An open community 
of Macintosh users,
for Macintosh users.

FineTunedMac Dashboard widget now available! Download Here

Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#39583 - 03/21/16 08:45 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: slolerner
That's great. They should not because if they do it, there is really no way to keep something as valuable as that vulnerability a secret. It would make the phone hackable.

Which is the basis for Apple's resistance to what is an arguably illegal order from the DoJ.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#39587 - 03/21/16 12:19 PM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
But, even if the engineers quit, the All Rits Act still applies. confused

Top
#39588 - 03/21/16 01:08 PM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: slolerner]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: slolerner
But, even if the engineers quit, the All [Writs] Act still applies. confused

That's in the same display case as Washington's wooden teeth. tongue smirk

Top
#39590 - 03/21/16 02:47 PM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: grelber]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Just saying... The Act is so ill-defined and far-reaching the consequences of bringing it up at this time is a disaster.

Top
#39592 - 03/21/16 05:05 PM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: slolerner]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

Top
#39593 - 03/21/16 05:33 PM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: jchuzi]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Nice, Apple can use that exploit to develop stronger encrytion. Cook played Tom Perry's "Won't back down" when he exited today's new product launch.

Top
#39594 - 03/21/16 05:48 PM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
That's Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers...GREAT band!
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top
#39595 - 03/21/16 07:43 PM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Damn autocorrect.

Top
#39600 - 03/22/16 02:33 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: slolerner]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: slolerner
Damn autocorrect.

Everybody should turn autocorrect off. The best it can do is make its users seem illiterate/preliterate.
I'd rather see legitimate mistakes = human errors than robotic ones.
(And yes, I know that the robots were created by humans, but their algorithms are soulless.)

Top
#39601 - 03/22/16 02:52 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Why does autocorrect even bother with proper names? Once a word begins with a cap letter all bets are off. (Or did slolerner accidentally hit the key next to the "t"?)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

Top
#39603 - 03/22/16 05:24 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: slolerner]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: slolerner
I just heard that a security vulnerability has been found that may lead to hackers being able to crack one, unbelievably. Now the plot thickens.

Considering all the recent reports of the FBI and CIA using previously unknown zero-days, I think it's foolish to believe that they haven't already cracked it, and this is just public show to lull the terrorists into believing they are still safe using iPhones to do their business. The day it comes out they can crack an iPhone will be the day they stop using them, so it only makes sense. Enigma was this way in WW2, the british did everything in their power (including sacrificing entire cities!) to keep hitler convinced they hadn't broken enigma, because it was just too valuable of a source of intelligence to lose.
_________________________
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

Top
#39606 - 03/22/16 06:13 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: slolerner]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley

Originally Posted By: slolerner
Nice, Apple can use that exploit to develop stronger encrytion.

Hmmmm. That would assume the FBI will be cooperative with Apple and let them know how they broke into the phone. Why do I have this niggling feeling that the FBI is not likely to help Apple?
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX712 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Super Duper on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
#39612 - 03/22/16 06:59 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: ryck]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: ryck

Originally Posted By: slolerner
Nice, Apple can use that exploit to develop stronger encrytion.

Hmmmm. That would assume the FBI will be cooperative with Apple and let them know how they broke into the phone. Why do I have this niggling feeling that the FBI is not likely to help Apple?

Clearly you don't know about the mole(s) among the ranks. smirk

Top
#39613 - 03/22/16 07:48 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: grelber]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Or it's disinformation.

BTW, it's an android phone and slolerner needs autocorrect on this tiny keyboard because the old phone was a slider with a 'chicklet' keyboard. It is annoying that it does correct capitalized words.

Top
#39614 - 03/22/16 08:08 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: grelber]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: grelber
Clearly you don't know about the mole(s) among the ranks. smirk

Considering that moles are spies usually planted well in advance of a need for information, so they can work their way deep into an organization, I think it's unlikely that Apple has ever planted such agents in the FBI. I'm not an expert in such intrigue but I'd assume that the opposite (FBI into Apple) is more probable.


Edited by ryck (03/22/16 08:10 AM)
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX712 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Super Duper on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
#39615 - 03/22/16 08:23 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: ryck]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: grelber
Clearly you don't know about the mole(s) among the ranks. smirk

Considering that moles are spies usually planted well in advance of a need for information, so they can work their way deep into an organization, I think it's unlikely that Apple has ever planted such agents in the FBI. I'm not an expert in such intrigue but I'd assume that the opposite (FBI into Apple) is more probable.

Either way, ain't we got fun?! grin

Top
#39627 - 03/23/16 06:09 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: grelber]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: grelber
Clearly you don't know about the mole(s) among the ranks. smirk

Proper encryption isn't vulnerable to moles. If it's designed correctly there's no back door or shortcuts in existence, there's nothing to steal and give out.

The only thing right now that qualifies with that is the private key to their software signing certificate that tells the iPad the firmware you just uploaded to it is genuine and to allow the installation to take place. Pretty sure Apple keeps really tight control over that particular key, and will aggressively bar-b-qua anyone they catch copying it.

That sort of data exists in only there or four places in the world, inside very secure safes with singularly limited physical access, and only comes out when the GM firmware update needs to be signed.
_________________________
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

Top
#39631 - 03/23/16 08:24 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: Virtual1]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Quote:
Proper encryption isn't vulnerable to moles.

Somewhere at least one someone has access (key to the ark of the covenant). So somewhere a vulnerability exists. And moles exploit that.

Top
#39632 - 03/23/16 10:29 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: grelber]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: grelber
Quote:
Proper encryption isn't vulnerable to moles.

Somewhere at least one someone has access (key to the ark of the covenant). So somewhere a vulnerability exists. And moles exploit that.

Like I said, in a locked safe, on an air-gapped flash drive

At that point if you still have a security problem, it's a physical security problem. Keycard accessed doors, alarms, and good safes are generally good protection against that. Don't give the combo to the safe to the janitor and you should be ok.
_________________________
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

Top
#39633 - 03/23/16 11:18 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: Virtual1]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Or, it's disinformation and a way for FBI to step down without losing face. They now know how many companies they are up against. Tim Cook is not going to budge and they know that. Given tacit's explanation, I am somewhat dubious what the FBI is saying is true. There are many good hackers out there, the info on iPhones is valuable to every one of them, and I'm certain they have tried everything possible to get it.

Virtual1 is right about not revealing code breaking in times of war. If they knew how to crack the phone, then no doubt they would have been using it for some time previously to this, not to unlock a work phone when the personal phone was destroyed. This was a high profile case where they could rally public pressure. Let's wait and see if the Sheriff in Florida gets the FBI to unlock that phone...

It could also be a way to retaliate against Tim Cook and hurt sales. Now the pressure is on him to make an iphone even more secure and there will be even more public pressure against that.


Edited by slolerner (03/23/16 11:35 AM)
Edit Reason: More

Top
#39634 - 03/23/16 01:39 PM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
This MacNN article reveals how deeply embedded customer privacy is embedded in Apple's corporate structure. Even to the point of killing or nearly killing some technologies due to privacy concerns.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#39655 - 03/25/16 12:08 PM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Interesting reader comment at the end of the article:
Quote:
Apple hasn't learned the lesson it should have learned from its now-failed ebook dispute. If you trash-talk about courts or federal agencies, it may look good with your fans, but the courts and agencies have ways to get back at you.

I still don't believe the phone was unlocked, sorry.

Top
#39693 - 03/27/16 03:11 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: slolerner]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
FBI's "Outside Party" Revealed as Bureau Angles to Keep New Hack Secret An interesting irony is the following statement in that article:

Apple's attorneys said Monday they would request the FBI inform them of the security flaw they discovered and how they were able to exploit it.

As Bloomberg explains, the FBI may in fact be subject to a little-known process called the "equities review," which was created by the Obama administration to determine if security flaws should be disclosed.

"I do think it should be subjected to an equities review," Chris Inglis, former National Security Agency (NSA) deputy director, told Bloomberg. "The government cannot choose sides in the tension between individual and collective security so the equities process should be run to put both on a level playing field."

Nate Cardozo, staff attorney at the digital rights group Electronic Frontier Foundation, added, "The equities process is supposed to apply to anytime the government discovers, learns of, buys or uses vulnerabilities of any kind. If it's anything where they're attacking the phone in software, it would be subject to the equities review."


Will Apple now sue the FBI to force it to reveal its secrets?
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

Top
#39695 - 03/27/16 07:30 AM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: slolerner]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
I take it back, if the source was an Israeli sofware engineer, the chances of unlocking the phone have greatly improved. Their engineers took down an off-the-grid nuclear power plant. The good news is if there is something in the interest of their own security they will unlock the phone but probably never tell the FBI how they did it. The FBI will be sending them any phone connected with a terrorist act.

IMHO, if the FBI had ever really valued the content of the phone we never would have heard about any of this.


Edited by slolerner (03/27/16 07:40 AM)
Edit Reason: More

Top
#39699 - 03/27/16 01:50 PM Re: Why Tim Cook Won't back Down [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: slolerner
IMHO, if the FBI had ever really valued the content of the phone we never would have heard about any of this.

You aren't by any chance implying the FBI would attempt to distract the public as well as the bad guys from its incompetence in electronic criminology are you? smile
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >

Moderator:  alternaut, cyn