Sierra.
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Regarding the iPhone 4S, there is a problem.

See http://www.macrumors.com/roundup/ios-10/

Release Date:
"iOS 10 is available on the iPhone 5 and later, iPad mini 2 and later, iPad 4 and later, and the 6th generation iPod touch. It will be released to the public in the fall alongside new iOS devices."

Again, all of this post is taken from MacRumors. So, it appears to me that both my iPod 4S and my Mac Pro 3,1 are not suitable for Sierra. That's not a disaster for me since I expect to upgrade in the next few months and El Capitan is running as smooth as silk for me.
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Mac Pro dual Quad-Core Intel Xeons Early 2008; 16GB RAM; MacOS X 10.11.6, iOS 9.3.5

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#41623 - 08/30/16 08:13 AM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: JoBoy]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: JoBoy
... El Capitan is the last OS that will be compatible with my iPhone 4S.

...So, it appears to me that both my iPod 4S and my Mac Pro 3,1 are not suitable for Sierra.

Once again your statements appear to indicate you are conflating several somewhat related operating systems and devices into an incoherent whole. This is a case where names are crucial to accurate understanding of what is going on. So to be sure we are both on the same page...
  1. OS X has been renamed MacOS
  2. Sierra is the code name for MacOS 12
    1. MacOS 12 runs only on Macintosh computers
    2. MacOS 12 is the upcoming replacement for OS X 10.x
    3. MacOS 12 will not run on any mobile device ie iPhone, iPad, or iPod
  3. iOS (there is no published code name for iOS releases)
    1. iOS is an operating system intended for use only on iPhones, iPads, and iPods
    2. iOS 10 is the replacement for iOS 9
    3. the iOS operating sytem will not run on a Mac computer
  4. tvOS is the operating system of the Apple TV
  5. MacOS, iOS, and tvOS are all built on top of the open source Darwin kernel which is based on elements from the Mach 3 and BSD strains of Unix
  6. Apple is striving to make the user interface, look and feel consistent across the MacOS, iOS, tvOS platforms and thereforfe there is a lot of common code in the OS as well as the standard applications.
  7. Releases of the three operating systems are often synchronized

I will not quarrel with what you read on Mac Rumors, they have access to a lot more information than I do as well as a lot more time to go digging for information. Be that as it may in regard to your assertion…
Originally Posted By: JoBoy
I read somewhere that the next Mac operating system would NOT be compatible with an iPhone 4S. If that is true, El Capitan is the last OS that will be compatible with my iPhone 4S. Acting on that information, I have gone back to regular Safari and have discarded the Safari Technology Preview that I have been using. I have had virtually no problems with Safari Technology Preview, but, if the rumor is correct, I feel I should go back to an App that has Apple's blessing for my iPhone.
I still sand by my argument that…
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Any compatibility issue between the Mac or a PC would be related to iTunes and should have nothing to do with the browser no matter whether it is Safari, Safari Technology Preview, FireFox, Chrome, Opera, iCab, Slepnir, etc. So you can safely go back to using Safari Technology Preview.

<snip>

Even if your iPhone 4S could not run iOS 10, it can run iOS 9 and there is no reason to believe there would be any compatibility issues with Sierra (MacOS 12). About the only interface between MacOS/OS X and iOS devices is for backup to iTunes.

…and I would add to that it is an absolute certainty that Sierra will not run on your iPod 4S (I presume you meant iPhone 4s) and similarly iOS 10 absolutely will not run on your Mac Pro3,1.

FWIW I am waiting to see what Apple intends to do with the Mac Pro and Mac mini lines. Both are long overdue for refreshing or even more than refreshing. I am ready for an upgrade too. 😎
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#41626 - 08/30/16 10:58 AM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: joemikeb]
JoBoy Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
With all due respect and painfully aware of my shortcomings, I ask you to look carefully at Post number #41619 - Yesterday at 09:56 PM

I carefully separated the Macintosh OS issues from the iPhone issues until the very end when I unfortunately stated both my "iPod" 4S and Mac Pro 3,1 had problems with upgrades. That last statement was done in haste as you can tell by my typing iPod instead of iPhone. Earlier in that same post, I showed separate problems for each machine and stated the location in the MacRumors article for each separate problem.

Moreover, I also cannot ignore the fact that my iPhone must "plug" into the Macintosh to accomplish the software updates, backups, and sync with the iPhone. For these reasons, I tend to see the iPhone as a functional appendage to the Macintosh and not as a completely separate and independent device. I hope that this reply is more correct than the previous ones.


Edited by JoBoy (08/30/16 11:02 AM)
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Mac Pro dual Quad-Core Intel Xeons Early 2008; 16GB RAM; MacOS X 10.11.6, iOS 9.3.5

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#41653 - 09/07/16 04:49 AM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: JoBoy]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: JoBoy
I read somewhere that the next Mac operating system would NOT be compatible with an iPhone 4S

iTunes is probably the bigger issue than Mac OS X. That's what it needs to be compatible with. So the question becomes more one of what you will have to do with iTunes than anything else. If the next OS X requires the latest iTunes, and that doesn't support your 4s, then you will have a problem.
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#41751 - 09/15/16 06:43 PM Re: Safari vs Firefox stability difference [Re: Virtual1]
JoBoy Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Yes, but I won't move up to the next OS X until I have purchased a new iPhone and a new Mac Pro.
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