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#40736 - 05/29/16 03:18 PM A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket!
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Just saw this via yahoo.com:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/disgruntled-texas-man-pays-speeding-182200269.html

Talk about being creative! And, he let them keep the change. What a guy!
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#40739 - 05/30/16 05:58 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: honestone]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
I think he needs to "get a life", and I agree with the poster who commented:

"I APPRECIATE this man's idea, but he was rather out of place.

Number one, it was a jury of his own peers that convicted him, not the government, so it wasn't entirely police extortion.

Number two, he didn't hurt the police one bit, rather he just made the clerks day worse. And she had zero control over the decision of the jury and zero control over his driving habits.

Yes 212 bucks is rather steep for 9 mph, so like I said I appreciate his willingness to expose a corrupt government, but you have to take it out on the right people and do it in the right way."


Edited by ryck (05/30/16 06:01 AM)
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#40740 - 05/30/16 09:46 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: ryck]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Don't know about other states, but here in Washington, when one gets a ticket, they have 3 choices on how to proceed:

1. Pay the fine outright (and thus plead guilty).

2. Attend a mitigation hearing to try and get the fine reduced (typically works, and usually the reduction is anywhere from 30 to 50%).

3. Contest the ticket. In this case, one goes to court and appears before a judge. One thus makes an argument as to why they think the violation is either invalid or unjust. This will lead to either a dismissal of the violation (and thus no fine), a reduction in the fine, or things remain as they are.

In some cases (and depending on the jurisdiction), one can contest the ticket by filling out some paperwork and mailing it to the court. There is no actual hearing involved. We did exactly that 2 years ago, when my wife received an invalid ticket for not yielding the right away in a round about (hate those things, as do quite a few other drivers I know). Based on quite a few easily proven circumstances, we filled out the paperwork, mailed it in, and the violation was dismissed.

Apparently, he "chose" the third option (maybe there is no "mitigation" choice in that Texas town/jurisdiction). Without knowing his driving record, nor how he tried to "argue" his case (and maybe other circumstances), it's difficult to understand why it was so much for just going 9 mph over the limit. But, assuming his driving record was OK, and that he tried to state his case as calmly and clearly as possible, I don't blame him at all for being pissed off.

Note though that they did accept the payment, counted it, and even left him a courteous voice message about a refund due.

Also, note the last part of this: "I was convicted by a jury for driving 39 in a 30 and was subject to $212 at the barrel of a gun". Would like to know about "the barrel of a gun". In almost all cases, and especially if one acts respectful to the officer, I have never heard of the need for a gun regarding a traffic violation.

By the way, here in Washington, when one contests a ticket, there is no jury involved at the hearing. There is the defendant, the judge, a couple of court clerks, and the officer who wrote the ticket. So if there was an actual jury involved, that definitely screams of a terrible waste of money in that Texas town/jurisdiction.


Edited by honestone (05/30/16 10:02 AM)
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#40741 - 05/30/16 10:54 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: honestone]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
The man had already pled not guilty, been tried before a jury of his peers and found guilty which takes option 1 and option 3 off the table.

In Texas, there is no provision for a mitigation hearing other than appealing the fine to a higher court and that is only available if there was judicial error. The legal fees for that would be far more than the fine and difficult to prove.

This is far from the first time someone has paid, or attempted to pay, a fine in coins. As a teenager there was "common wisdom" you could do that as a protest. However the Texas legislature passed a law that says the courts do not have to accept coins in payment of a fine. I suspect the clerk
  1. was unaware of the law that allows them to refuse payment in coin (it does not come up that often) or
  2. chose to accept the payment rather than starting something with a scofflaw who was obviously spoiling for a fight.
On the other hand the judge does have the option of refusing the payment and issuing an arrest warrant for contempt of c court and/or non-payment The Collin County jail is not a place I would like to spend the night, much less 30 days.
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#40742 - 05/30/16 12:27 PM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: joemikeb]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Texas is definitely more unfriendly than Washington is, that's for sure! But still, $212 for going only 9 mph over the limit is definitely excessive.

So, in Texas, when an officer writes up a citation what options does the driver have? I would be surprised (and hopefully Texas is progressive enough) if there was not at least the option of appearing before the court, and contesting the ticket. Based on the description, it states that he was "tried before a jury of his peers and found guilty", and thus one might assume that he did actually contest it, and went before the judge (and the jury, although that seems to be a HUGE waste of taxpayers' funds).

And, as for paying by cash/coins, note that the law passed by the Texas legislature says "However the Texas legislature passed a law that says the courts do not have to accept coins in payment of a fine" (bold emphasis added by me). Thus, the clerk does have the option to accept coins fro payment, and thus did nothing wrong. Again, given that 4 hours later, after counting the money, an individual from that office called the individual and left him a pleasant message about over payment, everything seemed OK.

To me, I'm glad he did it! If the judicial system in Texas is that dictatorial, more power to the folks. As I mentioned above, circumstances are WAY MORE reasonable in Washington with such relatively "minor" matters (again, we don't know the circumstances regarding his driving record, but all indications are that is not an issue). The example I gave above about the "bogus" citation my wife received more than 2 years ago is a perfect example of that. I'm sure glad we are not in Texas, or else the "bogus" ticket would have remained!


Edited by honestone (05/30/16 12:43 PM)
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#40743 - 05/30/16 01:08 PM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: honestone]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Half a century ago the standard speeding fine in Texas was $10 / mph over the limit up to but not including 10, then $20 per mph over the limit if you were 10 or more over the limit up to 20, after that they got really serious. For that reason 9 mph speeding fines are common. It is the arresting officer's way of giving the speeder a break. Note too the fine also includes court costs and for a jury trial $200 is not unusual. Even the fine is uncontested court costs can run $50 to $100.

I neglected to mention that if you have a clean record for the last three years and you not over 10 mph over the limit you can elect to take a safe driving course and if your record remains clean for three years after that the record is expunged. You will still pay for the safe driving course and court costs.
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#40744 - 05/30/16 01:36 PM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: joemikeb]
honestone Offline
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Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Again, a jury trial for a traffic violation (and definitely minor in this case) is a HUGE waste of taxpayers' money (and the court system should wisely spend their time and efforts on WAY more serious crimes).

Also, $212 at 9 mph over the limit comes to $23.55 per mph over the limit. Again, way, way too excessive!

And, that business about a clean record, 3 years, etc. exists in Washington also. But here again, we are WAY more progressive than Texas. It only takes 1 year for it to be removed, not 3.
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#40752 - 05/30/16 06:08 PM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: honestone]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: honestone
Texas is definitely more unfriendly than Washington is, that's for sure! But still, $212 for going only 9 mph over the limit is definitely excessive.

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
…... 9 mph speeding fines are common. It is the arresting officer's way of giving the speeder a break.

So, in reality the Texas driver caught a break (for all we know, he may have been 29 mph over the limit) but, instead of appreciating it, decided to be a jerk. He needs to “get a life”.
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#40754 - 05/30/16 09:15 PM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: ryck]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: honestone
Texas is definitely more unfriendly than Washington is, that's for sure! But still, $212 for going only 9 mph over the limit is definitely excessive.

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
…... 9 mph speeding fines are common. It is the arresting officer's way of giving the speeder a break.

So, in reality the Texas driver caught a break (for all we know, he may have been 29 mph over the limit) but, instead of appreciating it, decided to be a jerk. He needs to “get a life”.


Nothing was stated at all how much he was actually exceeding the speed limit by. If it was truly only 9 mph over the limit, and he attempted to get the ticket removed and/or the fine reduced via a court trial (with a waste of money jury present), and he was completely turned down, then I am glad he did it. No matter how it looks, he certainly proved a valid point: Texas is a police state, with a ridiculous fine structure, and lack of any reasonable alternatives. And, to top it all off, they waste valuable resources (money, people's time, etc.) to have a jury trial for traffic violations. Definitely a stupid use of resources, I'll say!


Edited by honestone (05/30/16 09:19 PM)
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#40755 - 05/31/16 04:40 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: honestone]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: honestone
No matter how it looks, he certainly proved a valid point: Texas is a police state....

I don't think he proved anything, except that he's an inconsiderate jerk. As many posters in that link pointed out, the 30 MPH speed limit suggests he was in a residential area....where children play and could dart out into the street.

After getting caught for exceeding the speed limit by nearly a third, and having his peers confirm that his choice to speed was wrong, he decided to act childishly and take his frustration out on a civic employee.

Perhaps I was wrong to say that he didn't prove anything. He did. His actions and the posters' responses confirm that you can publish any nonsensical position on-line and get lots of people to buy in, while others see through it.


Edited by ryck (05/31/16 04:42 AM)
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#40756 - 05/31/16 04:48 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
Perhaps I was wrong to say that he didn't prove anything. He did. His actions and the posters' responses confirm that you can publish any nonsensical position on-line and get lots of people to buy in, while others see through it.

👍
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#40758 - 05/31/16 07:29 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: honestone]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: honestone
Nothing was stated at all how much he was actually exceeding the speed limit by.

Had you read the article carefully you should have seen the quote
Quote:
'm not a big fan of extortion," Sanders explains in the video he posted to YouTube. "I was convicted by a jury for driving 39 in a 30 and was subject to $212 at the barrel of a gun."

By my math that would seem to indicate he was fined for driving 9 mph over the speed limit.
Originally Posted By: honestone
it was truly only 9 mph over the limit, and he attempted to get the ticket removed and/or the fine reduced via a court trial (with a waste of money jury present), and he was completely turned down, then I am glad he did it. No matter how it looks, he certainly proved a valid point: Texas is a police state, with a ridiculous fine structure, and lack of any reasonable alternatives. And, to top it all off, they waste valuable resources (money, people's time, etc.) to have a jury trial for traffic violations. Definitely a stupid use of resources, I'll say!
Normally there would not be a jury trial for a misdemeanor traffic offense, however under the 5th, 6th, & 7th amendments to the Constitution of the United States anyone accused of a crime has an absolute right to trial by jury no matter what the offense and I have to assume that was the case here. From your remarks it sounds as if you are implying Washington State does not adhere to the Constitution of the United States of America and I find that very difficult to believe. Personally I believe that our Constitutional rights are important enough to override any cost considerations.
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#40759 - 05/31/16 08:27 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: ryck]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: ryck

I don't think he proved anything, except that he's an inconsiderate jerk. As many posters in that link pointed out, the 30 MPH speed limit suggests he was in a residential area....where children play and could dart out into the street.


No, the one person stated that decreasing the amount over the limit is, at times, done in Texas. Also, a 30 mph limit can be in other locations.

Originally Posted By: ryck
After getting caught for exceeding the speed limit by nearly a third, and having his peers confirm that his choice to speed was wrong, he decided to act childishly and take his frustration out on a civic employee.


No, after explaining the circumstances before a jury (again a HUGE waste of resources), he still could not get the fine reduced, nor possibly the citation dismissed. He then expressed his valid frustration, but not directed at a civic employee. I did not see him harass the woman at all And he was definitely calm when he dumped the coins onto the counter.

Originally Posted By: ryck
Perhaps I was wrong to say that he didn't prove anything. He did. His actions and the posters' responses confirm that you can publish any nonsensical position on-line and get lots of people to buy in, while others see through it.


No, he did a great service in exposing the police state in Texas, and that is what lots of people see it as.
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#40760 - 05/31/16 08:41 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: joemikeb]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: honestone
Nothing was stated at all how much he was actually exceeding the speed limit by.

Had you read the article carefully you should have seen the quote
Quote:
'm not a big fan of extortion," Sanders explains in the video he posted to YouTube. "I was convicted by a jury for driving 39 in a 30 and was subject to $212 at the barrel of a gun."

By my math that would seem to indicate he was fined for driving 9 mph over the speed limit.


You did not follow what I stated above, in post #40754. I was responding to what ryck had stated:

Originally Posted By: ryck
(for all we know, he may have been 29 mph over the limit)


Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: honestone
it was truly only 9 mph over the limit, and he attempted to get the ticket removed and/or the fine reduced via a court trial (with a waste of money jury present), and he was completely turned down, then I am glad he did it. No matter how it looks, he certainly proved a valid point: Texas is a police state, with a ridiculous fine structure, and lack of any reasonable alternatives. And, to top it all off, they waste valuable resources (money, people's time, etc.) to have a jury trial for traffic violations. Definitely a stupid use of resources, I'll say!
Normally there would not be a jury trial for a misdemeanor traffic offense, however under the 5th, 6th, & 7th amendments to the Constitution of the United States anyone accused of a crime has an absolute right to trial by jury no matter what the offense and I have to assume that was the case here. From your remarks it sounds as if you are implying Washington State does not adhere to the Constitution of the United States of America and I find that very difficult to believe. Personally I believe that our Constitutional rights are important enough to override any cost considerations.


I never said that. What I clearly stared was that in Washington, the individual has 3 choices (at the outset) as to how to proceed. I suspect that if one wishes to push it further, a jury trial could happen. But, for most sensible folks (at least here in Washington), the initial 3 choices are enough. And just like you stated above, and I responded, depending on one's driving record, there is a way to just pay a flat fee upfront, and if you do not receive any violations within a year, the infraction is dismissed.

And, you never answered my question above, regarding the choices one has in Texas after receiving a traffic violation (not including the "3 year" dismissal choice you already mentioned).

Finally, what about the "at the barrel of a gun" statement? Is it that bad in Texas (again, evidence of a police state)?


Edited by honestone (05/31/16 09:11 AM)
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#40761 - 05/31/16 09:12 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: artie505]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: artie505
Quote:
Perhaps I was wrong to say that he didn't prove anything. He did. His actions and the posters' responses confirm that you can publish any nonsensical position on-line and get lots of people to buy in, while others see through it.

👍


Meanwhile, most other folks would not have tunnel vision, and see through this correctly.

👍 👍 👍
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#40765 - 05/31/16 10:39 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: honestone]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: honestone
Finally, what about the "at the barrel of a gun" statement? Is it that bad in Texas (again, evidence of a police state)?

What about it? Given this person's peculiar behaviour, and the fact that he didn't provide any evidence other than a passing comment, the rational conclusion is that there was no gun involved in the event.


Edited by ryck (05/31/16 10:40 AM)
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#40769 - 05/31/16 03:33 PM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: honestone]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: honestone
Finally, what about the "at the barrel of a gun" statement? Is it that bad in Texas (again, evidence of a police state)?

A common colloquialism used throughout the south since before the revolutionary war. Similar in connotation to shotgun wedding although generally used in a different context. In the context it was used here anyone in Texas would NOT take it literally. Rather he was angry after demanding a jury trial that his peers found him guilty and he was assessed a penalty by the judge. The gun to his head being the fact he had to pay the fine or he could be penalized with additional fines, and possibly even held in contempt of court and incarcerated.
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#40770 - 05/31/16 07:48 PM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: ryck]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: honestone
Finally, what about the "at the barrel of a gun" statement? Is it that bad in Texas (again, evidence of a police state)?

What about it? Given this person's peculiar behaviour, and the fact that he didn't provide any evidence other than a passing comment, the rational conclusion is that there was no gun involved in the event.


He behaved just fine. I suspect, though, that the "barrel of a gun" comment was made in jest by him. However, given the ridiculous amount for going only 9 mph over the limit, I can understand how he felt.
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#40771 - 05/31/16 08:00 PM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: joemikeb]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: honestone
Finally, what about the "at the barrel of a gun" statement? Is it that bad in Texas (again, evidence of a police state)?

A common colloquialism used throughout the south since before the revolutionary war. Similar in connotation to shotgun wedding although generally used in a different context. In the context it was used here anyone in Texas would NOT take it literally. Rather he was angry after demanding a jury trial that his peers found him guilty and he was assessed a penalty by the judge. The gun to his head being the fact he had to pay the fine or he could be penalized with additional fines, and possibly even held in contempt of court and incarcerated.


I suspected he just said it ion jest. But, given the ridiculous amount he had to pay for just going 9 mph over the limit, I can certainly understand him feeling that way.

And, given that you STILL have not answered the question as to what options one has after receiving a citation, I looked it up via a google search, and here it is:

"What do I do if get a traffic ticket in Texas?

After getting a traffic ticket, you must decide how you will plead. You have three options: guilty, no contest or not guilty. The first two options require you to pay the ticket on or before your scheduled court appearance. If you decide to plead not guilty, learn more on how to fight your traffic ticket. No matter how you decide to plead, just be sure you do so by the date listed on your citation. Ignoring the traffic ticket could lead to a warrant for your arrest."

So, just as I thought, things are rather confining in Texas. One cannot choose to mediate a violation like in Washington, and thus have an excellent chance of getting the fine reduced. I suspect he took the third choice, as if he selected either one of the first two, he would have been required to pay the ridiculous $212 fine either before he went to court, or when he went. I suspect for the third choice, he was given some time to pay the fine.

This also shows, as I stated previously, that Texas wastes tax payers' money, by having a jury trial! In Washington, it is much simpler, cleaner, and there is no jury present when one contests it, or in some cases (like we did for my wife's bogus ticket), one can contest it via the mail. That is definitely a wise use of taxpayers' money.


Edited by honestone (05/31/16 08:02 PM)
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#40778 - 06/01/16 02:27 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: honestone]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: honestone
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: ryck
Perhaps I was wrong to say that he didn't prove anything. He did. His actions and the posters' responses confirm that you can publish any nonsensical position on-line and get lots of people to buy in, while others see through it.

👍

Meanwhile, most other folks would not have tunnel vision, and see through this correctly.

👍 👍 👍

Gimme a break. laugh

The guy was a complete jerk from jump street!

His wasn't a clever way to pay for a ticket; it wasn't even a clever way to protest a perceived unfair fine (as the title of this thread should have stated).

He GAMBLED and LOST, reacted like a cry-baby when it came time to pay the piper, and took out his anger over his own chosen fate on an undeserving third party, and grotesquely, to boot.

Excessive fine? Thats just your own very narrow assessment of the way in which Texas protects Texans. "We don't want you speeding, so we've fixed things so it'll be painful for you if you do" is a fair attitude...one that in no way implies a police state...one that the majority of Texans who elected the people who passed the laws in question apparently support...one that Washington apparently doesn't buy into. "Excessive" isn't quantifiable; it's relative to the desired end (and, of course, the tunnel vision of the observer).

ryck's position is spot-on, and I suspect that your idea of the "most folks [who'd] see through this correctly"(*) probably comes from a combination of your having looked into one of those facing mirror arrangements in which you see yourself from here to eternity and your never having looked up "correctly" in a dictionary, NOT from your having assessed the reactions of the folks who've posted in this thread. wink

And your persistent complaining about jury trials wasting taxpayer dollars demonstrates a VERY FRIGHTENING and, VERY UNFORTUNATELY, GROWING lack of appreciation by Americans for the wisdom inherent our Constitution and the benefits it has bestowed upon us and our forbears who fought for them. The right to a trial by jury under ANY circumstances is NEVER to be sneezed at.

Oh, sure, in any population there'll be some people who'll buy into and applaud any display of stupidity no matter how gross it is, but luckily for America, those people don't rule the roost, and hopefully they never will.

(*) You often state opinions as if you're actually speaking for "other folks", and perhaps you are, but if you are I'd like to know who they are and by what authority and in what capacity you're speaking for them.

Oh, and "liking" your own posts isn't cricket, although it is in keeping with your high opinion of your own opinions; thumbs ups from others are the only ones that count.
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#40779 - 06/01/16 03:25 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: artie505
The right to a trial by jury under ANY circumstances is NEVER to be sneezed at.
Exactly right, Artie. I recently was called for jury duty and, although I was not chosen, I would have been proud to serve. The jury system is far from perfect (which human endeavor is?) but it's the best that we have. The Founding Fathers knew that government cannot be trusted to do the right thing, and history in this country and others have vindicated this view so many times that a listing would be unbelievably long. The jury system obviates, as much as possible, having the prosecution be the sole arbiter of guilt.

Mistakes are made, yes, but that's preferable to the venal behavior that government continually demonstrates.
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#40780 - 06/01/16 07:37 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
It always saddens (but amuses) me that for so many years the rights to vote and to a trial by jury were almost self-cancelling freedoms (in NY, at the least).

I imagine that you remember the days when jury pools were drawn exclusively from voter rolls and many people never registered to vote in order to avoid jury duty...when jury duty was two weeks every two years in Brooklyn? Well, since they changed the system and have drawn jurors from the rolls of every state agency that's got names it's down to a day or two every eight years.

That's frightening in its implications!
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#40781 - 06/01/16 07:43 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: honestone]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: honestone
This also shows, as I stated previously, that Texas wastes tax payers' money, by having a jury trial! In Washington, it is much simpler, cleaner, and there is no jury present when one contests it, or in some cases (like we did for my wife's bogus ticket), one can contest it via the mail. That is definitely a wise use of taxpayers' money.

Jury trial for a traffic misdemeanor in Texas is an OPTION chosen by the defendant. The prosecutor and the court would prefer NOT to have a jury trial as it takes too much time for too many people and costs too much money, but it is the defendants constitutional right.

The "ridiculous fine" you are so exercised by includes court costs. While I do not have the particulars of that case available to me but I would not be at all surprised the actual fine was $12 and the remaining $200 was in court costs. From personal experience, pleading nolo contendere (no contest) and taking the safe driving course runs in the neighborhood of $250 in tuition and court costs for a similar 9 mph over the limit. The difference is this option can be expunged from your driving record and will not effect your auto insurance rates. I can also say that 60 years of driving experience in Texas would lead me to strongly believe the actual violation was significantly more than 9 mph but the arresting officer chose to give the driver a break and wrote the ticket for the lower speed to keep the violation at a lower level.

Reading between the lines, this rather immature individual was mad because he had been caught speeding, plead not guilty and requested a jury trial because he thought a jury would be more sympathetic than a judge. He was wrong about the jury's sympathies which made him even angrier and like an acting out teenager he chose to pay his fine in this manner. I suspect he was even angrier that his tantrum did not even rate a mention in the local news.
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#40782 - 06/01/16 09:02 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: artie505]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: honestone
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: ryck
Perhaps I was wrong to say that he didn't prove anything. He did. His actions and the posters' responses confirm that you can publish any nonsensical position on-line and get lots of people to buy in, while others see through it.

👍

Meanwhile, most other folks would not have tunnel vision, and see through this correctly.

👍 👍 👍

Gimme a break. laugh


I am! I'm reading your convoluted statements. tongue

Originally Posted By: artie505
The guy was a complete jerk from jump street!


No, it was a clever way to make a statement to the police state in Texas.

Originally Posted By: artie505
His wasn't a clever way to pay for a ticket; it wasn't even a clever way to protest a perceived unfair fine (as the title of this thread should have stated).


Nope, it was a clever, excellent way to pay the ridiculous fine.

Originally Posted By: artie505
He GAMBLED and LOST, reacted like a cry-baby when it came time to pay the piper, and took out his anger over his own chosen fate on an undeserving third party, and grotesquely, to boot.


Man, talked about confusing thinking, to say the LEAST! Again, nothing grotesque about paying the fine in cash. He EVEN politely asked the clerk if paying by cash was allowed, and she said yes.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Excessive fine? Thats just your own very narrow assessment of the way in which Texas protects Texans. "We don't want you speeding, so we've fixed things so it'll be painful for you if you do" is a fair attitude...one that in no way implies a police state...one that the majority of Texans who elected the people who passed the laws in question apparently support...one that Washington apparently doesn't buy into. "Excessive" isn't quantifiable; it's relative to the desired end (and, of course, the tunnel vision of the observer).


If you think $212 for going only 9 mph over the limit is acceptable, good for you. Myself (and I suspect most sane individuals (do you know what that word means? I doubt it) can think of WAY MORE WISE WAYS to spend my money. But, if you want to spend it that way, fine.

Originally Posted By: artie505
ryck's position is spot-on, and I suspect that your idea of the "most folks [who'd] see through this correctly"(*) probably comes from a combination of your having looked into one of those facing mirror arrangements in which you see yourself from here to eternity and your never having looked up "correctly" in a dictionary, NOT from your having assessed the reactions of the folks who've posted in this thread. wink


Originally Posted By: artie505
And your persistent complaining about jury trials wasting taxpayer dollars demonstrates a VERY FRIGHTENING and, VERY UNFORTUNATELY, GROWING lack of appreciation by Americans for the wisdom inherent our Constitution and the benefits it has bestowed upon us and our forbears who fought for them. The right to a trial by jury under ANY circumstances is NEVER to be sneezed at.

Oh, sure, in any population there'll be some people who'll buy into and applaud any display of stupidity no matter how gross it is, but luckily for America, those people don't rule the roost, and hopefully they never will.


So, by your convoluted logic, the instance I mentioned regarding the bogus infraction my wife got would have been better resolved by having a hearing that included a jury? Man, what prehistoric thinking!

Originally Posted By: artie505
(*) You often state opinions as if you're actually speaking for "other folks", and perhaps you are, but if you are I'd like to know who they are and by what authority and in what capacity you're speaking for them.


I'm sure there are MANY, MANY folks out there that would share either the same or similar opinions. But, for folks that have tunnel vision, it's understandable why they can't fathom such logic.
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#40783 - 06/01/16 09:08 AM Re: A Very Clever Way To Pay For a Ticket! [Re: jchuzi]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Originally Posted By: artie505
The right to a trial by jury under ANY circumstances is NEVER to be sneezed at.
Exactly right, Artie. I recently was called for jury duty and, although I was not chosen, I would have been proud to serve. The jury system is far from perfect (which human endeavor is?) but it's the best that we have. The Founding Fathers knew that government cannot be trusted to do the right thing, and history in this country and others have vindicated this view so many times that a listing would be unbelievably long. The jury system obviates, as much as possible, having the prosecution be the sole arbiter of guilt.

Mistakes are made, yes, but that's preferable to the venal behavior that government continually demonstrates.


Man, folks have difficulty reading! I NEVER, NEVER said that one does not have a right to a trial by a jury. From a logical perspective (folks around here seem to have a difficult time grasping that word), though, having a jury AUTOMATICALLY present for hearing arguments about traffic violations is a HUGE, HUGE waste of time, effort, and money. The Texas court system would be wise to concentrate such processes on WAY MORE serious crimes.

Again, I am NOT SAYING that the individual cannot have a trial with a jury. He or she should always have that option.


Edited by honestone (06/01/16 09:09 AM)
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