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#40381 - 05/08/16 02:58 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: tacit]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: tacit

SD doesn't seem to be as on top of operating system changes as CCC. I don't know how it handles drive recovery partitions, but I do know that since about OS X 10.7 or so, SD has steadily been getting less reliable.


I've been using SD ever since OS 10.9 (Mavericks) came out, and it is definitely reliable (and at times has been a life saver!). It DOES NOT backup/clone the Recovery HD partition, whereas CCC does. But, as I mentioned above, that is not an issue for me, and it is easy to re-create (I provided details above on how to do that).

Also, why do you say "SD has steadily been getting less reliable"? Again, that is certainly not the case for me.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#40382 - 05/08/16 03:34 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: kevs
Thanks Honestone, I have not used Tech Tool or Discwarrior for 8 years or so. It just seems that Mac OS has gotten much better and they are irrelevant. I have not missed them at all. Should I get one/ other or both still? I think Discwarrior was the stronger solution for Mac Hard drive issues. Discwarrior I remember not having a recovery disk, whereas I remember an "e" disc from tech tool. You need both?


Once in a while, Disk Warrior can do some additional "magic" that no other disk maintenance/repair program can do. But, I have yet to run into such instances.

The most recent version of Disk Warrior also comes on a bootable flash drive (I have the prior version, so I would need to boot that after booting from my SD clone (if I want to do repairs on my internal SSD)). TechTool Pro has an eDrive feature, which is a bootable volume that allows one to do maintenance/repairs on one's internal drive/SSD. (It is actually similar to the Recovery HD partition in functionality).

The important thing to remember is that maintaining Macs (and external devices) is just like owning and maintaining a car. The more cleanup/maintenance one does, the occurrence of problems/issues becomes less and less. Myself, I use Onyx, TechTool Pro, and SuperDuper! once a week (typically on Saturday mornings) to cleanup, check, repair, and backup/clone my internal SSD on each of my Macs to an external device (I actually have two external devices that I can boot the SD clone from. I also am constantly removing unnecessary stuff from each of my Macs on a daily basis).

So, to answer your question, no, you do not need both of them. But for me, with the eDrive feature, TechTool Pro is easier to use.

Originally Posted By: kevs
That said. IF I use SD, and don't have either of those, then I'm screwed? or There is that option of booting online, but you can't do that right at crisis time?


If you have not been maintaining the external drive that the SD clone is on, then that drive could go bad. Using Disk Utility, TechTool Pro, or Disk Warrior to keep that external drive in as best of shape as possible would minimize the crisis you describe. Given that it is a mechanical device, there is only so much one can do. But, at times, you'll get some warning "signs" that the drive is getting bad, and thus can take action.

But yes, if the external HD (or external SSD) that the SD clone is on goes "kaput", you would be "somewhat" screwed.

Originally Posted By: kevs
Also, even it TM is not bootable, it can become the replacement Mac OS of choice still right? So even the SD clone does not need to be the first in the line of restoration?


A TM backup does not contain a backup of the OS. So, in a catastrophe (assuming the internal drive/SSD is still OK), the recovery process would be:

1. Some way, boot your machine "externally". If the Recovery HD partition is still OK, you can boot your problematic machine from it.

2. Erase, and Format your internal drive using Disk Utility (that feature is part of the Recovery HD partition. (Disk Utility will also tell you how "healthy" the internal drive/SD is (as will TechTool Pro)). I don't know about other methods (except by doing it from an SD clone).

3. Perform a fresh, "virgin" installation of the OS.

4. Re-boot your Mac, and then use Migration Assistant to migrate/copy stuff from the TM backup.

Originally Posted By: kevs
Final question: I currently don't bother to save the last OS. Should I? You just go to the apple store and find El Capitan and download it and keep it on the Mac HD? Or couldn't I just do that in a crisis anyway?


You can do it in a crisis, but why wait until then? You should be able to go to the App Store and download/re-download the latest version of the OS you are using. For me, that would be OS 10.11.4, El Capitan. (And yes, you should be able to download it). When the download is complete, a file entitled "Install OS X El Capitan" will be in the Applications folder. It is then best to make at least one copy of that file somewhere else (and in fact, copy it also to the device that your backup is on).

Again, as I described above, having the file somewhere else (and especially on a backup (SD in my case)) comes in very handy when doing a recovery/restore.

To sum all this up, quite a lot of this depends on the following:

1. Which backup tool you use.

2. How meticulous one is in performing disk cleanup, maintenance, repairs, and backups.

3. How old are the devices one has (by that I mean internal drive/SD, and external drive/SD).


Edited by honestone (05/09/16 09:06 AM)
Edit Reason: Punctuation correction.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#40384 - 05/09/16 11:30 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: honestone]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Nice post H, thanks.

But why pay Discwarrior year after year, not a cheap software, why not buy when have to to? That's what I concluded 7 years ago, and still have not had to. Ditto for Tech tool Pro, which I found even weaker. I've never had Onyx solve anything. But I could change my mind about all this at any moment! So that's why I like to ask...

My scheduled backups from SD are once a day. Why not do daily?

The e drive in Tech tool pro has been superseded by recovery drive no? And BTW, there is an online version of that, I've never tried it.

I just bought brand new externals, two weeks ago. The old ones were working perfectly, but it was 5 years, people on forums say that 3-5 years is a good time to swap, you agree? I run test on the drives every blue moon. I used to test once a month, but others have said don't bother. Wait till there is an issue... all this pre-disaster testing is supposedly passe, fragmentation etc etc long gone..

I'll download El Capitan, but I guess you then upgrade to the version exactly are on later.. .1,2. .3... It seems there already in app folder: Install OS X El Capitan 6GB, maybe it's left there anyway?


But it'll go on Mac HD, not external. The external backups will be overwritten by SD, Time Machine is good in that it is versioned and will exist somewhere in there for weeks..

Any guess as to why SD did not solve the recovery drive thing? The developer is super smart, you would have to be to develop that. Easier to lower rate to $28, than to include recovery? any guess on that? And it's still not there? With CCC it just goes over with the Mac HD copy?


Edited by kevs (05/09/16 12:12 PM)

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#40385 - 05/09/16 04:18 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: kevs
But why pay Discwarrior year after year, not a cheap software….?

Year after year? I paid $64 (Canadian) for DW V4 in 2007 and $24 for a major upgrade in 2009. That's it until now….equal to about 81 cents a month.

Originally Posted By: kevs
….why not buy when have to to?

If you have a major calamity, that could be a bit late.


Edited by ryck (05/09/16 04:19 PM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
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Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
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#40386 - 05/09/16 05:25 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: kevs
….why not buy when have to to?

If you have a major calamity, that could be a bit late.

In the old days you had to wait to get your DiscWarrior disc in the mail, and that was unacceptable in the face of a calamity, but now that DW can be d/l'ed it's never too late as long as you've got a bootable volume.

DW may not be terribly pricey over the long haul*, but the latest upgrade is awfully pricey, and while it has got new extras, it doesn't improve on the functionality of an app that has, let's face it, gotten less and less important with each new version of OS X.

I'm with kevs on this one: I'll buy the upgrade when I need it, when "What if?" has turned to "Aw @#$^! What the %^&# do I do now?", not on spec.

Edit: *And all those "Only x¢/month!" items do add up.


Edited by artie505 (05/09/16 09:55 PM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#40387 - 05/09/16 06:32 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Ryck/ Artie

Thanks for reminding me about Discwarrior, I had forgot about it totally, and I used to have it in the early 2000s. Maybe I used it a couple of times. I remember that era of mind-bending Mac instability.

Artie, I just went to the site, so the core app is a download, and the flash drive must come in the mail. $120 man that 's a lot of any software these days. And how would you know if could help? Before this post (forgetting all about it), I would just assume the hardrive is fried...

Has Macs disc utility come close to doing what DW does? Is there a more economical product?

Finally, back to my question about SD, and I see Ryck uses it too:

Any guess as to why SD did not solve the recovery drive thing? The developer is super smart, you would have to be to develop that. Easier to lower rate to $28, than to include recovery? any guess on that? And it's still not there? With CCC it just goes over with the Mac HD copy?

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#40388 - 05/09/16 09:06 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
TechTool Pro costs less than Disk Warrior (in fact, there have been a couple of recent sales of TechTool Pro for $39.95).

Paying for upgrades is definitely the wise thing to do. Anything less is asking for trouble. In fact, there are instances where one must pay for the upgrade in order to use the new version with the new OS.

For me, Disk Utility has shortcomings, and Tech Tool Pro, a proven, solid utility, does so much more. And, it is so much easier to use it, with its eDrive feature.

Again, as I stated above, one key fact is being meticulous in taking care of one's machine. And, my analogy with that and taking care of a car is so, so accurate.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#40389 - 05/09/16 09:37 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: honestone]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
I used to do a "monthly maintenance" routine with Onyx, etc I had tech tool pro, disk warrior, I checked all my disc every month, and then a few people on this or another Mac forum said stop wasting your time and just deal with issues as they come. That was about 3-4 years ago, and I have had no issues since. I tend to agree then that the maintenance routine is a thing of the mid 2000's when Macs were very unstable. I'm not sure the car analogy works, but I do take my car it in every year and a half for a/b services.... but not every month.

So it's not even about the money for the apps, it's more about the time drain, and that it may not be needed or even helping.


Edited by kevs (05/09/16 09:38 PM)

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#40390 - 05/09/16 10:33 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Time Machine backups ARE NOT BOOTABLE however you can boot from a Recovery drive and then restore from a Time Machine backup. (Emphasis added)

Perhaps it's no more than a nomenclature issue, but that and

Originally Posted By: Apple Support
You can use OS X Recovery to do the following:

Restore your Mac from a Time Machine backup.

sound like they contradict a more recent post in this thread, i.e.

Originally Posted By: honestone
A TM backup does not contain a backup of the OS. So, in a catastrophe (assuming the internal drive/SSD is still OK), the recovery process would be:

1. Some way, boot your machine "externally". If the Recovery HD partition is still OK, you can boot your problematic machine from it.

2. Erase, and Format your internal drive using Disk Utility (that feature is part of the Recovery HD partition. (Disk Utility will also tell you how "healthy" the internal drive/SD is (as will TechTool Pro)). I don't know about other methods (except by doing it from an SD clone).

3. Perform a fresh, "virgin" installation of the OS.

4. Re-boot your Mac, and then use Migration Assistant to migrate/copy stuff from the TM backup. (Emphasis added)

My understanding has always been that you can do a complete restore of OS X from Time Machine, but I think clarification and resolution of any doubt/confusion that this thread may be causing will be helpful.

Thanks.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#40391 - 05/09/16 10:58 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
Artie, I just went to the [DiskWarrior] site, so the core app is a download, and the flash drive must come in the mail. $120 man that 's a lot of any software these days. And how would you know if could help? Before this post (forgetting all about it), I would just assume the hardrive is fried...

Has Macs disc utility come close to doing what DW does? Is there a more economical product?

I believe Disk Utility is more robust today than it was years ago, but I've got no reason to believe that it's anywhere near the equivalent of DW yet.

As honestone pointed out, TechTool Pro can be had for significantly less than DW costs, but as long as I've been around FTM (and MFIF earlier) DW has been pretty much everyone's number one choice...supported by many "DW fixed what TTP could NOT fix" posts. (All the apps I've run across that perform tasks similar to those of DW and TTP cost in the $100 range, but that's by no means a given.)

Originally Posted By: kevs
Finally, back to my question about SD, and I see Ryck uses it too:

Any guess as to why SD did not solve the recovery drive thing? The developer is super smart, you would have to be to develop that. Easier to lower rate to $28, than to include recovery? any guess on that? And it's still not there? With CCC it just goes over with the Mac HD copy?

That's really a question for Dave Nanian, kevs, but I'll take a guess that it simply comes down to methodology.

CCC uses "rsync" (V1 has posted about rsync many times, and I gather that he's quite fond of it.), which obviously can be tailored to clone the recovery partition while SD apparently uses code/methodology/technique(?) that just plain cannot do the same.

But yeah, you clone your boot drive with CCC, and if it's got a recovery partition it's part of the clone. (Is booting into a cloned recovery partition the same command-R boot as booting into an OS X installed one?)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#40392 - 05/09/16 11:02 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
btw good time to ask, for a couple of years I've seen Hardware growl going off: recover drive mounted, recovery drive unmounted. Why is this drive constantly mounting and unmounting? I'm not doing anything.

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#40393 - 05/09/16 11:43 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: honestone]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: honestone
The most recent version of Disk Warrior also comes on a bootable flash drive (I have the prior version [DW v 4.x], so I would need to boot that after booting from my SD clone (if I want to do repairs on my internal SSD)). (Emphasis added)

Originally Posted By: honestone
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.4 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer (Emphasis added)

Originally Posted By: Alsoft
DiskWarrior 4 is not compatible with OS X 10.11 or later.

Just a reminder that the prior version of DiskWarrior you're running is incompatible with the version of OS X you're running.


Edited by artie505 (05/10/16 07:18 AM)
Edit Reason: Cleanup
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#40394 - 05/10/16 07:59 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
My understanding has always been that you can do a complete restore of OS X from Time Machine, but I think clarification and resolution of any doubt/confusion that this thread may be causing will be helpful.

Thanks.

TIME MACHINE BACKUPS ARE NOT BOOTABLE but you can restore your system from a Time Machine backup by booting from the Recovery Drive.

When you boot from the Recovery Drive you have four options available…
  1. Restore from a Time Machine Backup. This literally copies your system from the Time Machine backup to the hard drive and you can choose to restore from any point in time. For example a couple of weeks ago something happened to my Keychain and I was unable to logon or do anything to get into my system. So I booted from the Recovery Drive, chose Restore from a Time Machine backup, picked a time from the previous evening when I knew the Keychain was working and Restored my system with no real loss of data. 😎
  2. Reinstall OS X — which is exactly what it sounds like. The latest version is downloaded from the internet, and you get a fresh clean installation of OS X. As this is a normal install you can also run Migration Assistant and recover your files, apps, settings, etc. from a Time Machine backup or another bootable volume.
  3. Get Help Online — I haven't tried that one yet but it seems pretty obvious
  4. Disk Utility — a full version of Disk Utility that can be used to run Disk First Aid, partition/repartition/Erase the HD or volume.

Originally Posted By: artie505
DW has been pretty much everyone's number one choice...supported by many "DW fixed what TTP could NOT fix" posts. (All the apps I've run across that perform tasks similar to those of DW and TTP cost in the $100 range, but that's by no means a given.)

Not quite ][i]everyones's number one choice. smile Not a hit on Diskwarrior, it is a fine and useful app, but I have used TTP for many years and have never found a situation it could not handle. But that is just my experience.
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#40395 - 05/10/16 08:08 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: artie505]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: artie505

Just a reminder that the prior version of DiskWarrior you're running is incompatible with the version of OS X you're running.


Yes, I am completely aware of that, and thus use Tech Tool Pro instead (and keeping it updated, so as to be proactive instead of reactive for issues.


Edited by honestone (05/10/16 08:32 AM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

Top
#40396 - 05/10/16 08:31 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: kevs
I used to do a "monthly maintenance" routine with Onyx, etc I had tech tool pro, disk warrior, I checked all my disc every month, and then a few people on this or another Mac forum said stop wasting your time and just deal with issues as they come. That was about 3-4 years ago, and I have had no issues since. I tend to agree then that the maintenance routine is a thing of the mid 2000's when Macs were very unstable. I'm not sure the car analogy works, but I do take my car it in every year and a half for a/b services.... but not every month.

So it's not even about the money for the apps, it's more about the time drain, and that it may not be needed or even helping.


I realize that the time it takes for any task needs to be considered. The car analogy is pertinent, as one can do some useful things on their own between trips to the dealer for service. For example, such tasks as checking air pressure in tires, changing the cabin air filter, changing the air filter, using a device like Battery Tender (https://www.zoro.com/battery-tender-batt...mp;gclsrc=aw.ds) to keep the battery fully charged (and getting more life out of it), and changing fuses are things one can do for their own. And of course keep it clean.

For my weekly disk cleanup/maintenance/repair and backup tasks for both of my machines, I am actually multi-tasking and doing something else useful while those processes are running, and the timing works out perfectly. But, if I were to just do those tasks without doing something else, yes, that could deter me from doing it. But, I have been doing it for so long, it is second nature to me.

The one thing that should be done every time one uses their machine is to get rid of unneeded stuff. That takes hardly any time at all. For example, I have a folder entitled "Useful Software" on each of my machines, and within it are folders for containing updates for software (some of those folders contain the original app too). When an update comes out, I download it, install it, make sure it works, save the update to the applicable folder, and get rid of the "next to next" most recent update. That is, if I have versions 1 and 2 of an update, with 2 being the most recent one, and 3 becomes available, after saving it, I get rid of #1. (By the way, and knock on wood, I've never had an issue with an update not working. But, I can always revert back to the prior good one).

I also am constantly deleting EMails on a daily basis, but given I use Outlook, they actually do not get removed permanently from the Identity "file" for Office 2011. To permanently get rid of them, as part of my weekly processing, I run a simple to use process to permanently get rid of them.

To sum up, it all depends on how much one is willing to do, whether one wants to be proactive or reactive for issues, and devoting the time and effort.


Edited by honestone (05/10/16 08:37 AM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#40397 - 05/10/16 08:42 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: kevs
?

Finally, back to my question about SD, and I see Ryck uses it too:

Any guess as to why SD did not solve the recovery drive thing? The developer is super smart, you would have to be to develop that. Easier to lower rate to $28, than to include recovery? any guess on that? And it's still not there? With CCC it just goes over with the Mac HD copy?


I also don't know why, but as I pointed out above, there are a couple of ways of re-creating it.


Edited by honestone (05/10/16 07:45 PM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

Top
#40398 - 05/10/16 08:44 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: joemikeb]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: joemikeb

Not quite ][i]everyones's number one choice. smile Not a hit on Diskwarrior, it is a fine and useful app, but I have used TTP for many years and have never found a situation it could not handle. But that is just my experience.


Well said! That has been my experience also.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

Top
#40399 - 05/10/16 08:50 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: honestone]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks H, I'm very proactive, but someone suggested 7 years ago on this or another Mac forum, to let it go, not worry, (kind of like AV), and I've had no issues and have saved probably 200 hours of doing all that. My 2009 27" never broke once in any way. For cars, they have also come a long way from the 70's. I just take in my 2002 to the dealer every 18 months and they check all those things, no need for me to do anything you just listed.

Again curious : Any idea why hardware growl is always reporting recovery drive mounted/ unmounted, is that ok?

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#40400 - 05/10/16 12:10 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: kevs
Again curious : Any idea why hardware growl is always reporting recovery drive mounted/ unmounted, is that ok?

There are a myriad of possibilities and without spending an inordinate amount of time searching your log files I can only speculate that is something running in background on your computer (apparently you have no small number of things running in background including Sophos). My best guess is one of those utilities is checking the Recovery Drive and in order to do that it would have to mount the volume (Recovery Drive is a volume on your boot drive and not a separate drive) then as a well behaved app dismounts the Recovery Drive when it finishes.

If you have several hours/days to spend you can probably isolate the culprit by removing everything from
  • /Library/LaunchAgents,
  • ~/Library/LaunchAgents,
  • /library/LaunchDaemons,
  • ~/Library/LaunchDaemons,
  • and System Preferences ➯ Users ➯ your account ➯ Login Items
being careful not to disable Hardware Growler of course — and then running the system to see if the mounts/dismounts recur. If they do then Hardware Grwoler may be the culprit otherwise — one at a time add back each of the Startup Items, LaunchDaemons, and LaunchAgents — rebooting and running for a day or two until you are confident the mounts/dismounts are not going to occur or the mounts and dismounts do recur. When the latter happens the culprit would be the last item reactivated.

FWIW I used to perform a regular ritual of maintenance routines including volume structure checks, surface scans, permission repair, file defragmentation, volume defragmentation, log rotation, etc., etc., etc. but over the years I have slowly abandoned all of that and my systems are more stable and run better and faster than ever. (The Keychain problem I mentioned earlier was, my own fault and related to a series of changes I was making attendant to converting/upgrading the 1.1 TB Fusion Drive in my Mac mini into separate 1TB SSD and HDs and not a maintenance or system glitch.)
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joemikeb • moderator

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#40401 - 05/10/16 05:07 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Joe, I'll let it go, but that was timely as we are talkign about the recovery drive, I've been seeing this for a year or two, recovery drive mounts/ unmounts. It's not a big deal, I'll eventually bail on the AV, so hopefully that's it, but it does not matter.

Interesting that you also don't do the maintenance anymore. Isn't it great not to have to bother? I think that's nice...

You may have been the the one to say don't bother anymore, but I cannot remember now....

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#40402 - 05/10/16 07:57 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: kevs
Thanks H, I'm very proactive, but someone suggested 7 years ago on this or another Mac forum, to let it go, not worry, (kind of like AV), and I've had no issues and have saved probably 200 hours of doing all that. My 2009 27" never broke once in any way. For cars, they have also come a long way from the 70's. I just take in my 2002 to the dealer every 18 months and they check all those things, no need for me to do anything you just listed.


I have been reading the same thing on numerous Mac sites for quite some time, but I prefer to stay ahead of issues, instead of reacting to them (as long as I can do that, and for Macs and cars, I can). One never knows when an emergency can occur, but one can take necessary precautions.

As for automobiles, makes no difference what decade the vehicle was made in. It is always good to perform as much preventative maintenance as possible. Besides saving money (and for most things with cars, that is significant), one learns some things about their automobiles.

Simple example: cabin air filters can go "bad" after 12 months. For both cars that we own, they are a snap to replace. Also, I do not need to make an appointment with the dealer, drive down there and wait around until they are done, and then drive home. I just go to the auto parts store not far from where I live, purchase one for at least 70% less than the dealer would charge, drive back home, take out the old one, and install the new one. Total time: less than 1 1/2 hours. To me, besides the cost savings, and learning something about my car, that is a WAY more efficient use of my time.

In any event, to each his/her own. I just prefer to be more actively involved with my cars and computers (I also follow the same philosophy with other tasks/things).
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#40403 - 05/10/16 08:01 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: joemikeb]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: joemikeb

FWIW I used to perform a regular ritual of maintenance routines including volume structure checks, surface scans, permission repair, file defragmentation, volume defragmentation, log rotation, etc., etc., etc. but over the years I have slowly abandoned all of that and my systems are more stable and run better and faster than ever. (The Keychain problem I mentioned earlier was, my own fault and related to a series of changes I was making attendant to converting/upgrading the 1.1 TB Fusion Drive in my Mac mini into separate 1TB SSD and HDs and not a maintenance or system glitch.)


I still do most of those tasks (don't know what "log rotation" is, but I do use Onyx to delete some logs), and both of my Macs always run "lean, clean, and mean". Given that both of my Macs now have SSDs (not hybrid drives), Volume Optimization is not longer applicable, nor recommended. I do though still use TechTool Pro to perform File Optimization.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#40404 - 05/10/16 08:25 PM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: honestone]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
If it makes you feel good H, but none of this is needed anymore.

In the 70 and 80s you had to change your oil every 3k miles? I bought a new 2002 Mercedes SLK, I've never done an oil change. It taken care of on the every 18th month visit. So yeah, things do change as per the year of the car. Same with the computer. Apple is on the case -- you may be doing a lot of busy work for for nothing.

...If it makes you feel good

I tested it, and I'm here to report it's not needed, and Joe said as much, and he knows a lot more about Macs that I do.!

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#40406 - 05/11/16 08:13 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: honestone]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: honestone
I do though still use TechTool Pro to perform File Optimization.
File optimization is no longer recommended for exactly the same reasons volume optimization is no longer recommended. It causes unnecessary write operations that contribute to the early demise of SSDs and has no noticeable effect on performance.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#40407 - 05/11/16 08:20 AM Re: Antivirus and copy conflict [Re: kevs]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: kevs
If it makes you feel good H, but none of this is needed anymore.

In the 70 and 80s you had to change your oil every 3k miles? I bought a new 2002 Mercedes SLK, I've never done an oil change. It taken care of on the every 18th month visit. So yeah, things do change as per the year of the car. Same with the computer. Apple is on the case -- you may be doing a lot of busy work for for nothing.

...If it makes you feel good

I tested it, and I'm here to report it's not needed, and Joe said as much, and he knows a lot more about Macs that I do.!


It not only makes me feel good, but I am actually learning useful things.

I do agree with you about oil changes. We have a 2005 Mercedes CLK 320, and a 2013 Toyota Camry V6 XLE, and I do not change the oil myself. For the Mercedes, I do take it to a third party place (very reliable), and they charge less than half than what the dealer charges for that service. There are similar savings on brakes.

But, changing air and cabin air filters, checking air pressure in tires, changing fuses, and charging the battery are not difficult at all. For my Macs, as I said, I am multi-tasking while the disk maintenance is going on, so I am thus not waisting time and effort.

But again, if it makes you happy to just wait for things to happen, fine. I myself will continue to get in front of things.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

Top
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