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#40539 - 05/18/16 03:09 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Let's start over:

Setup Assistant launches the first time that you start a new Mac or when you have erased a drive and installed a brand new OS with no accounts or other settings. When you migrate from another computer or external drive into that new system, SA effectively clones everything so that the new system looks exactly like the one being imported.

If you have an existing system that already has accounts in it, Migration Assistant (which you can launch manually) imports all the accounts in the old system or external drive, but keeps the original account(s). This leads to having several accounts in the new system, which can cause problems if the original account and a new account have the same name. That's why it's easier to use SA (when possible) than MA.

I hope that this is clear.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#40540 - 05/18/16 03:25 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
If you have an existing system that already has accounts in it, Migration Assistant (which you can launch manually) imports all the accounts in the old system or external drive, but keeps the original account(s). This leads to having several accounts in the new system, which can cause problems if the original account and a new account have the same name. That's why it's easier to use SA (when possible) than MA.

Gotta contradict that, Jon.
  • I justSet up my new MBP with Setup Assistant.
  • I named my new account with the exact same name that I used on my old MBP.
  • I ran Migration Assistant.
  • MA told me that it was migrating an account with the same name as an existing account...what did I want to do.
  • I hit "Replace".
  • Everything was copacetic.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#40541 - 05/18/16 06:31 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Thanks, Artie. I have never done it that way so I didn't know. Good info! smile
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#40542 - 05/18/16 08:39 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: jchuzi]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Artie to confirm,
I'm going to remember what you recommend: don't clone back. Always erase and get a new OS.

But then after you do that you are then forced to use setup assistant? Pity you can't just go straight to migration assistant, there should be a check box, "use the same user name as before....?

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#40543 - 05/18/16 09:03 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: kevs
Artie to confirm,
I'm going to remember what you recommend: don't clone back. Always erase and get a new OS.

But then after you do that you are then forced to use setup assistant? Pity you can't just go straight to migration assistant, there should be a check box, "use the same user name as before....?
Setup Assistant will do exactly what you want. It's basically the same as Migration Assistant except that it opens in a system that is not set up. After SA is finished, your system will be exactly the same as the one that you imported. I know; I've done it myself when migrating from one computer to a new one.

On the other hand, did you want two accounts that have the same name? Just clarifying.


Edited by jchuzi (05/18/16 09:05 AM)
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#40544 - 05/18/16 09:45 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: jchuzi]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
No I always want one name, but in set up you then just put you old name and password, and then do migration assistant. And you can do this with one computer and your clone..?

I'm selling a computer, but am very rusty with a crisis situation, so good to know again..

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#40545 - 05/18/16 09:59 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: kevs
Artie to confirm,
I'm going to remember what you recommend: don't clone back. Always erase and get a new OS.

But then after you do that you are then forced to use setup assistant? Pity you can't just go straight to migration assistant, there should be a check box, "use the same user name as before....?


The discussions about all this have been:

1. One wants to sell their machine.

2. One wants to restore their Mac from an SD clone.

3. One wants to first install a pristine version of the most recent OS that they had been using before, and then to get their information from a backup/clone.

For #1, assuming that the seller will not be supplying any additional software (besides what is contained within the Mac OS (Mail, Safari, etc.)), one would restart their Mac from their SD or CCC clone, run Disk Utility form there to Erase and Format the internal HD/SSD on the machine they are selling, then launch the file "Install OS X El Capitan" contained within the clone (you did remember to have that file), and install that OS onto the empty/formatted internal HD/SSD . When that completes, do nothing else. (One can do this "similarly" by launching the Mac they want to sell in "Target Disk Mode", but that is a little more involved).

For #2, after restarting one's Mac from the SD clone, run SuperDuper!, select "Restore all files", then select "Erase files, then copy files from "the source volume"", and then SD will do the restore. Once that completes, you'll wind up with what your Mac "looked" like (in terms of software, settings, etc.) at the point when you did the SD backup/clone. (artie505 did an excellent job above explaining the process via CCC).

For #3, one would restart their Mac from their SD or CCC clone, run Disk Utility form there to Erase and Format the internal HD/SSD on the machine they are selling, then launch the file "Install OS X El Capitan" contained within the clone (you did remember to have that file), and install that OS onto the empty/formatted internal HD/SSD . Now, here is where it gets a little confusing about the terminology. At this point (ie, while still booted into the clone), Migration Assistant will be presented (skip the "in between" stuff), and then select "From a Mac, Time Machine Backup, or start up disk". You'll then be presented with a screen for you to choose where you want your stuff "migrated"/copied from. One would logically select the device containing the applicable backup (I of course select the one containing the SD backup/clone). Once that process completes, you can re-boot your Mac, and all your account settings, preferences, etc. will be as they were before either 1) your most recent Time Machine backup, or 2) the most recent SD/CCC backup/clone you ran. This is exactly what I did the other day for my MacBook Air machine, via the SD backup/clone I made on Friday.

The differences between #2 and #3 are:

1. For #3, you first erased and formatted the internal HD/SSD on your machine. For #2 (via SD), you just erased it.

2. For #3, you will first have a fresh, pristine, "virgin" version on the OS, and then it will be "augmented" by the settings, etc. obtained via the restore from the Time Machine backup, or SD/CCC backup/clone.

For #3, after installing the OS, if one reboots their Mac, one will be then presented with Setup Assistant, so that one can setup their Mac (account name, password, etc.). Now if one wants to get their "stuff" from whatever backup they have via Migration Assistant, in order to not have issues with a different account (or even if one setup their Mac above with the same account name, etc., then follow what artie505 did above.


Edited by honestone (05/18/16 10:10 AM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#40547 - 05/18/16 10:10 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: honestone]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
H,
I just did #3 yesterday, for selling, I did the erase, and I can't remember now how I got the OS on it. I think they asked me to be on internet.. can't remember now! I think they may just offer the OS online.. then set up assistant starts, and I quit to leave it in that state for the buyer.

Now for me in crisis: I do have that file on Clone, but I think that sounds kind of hairy using SD restore, if you are not familiar with doing that in crisis. I think finish set up assistant, put same user name as suggested, and then use migration tool, migrate from SD or TM is easier and more intuitive at that crises point...

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#40548 - 05/18/16 11:35 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: kevs
H,
I just did #3 yesterday, for selling, I did the erase, and I can't remember now how I got the OS on it. I think they asked me to be on internet.. can't remember now! I think they may just offer the OS online.. then set up assistant starts, and I quit to leave it in that state for the buyer.


You are good to go.

Originally Posted By: kevs
Now for me in crisis: I do have that file on Clone, but I think that sounds kind of hairy using SD restore, if you are not familiar with doing that in crisis. I think finish set up assistant, put same user name as suggested, and then use migration tool, migrate from SD or TM is easier and more intuitive at that crises point...


Once again, you need to look at my two posts above:

1. $40498 - That is a blow-by-blow description of what I did the other day, and that addresses, in one respect, the "fear" you are expressing above.

2. #40545 - The one right above yours. That also addresses the "fear" you express.

I'll say it again: the quickest, easiest, and fastest way to get things going again is to do a restore from a SD/CCC backup/clone. That will not install a "fresh", pristine version of the most current Mac OS you have on your machine. But, it is seem less, easy to follow, and is proven to work (trust me, I have recovered that way a number of times, as have others, with either SD or CCC).

The primary reason I did it differently the other day (but again, doing EVERYTHING from the SD backup/clone), is because something got "hosed" on my MacBook Air when I was doing some testing last week directly related to this discussion, and I just decided to Erase and Format the Air's SSD, and install a pristine, fresh, and "virgin" OS 10.11.4, then used Migration Assistant on the clone to get all my "stuff" from the SD backup/clone.

When OS 10.12 comes out in the fall, after insuring that my 5 critical apps will work with the new OS, I will go with #3 that I described in my post #40545, but FROM the SD backup/clone. That is, I will of course first insure to have downloaded the file "Install OS X "whatever the name is for OS 10.12"", and again, do everything from the clone. I did EXACTLY that when I "moved"/upgraded for OS 10.10.5, the last one for Yosemite, to OS 10.11.1, the first "updated" version of OS 10.11, El Capitan (I previously explained why I first went to OS 10.11.1, instead of OS 10.11).

So, is that clear now?


Edited by honestone (05/18/16 11:37 AM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#40555 - 05/18/16 03:00 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Jon
On the other hand, did you want two accounts that have the same name?

We discussed above that there's no need for two accounts with the same name to exist.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#40587 - 05/19/16 08:06 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Boy after deciding to stay with Super Duper, and getting all that info here on how to get a recovery drive if need be in a crisis etc, a new twist just emerged today.

For the first time, I right clicked on my new external drive to take off site and encrypt, and the data partition encrypted fine, but the Mac OS partition said it would not encrypt because it does not have a recovery drive on it!

Message comes up:
"" A Recovery system for the targeted disk is required" and then wont encrypt.

Never seen this before is this new?

Also, Mac OS clone partition has a folder of data I'd like to encrypt, I don't care really about encrypting the system, but I don't think one can encrypt folders easily.

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#40592 - 05/20/16 03:39 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
You can encrypt a single folder. Read How to create a password-protected (encrypted) disk image
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#40593 - 05/20/16 07:45 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: jchuzi]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Jon, that will be too much work to do every month, and I can't have that folder in a disc image on a regular basis. I just like the right click encrypt the drive, boom done. I heard there might be 3rd party app for that?

Darn, the SD not making a recovery drive has a new hitch!


For the first time, buying the new 27" I'm putting Data on the Mac HD, So in the past, I never did that. I always left the Mac HD pure so never saw this before. I can't make a spare drive for the data as I use it too much on a daily basis and cannot be encumbered.

Maybe there is a 3rd party app that can encrypt the drive quickly with the fast right click? Maybe that is the best solution, or consider bailing on SD for CCC. Though I like SD for a long time. It's off site, and the odds on anyone getting to it is rare.

Also have this idea: Maybe before taking it off site, and then again when bringing back, just move the data from the OS drive to the data drive. pita.

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#40594 - 05/20/16 09:01 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Man, this thread just goes on and on and on and .... tongue

Over past while it seems to have wholly strayed from the Subject, namely "Antivirus and copy conflict".

One might be tempted to refer to "flogging a dead horse", but the "dead horse" seems to be repeatedly resurrected ~ reincarnated as a different horse.

Bottom line: Should this thread be given a decent burial so that each newish issue can receive its own "blessing"?

Moderators: Please chime in.

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#40598 - 05/20/16 09:19 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: grelber]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Greiber, good point, go ahead and close this out if you want. I just talked to SD directly about this, and we are good to go.. or I'll make a new thread on this tangent issue.

But really, anyone who comes on a thread to complain about a thread, has gotta be either retired or have a lot of time on their hands!

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#40603 - 05/20/16 03:45 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
With all due respect, kevs, your threads very often take multiple turns away from their original issues, because you continuously inject new issues that should really have their own threads into them, and it makes them reeeally difficult to follow and respond to.

And my being retired has nothing to do with this; your threads have been annoyingly difficult to follow and respond to for as long as you've been posting.

grelber's point is very well taken in this corner!

Edit:
Quote:
But really, anyone who comes on a thread to complain about a thread, has gotta be either retired or have a lot of time on their hands!

Or have an excellent reason! wink


Edited by artie505 (05/20/16 10:21 PM)
Edit Reason: Cleanup
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#40604 - 05/20/16 04:26 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Before this goes any further I am reminding everyone that casting personal aspersions is a violation of the FineTunedMac board rules and will NOT be tolerated. Enough said — okay?

I have asked the moderators of this forum to close this thread and/or break it up into multiple threads on the divergent topics. Closing the thread is easy but trying to break this puppy into separate included threads would be a LOT of work and very difficult as some posts would belong in multiple threads. In the meantime why does't everyone just drop it?


Edited by joemikeb (05/20/16 04:34 PM)
Edit Reason: comment about break up
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joemikeb • moderator

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#40605 - 05/20/16 07:27 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Artie, I was not referencing you at all in that statement.and I appreciate your help. It blows my mind when people, and you see this a lot on some forums, not here so much, when people complain about threads and and questions, and the OP etc.

I would never enter my brain ever to complain about anyone ever, if you don't like the thread, don't read the thread. It's amazing. I did not know you were retired, that is fine, I was not thinking of you at all when I wrote that.

Threads all the time move around and transmute, and get hijacked, and I would never care of get annoyed, but this has been actually a great thread with a lot of great info because of you and Joe and H, Tacit etc etc, and to see someone come on board and complain blows me away as I would never do that, but I guess everyone is different!

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#40606 - 05/20/16 11:14 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I think you're looking at this from the wrong point of view, kevs.

This has been a fascinating thread with an awful lot of good and useful information in it (as any number of your threads have been), but when you post a question there's a whole bunch of people who look at it and maybe give it some thought before they respond or maybe don't even see it for a few days, and by then your thread has often taken several turns in direction, which makes following lines of thought and responding to them awfully difficult, even for those who've followed them from the get-go.

It's not a matter of ignoring threads you "don't like"; it's more a matter of not participating (or not fully participating*) in threads you "do like" because they've gotten too difficult to follow because of hijacking, and that affects the quality of the responses you get to your questions, because, for instance, responders to one may not even be aware of others to which they'd also respond.

I don't get a whole lot of exposure to other forums, but in my experience FTM is unique in the quality of its responders and responses; it's an educational rather than just a Q & A experience, and keeping threads one issue per thread makes for the best experience for all.

(I didn't take your post personally, kevs, but yeah, I plead guilty to being retired with too much time on my hands; retirement ain't all it's cracked up to be. frown )

* Truth be told, I stopped participating in this thread days ago, because it got too convoluted - to the point where you've even hijacked your own posts with multiple questions - for me to deal with.


Edited by artie505 (05/21/16 01:10 AM)
Edit Reason: better
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#40607 - 05/21/16 01:49 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
At the risk of offending anyone's sensibilities by appearing contentious, my post (#40594) was per se demonstrably not an ad hominem argument — my explicit observation (complaint, if you will) was that the thread had meandered so far afield as to not have any relevance to its original subject matter.

From what I can gather, there is consensus at least on joemikeb's request to the moderators of the forum to close the thread. So let it be written. So let it be done.

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#40608 - 05/21/16 02:06 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Seeing as how I totally agreed with the thrust of your post I'm not sure why you directed that at me.

And as a matter of fact, I don't think anything particularly offensive has ever been said in this thread by anybody.

Personally, I'd like to see this thread broken up into its component parts. (I wonder how many there'd be?)


Edited by artie505 (05/21/16 02:07 AM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#40609 - 05/21/16 02:16 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Seeing as how I totally agreed with the thrust of your post I'm not sure why you directed that at me.

There is absolutely nothing in my post which could be construed as being directed at you; it consisted of general observations.

If anything, it related to the debate between kevs and you, as encapsulated in kevs's comment:
"Artie, I was not referencing you at all in that statement.and I appreciate your help. It blows my mind when people, and you see this a lot on some forums, not here so much, when people complain about threads and and questions, and the OP etc.
"I would never enter my brain ever to complain about anyone ever, if you don't like the thread, don't read the thread. It's amazing."

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#40611 - 05/21/16 02:31 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
It was specific in its "ad hominem" reference, so it just seemed to me that it should have been pointed elsewhere.

Let's quit while we're ahead. wink
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#40612 - 05/21/16 02:44 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
It was specific in its "ad hominem" reference, so it just seemed to me that it should have been pointed elsewhere.

No, it wasn't. I specifically stated that it was not to be interpreted as an ad hominem argument (and left names and references out of it).

We really need a separate forum or sub-forum for these little off-the-track excursions which detract from and are irrelevant to the original thread — ie, we need to "take it outside". I suppose the Lounge could be used for such, but it needs to be a place where combatants can duke it out safely (however that might be construed), without the fear of being banned from the forums altogether.

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#40613 - 05/21/16 02:50 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I meant that I thought your non-ad hominem reference should have been directed at joemike who found something posted by somebody or several somebodies offensive.

You're final paragraph is dangerous in its implications.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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