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#3797 - 09/15/09 02:07 PM Rsync and Snow Leopard
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
I'm having problems using Rsync to make a bootable backup of a Snow Leopard installation. It will back up the install disk, but will typically kernel panic early in the boot process when booting an rsync backup of an installation.

sudo "~/rsync_306_intel" -aHAXx --delete -v --progress --numeric-ids --exclude=private/var/vm/* --exclude=.fseventsd/* -- "/Volumes/Snow Leopard MP GUID/" "/Volumes/Service Snow/"

Is the command I'm using. The sync goes without errors, and rerunning it only syncs those things that tend to get continuously updated. (spotlight, store files, etc)

My service drive is formatted APS (not GUID). Yes it boots intel fine despite what apple says. But the installer refuses to install to it so I have to install to another drive and then somehow get it over to my drive. Come to think of it I suppose I can try to create dmg from install and restore it to the service snow volume... but I really need to get the sync working because I have 1/2 dozen drives here that need it and I don't want to rebuild the service partition 6x and keep manually updating each of them all the time.

This rsync command works fine for anything 9.2.1 through 10.5.8.
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#3798 - 09/15/09 02:51 PM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: Virtual1]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
I don't see what's wrong with your command, but do you get any clues from the kernel panic? Does it generate a panic log (that you can perhaps dig up by slaving the drive)?
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#3809 - 09/15/09 04:21 PM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: Virtual1]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
sudo "~/rsync_306_intel"

I'm surprised that even works.

Not that i doubt you have some rsync_306_intel executable sitting right in the top level of your home folder... but, because putting quotes around the tilde usually [always] fails...

$ ls -dn ~/Documents
drwx------+ 34 501 501 1156 Sep 14 16:28 /Users/halito/Documents

$ ls -dn "~/Documents"
ls: ~/Documents: No such file or directory

How can your command run with quotes around the tilde?

confused

-HI-

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#3814 - 09/15/09 05:22 PM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: Hal Itosis]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
I substituted the tilde for the actual path, please ignore that. It's actually buried in a subfolder.

I was able to use disk utility to create a dmg of the volume, and then restore that to the service drive, where it runs happily. Though I still have no practical way to update all the service drives, short of making a dmg and restoring it to all of them. I prefer rsync, it's faster. And the scripts I have established keep track of when things were updated etc. So I'd like to get rsync working properly.

There's an interesting bug in disk utility that was causing it to not accept the drag and drop of the destination volume to the "to" box in DU, although I wasn't able to fully determine the cause. Attaching another volume woke it up though.

I'm going to do some testing with the drive tonight here at home, making sure it's still OS 9 and PPC compatible. I've ran into two pesky issues that I need to test:

1) OS 9 can't attach volumes other than the boot volume (usually as a result of using DU to repartition/resize, or to format)

2) PPC machine boot selectors (hold 'alt') sometimes don't display all eligible volumes on the drive. (I suspect it only checks the first 8 volumes?)

3) volume names for some OS X volumes are not correctly named ("EFI BOOT"), nor are their icons. (I think they must be selected in Startup Disk to update /System/Library/CoreServices/.disk_label and .disk_label.contentDetails)

4) OS 9 can't boot if a disk is attached with more than 12 volumes

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one doing this sort of thing, there's NO help to be found anywhere for these problems. Some of these things took considerable time to figure out...

Also elusive issues like some intels not booting off some volumes fully (stalls at gear) unless PRAM is zapped first.

Interestingly enough, to solve several of the above requires me to use 10.3.4 CD to partition the drive, and to start with one volume, split it, name/size the first, move to second, split, rename and size, etc) until I have all 12.


Edited by Virtual1 (09/15/09 05:29 PM)
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#3820 - 09/15/09 07:29 PM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: Virtual1]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
I've ran into two pesky issues that I need to test:

1) OS 9 can't attach volumes other than the boot volume (usually as a result of using DU to repartition/resize, or to format)

2) PPC machine boot selectors (hold 'alt') sometimes don't display all eligible volumes on the drive. (I suspect it only checks the first 8 volumes?)

3) volume names for some OS X volumes are not correctly named ("EFI BOOT"), nor are their icons. (I think they must be selected in Startup Disk to update /System/Library/CoreServices/.disk_label and .disk_label.contentDetails)

4) OS 9 can't boot if a disk is attached with more than 12 volumes

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one doing this sort of thing,

laugh Wouldn't surprise me. [it's a lot of work trying to trick-out stuff the OS doesn't (officially) support.]

If ganbustein gets a gander at this thread, he may have some good answers for you.

--

I realize having just one multi-bootable <service drive> to maintain and lug around is (was?) a convenience of sorts. But -- at this point (APM versus GUID table, etc., etc.,) -- wouldn't it be easier to have two such drives? One for pre-Leopard and one for post-Leopard. Is fixing OS 9 machines still a priority (or necessity even) in your field now?


Edited by Hal Itosis (09/15/09 07:34 PM)

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#3824 - 09/15/09 09:53 PM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: Virtual1]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
I know isn't exactly the same, but how about using ASR to script a multi-restore?
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#3843 - 09/16/09 08:47 AM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: donikatz]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
The idea is to be able to sync, it's much faster than an ASR restore.

For example, once synced, a sync check on the 10.5.6 DVD takes about 20 seconds. MUCH faster than a restore. And I maintain 1/2 dozen copies of this drive. As for scripting, my restore is fully scripted. I attach both drives and double clicky and go eat lunch and it's done syncing all volumes when I get back. And I don't have to make images. BIG time saver.

No, having multiple drives is not as good of an option. I considered having a PPC and an intel drive at one point but less to carry in the bag and having 6 drives to manage rather than 12 is definitely worth a little research.

I wasn't able to boot off OS 9 when I tested the drive last night. I think it's time to retire the OS 9.2.1 CD and 9.2.2 installed system partitions, I'm running out of fight and don't feel like trying to figure out why it's not working this time. One of these days apple will pull boot-from-APS firmware support, but until then I'm going to keep a jack-of-all-trades drive.

What confuses me is why the 10.6.0 DVD can sync, but not a SL installation?
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#3844 - 09/16/09 09:32 AM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: Virtual1]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
Right, I understand the objective, I was just offering a workaround solution since I inferred from your last post that your biggest problem with imaging was having to deploy it one at a time. Until you can figure out why rsync isn't working, ASR is a doable workaround, no? How often do you update emergency repair boot drives? When I used to do desktop support, it certainly wasn't every day. So what's the difference if it takes 30 sec or an hour? Also, can't ASR go directly from volume source without an image in between? Haven't used it in a few years, so don't recall the downsides. Anyhow, yup, getting rsync to work is obviously the goal. Can't believe this hasn't come up anywhere else (except for your own post @ Apple). Wish I had the spare time and equipment to help you troubleshoot right now, but my only SL box is my hackintosh.
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#3849 - 09/16/09 10:24 AM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: donikatz]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
yep rsync in general is frustrating. It's OS X support has been a neverending hack, and even the versions they've shipped with OS X lately have been broken. 2.6.6/9 will sync unmodified resource forks every time. Have to have at least vers 3 to get ACLs and other leopard extras.

3.0.6 still has serious issues with sockets, which rsync has never really gotten right. As of 3.0.6, any socket encountered produces an IO error, causing file deletion to be cancelled. This makes creating a bootable backup a pain. I can understand their not caring much about resource forks... but sockets? really? Unix has had these for what, forever? 2.6.3 would error on sockets but not IO error, so it would at least carry through with deletion, I just had to sift them out of my output logs. 2.6.3 also failed to set ownership on all symbolic links, producing non fatal errors that I had to parse the output from and have my script fix after sync.... *grumbles*

I was assuming time machine used rsync, but clearly that's impossible since its still broken. Wish they'd make whatever it uses to do its copy avaialble.
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#3948 - 09/17/09 01:38 PM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: Virtual1]
ganbustein Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
I was assuming time machine used rsync, but clearly that's impossible since its still broken. Wish they'd make whatever it uses to do its copy avaialble.

Why would you assume it was 'using' anything? Not every program has to be using external unix command-line tools under the hood. At some point, you have to stop passing the buck to other utilities and start making direct calls on the filesystem. Considering the sort of thing backupd (aka Time Machine) does, I'd think it's already at that point.

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#3952 - 09/17/09 03:31 PM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: ganbustein]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
you're probably right.

would be nice if either apple would fix rsync themselves, or if the ppl managing the project would make it work properly.
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#4075 - 09/20/09 05:49 AM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: Virtual1]
MicroMatTech3 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Virtual1,

You should be aware of this developement, in case you use tar for any of your work:

10.6 tar has incompatible format
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#4084 - 09/20/09 09:29 AM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: MicroMatTech3]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
thx for the heads-up. I don't really use it but I wonder why they did that??
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#4132 - 09/21/09 09:39 AM Re: Rsync and Snow Leopard [Re: MicroMatTech3]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
Good lord. crazy (Thanks for the link)
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