Home Forums Hardware Mac Desktops & Notebooks El Cap safe boot screen oddity

(I yam disgustipated!)

Until I get some response to this post I won't know whether it belongs here or in the Mac OS X System Forum.

I'm not panicking over this, because I've still got AppleCare, but since upgrading to El Cap I've been seeing really weird graphics when I log in in safe mode, and if I log out of my main account into my test account the weirdness recurs...but it happens only in safe mode.

This screenshot and this one will give you an idea of what I'm seeing...

Black bars, in a variety of configurations, against a white background scroll from the bottom of my screen to the top, and the phenomenon repeats three times before I get to my desktop. (The artifact in the middle of the screen in the 2nd shot is the password entry field, and in the video you can see the work wheel spinning beneath it. So, to put it explicitly, my strange graphics overlay what's on my screen,)

It may be important to note that the boot process that gets me to the login screen runs as expected.

There have been any number of reports of graphics glitches in El Cap, but searching hasn't turned up anything close to this one.

I don't want to book a "Genius" appointment without knowing that I need to, so first, does anybody else see what I'm seeing or have anything to offer about it?

Thanks.

Edit: The mp4 is manageably sized at 680 KB, so if I can't upload it I can email it to anybody who'd like to see it.

I suspect this is one of those issues that is a tossup whether it is software, or hardware centric — that line can get pretty blurry on some issues.

I had not paid much (any) particular attention to this before, but I have noticed occasional instances on boot up or reboot where I see a momentary ghost of a previous screen or desktop, then the screen blanks again for a few seconds and the expected desktop appears normally. This is during a normal boot (I seldom ever have need of a safe boot), occurs rarely (there again I don't boot very often), and I wouldn't have a clue where to start trying to replicate the phenomena.

I have run the TechTool Pro 8 graphics test and it was completely uneventful, but then I don't think what I have seen is purely hardware.

IIRC You have a MacBook Pro with Intel Iris graphics? I am wondering because my Mac mini has Intel graphics also.

Thanks.


I forgot about Apple Hardware Test, and it didn't occur to me that my not up to date TTP 6's video memory test wouldn't be dangerous as it won't involve OS X.

I'll call AppleCare and see what they have to say, and V1 may have something to contribute.

I'm torn between wanting to avoid a trip to the "Genius" Bar and wanting to get my money's worth from my AppleCare.

Edit: My deuced Mac(hina) passed TTP 6's video memory test, but who's the genius who designed AHT with the RAM test first so you have to listen to your fans for forever before the 5 (if that many) minutes of important stuff run? Is there a logical reason for it?

Edit 2: Passed AHT.

Well, I gritted my teeth preparatory to listening to Apple's truly horrible - Even their own people hate it! - "hold" music and called AppleCare, and I was told that what I'm seeing is a natural occurrence in El Cap...that it's the result of video drivers not having loaded yet....which sounds totally plausible.

Would somebody be kind enough to boot into safe mode and verify that for me?

Thanks.

Edit: OK, I can understand that the phenomenon results from the drivers not having loaded yet when I first log in, but why should it recur when I log in to my test account after they've already loaded? Or are the drivers account specific?

I just booted my mid 2013 13" MacBook Air to Safe Mode, and after some brief "flickering", I did get my usual Mac desktop. (I am running the latest version of El Capitan, OS 10.11.3).

I'll try my late 2012 Mac Mini later, which has an "older", but definitely reliable, 19" Sony Monitor attached to the Mac Mini.

Well, shortly after I booted into Safe Mode on my MacBook Air (and had no issues, both before, during, and after that), I did the same for my late 2012 Mac Mini (2.3 GHz Intel Core i7, 4 gig of RAM, 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD), and I had issues. What happened is after I booted into Safe Mode, and then re-booted the machine normally, I had issues (initially) with 3 System Demon files:

com.apple.audio.systemsoundserverd.plist
com.apple.ifdreader.plist
com.apple.wdhelper.plist

The first obvious problem was that my external Sony 19" monitor flickered a few times before the desktop appeared. Secondly, quite a bit more memory was being consumed at start up, compared to prior to booting to Safe Mode. Third, EtreCheck stated that those 3 System Demon "processes" were killed, due to insufficient RAM! This is the FIRST time I have ever encountered that.

Unfortunately, I could not simply get rid of those files (and thus hoping a re-boot of the machine, via the OS, would "re-make" those files). So, I went ahead and rebooted the Mini from the SuperDuper! backup on an external drive I did last Saturday. My thought was that that backup did not have those "dirty" files, and a complete restore from that backup (along with eventually applying any "in between" updates, like my EMail, Quicken account files, etc.) would alleviate the issue. Unfortunately, that did not work. When I re-booted to the restored system on the SSD, those issues with the 3 files were still there!

I was truly perplexed, as I am very meticulous about running, and keeping, a "lean and clean" machine (actually, both of my Macs). I actually then thought about doing another re-boot from the SuperDuper! backup, then running Disk Utility from there to Erase and Format the SSD, perform a fresh, clean installation of OS 10.11.1, apply the OS 10.11.3 Combo Updater, re-boot the mini into a fresh, clean OS 10.11.3 OS, and then use Migration Assistant to "migrate"/copy all the "applicable stuff" from the backup Yes, that would have been quite a bit of work.

Instead, I decided to run Onyx and perform its numerous, useful functions, including Repair Permissions. Well, I am happy to say that the issue with those 3 files is gone! After I did that with Onyx, I shut down the Mac Mini, waited a few minutes, and started it up again. Hardly any flickering this time, and now the memory used at startup is much, much better, just about back to normal. And, EtreCheck does not show any issues with anything (except 3 "small" ones which I am aware of, and they are not issues at all).

So, not sure if this explains any Safe Boot issues and El Capitan, but it sure shows the value of Onyx, no matter what anyone says!

I have a server that's an iMac Core 2 Duo (one of the first aluminum ones, not the plastic ones) that's currently running El Capitan Server.

I was curious, so I rebooted it in Safe Mode. No weird flickering or other screen artifacts.

Any issues with more memory being used at start up? What about running EtherCheck and see what it says?

Thanks very much for that, tacit. (I'd really appreciate a few similar posts.)

Edit: Knowing you, I assume that you didn't stop at the login screen but logged in, but also knowing the nature of assumptions I'm asking.

I intend to call AppleCare again, because safe mode notwithstanding,

1. it strikes me as more than passing strange that video drivers would not have loaded before I got to the login screen, and
2. it strikes me as even stranger that they would unload and reload each time I logged in to a different account.

I just can't trust AppleCare on this one without some in-depth digging...particularly with only 60 days of AppleCare remaining.

Too bad my efforts are not appreciated. But, I did login on BOTH of my machines when I booted to safe mode. It is strange that I had no issues on my Mac Book Air, but not so on my Mac Mini. Again, I use all the same software on both machines, including the latest version of El Capitan (and the latest version of TechTool Pro, V8.0.3). Of course, the make up of the two machines is different, especially with the fact that the Air has a built in monitor, whereas I am using an external 19" Sony model with the Mini.

Oh well, at least I solved my issues. And, given all the tools I have, I don't need Safe Mode (nor folks that don't appreciate my efforts to help).

Sorry, but I respond to posts only after I've fully digested them, not in order of their position in the queue, and without regard to whose feathers may get ruffled thereby.

Your four posts in this thread are mostly comprised of an unrelated issue that should have been posted in its own thread - even though you apparently can't tell us which of OnyX's functions solved your problem...exceedingly poor troubleshooting technique - with a relevant title, and expositions of your routines and opinions with which we're already all too familiar (all of which, by the way, is diametrically opposed to your KISSs philosophy), and minimally comprised of inconsistent and incomplete reports regarding its subject; they required a considerable amount of thought to digest and address within the limits the Mods allow.




Those last two posts seem to contradict the first one's "flickering".

You didn't mention whether you saw anything out of the ordinary on your other Mac.

Did what you saw look anything like the screenshots I posted?

Did it strike you as visual evidence of video drivers loading?

Anything else pertinent?

You can still make a valuable contribution to this thread, one that I'll appreciate, if you focus on its issue and accurately report what you saw as respects it without burying your report in a mass of useless, extraneous issues and personal preferences.

Edit: And I'll repeat my earlier suggestion that you get over yourself.

Artie,

Stop poking the bear! Nobody on these forums is being helped by this direction. You've been around long enough to know better.

If this thread doesn't get back to the topic and resume our desired level of conflict and drama (VERY low tolerance for that), I will be forced to lock it down....

Perhaps the difference in how your two machines reacted could be related to the different hardware, i.e., the graphics card, in each respectively....

Yep. Logging in also revealed no oddity.

Given the age of my iMac, the simplest explanation might be just that the video drivers are a lot simpler, and therefore either load more quickly (so I don't notice any weirdness) or are loaded in a different way or a different order. I don't really understand the OS X driver model, so I don't know which is more likely.

My system uses less RAM in safe mode than in normal mode.

Too bad there are narrow minded folks like yourself! I was only trying to provide some assistance when you asked if someone could try and boot to Safe Mode, and using El Capitan.

I will try and explain this as if you were a 6 year old (another one of my favorite lines, from "Philadelphia", where Denzel Washington says "Explain this to me like I'm a 6 year old". Certainly applicable here).

Regarding my first post about that, I stated very clearly that after some brief filckering, I did get the normal Mac desktop. That would certainly say that I did not experience, nor see, the screen shots you encountered.

Secondly, it was similar for my Mac Mini. Again, I stated the flickering business, but I did not get any of the screen shots you posted.

Third, your original, first post in this forum was about the possible "connection" between El Capitan and Safe Mode. I made two helpful posts for my Macs that are running OS 10.11.3, the newest version of El Capitan.

Fourth, the issues I encountered on my Mac Mini were specific issues booting to Safe Mode under OS 10.11.3, El Capitan. Although not the same issue that you had, I think such information would be helpful, but I guess that is only for open minded folks.

Finally, the solution I found is also helpful, and pertinent to Safe Mode and El Capitan.

So, stop being narrow minded. Open minded is the way to go! And, such an attitude goes perfectly with my KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple Stupid.

I thought I did that with my posts. And yes, it would be good to get back on topic.

If you are referring to my post above, yes, that is true. Actually, I did say in that post "Of course, the make up of the two machines is different, especially with the fact that the Air has a built in monitor, whereas I am using an external 19" Sony model with the Mini.".

Sorry, MM; I'm restraining myself even as I type this.

So am I, MM. But, don't worry, I am not going to exhibit behavior such as "Stupid is as stupid does". My posts will be on topic.

Enough drama and insults. If you two continue sniping at each other and disrupting civil discussion, in this and other threads, then I'll be handing out bans.

Sounds good to me. As Sidney Poitier said to Richard Gere in the movie "The Jackal":

Go along, and we'll get along.

Truer words never spoken!

Honestone,

Your movie quotes can be misinterpreted as continued sniping (whether intentional or not, we are giving you the benefit of the doubt), so to close this issue completely I will quote the ultimate movie buff from "NCIS", VERY special agent Anthony Dinozzo, when he says....[headslap]"No more yaba yaba boss!"[/headslap].....

Your presence here is welcome and your experience with the Macintosh platform and environment has been a positive contribution that I would like to see continue.

MM,

That last movie quote was a general, gentle one. As it is, it is certainly valid, no matter what is being discussed.

I appreciate your comment about my presence here. I do have quite a lot of experience with Macs, and I am more than willing to help. That is what I was attempting to do above. (On another Mac discussion site, I have helped numerous individuals, and it has been greatly appreciated. I am hoping to experience the same here). Also, I am of course receptive to learn new things too. As the old saying goes, "Learn something new every day". Just like "Go along, and we'll get along", that applies everywhere, not just on a Mac forum. If others take the same attitude, then all is well. I certainly believe in that. The question is, do others? I certainly hope so.

Update... Preparatory to a visit to the Genius Bar I've removed my 8 GB Crucial RAM and reinstalled my 4 GB OEM RAM, and I've done a nuke & pave, but my issue persists. (Should I swap out my SSD for my OEM HDD, too?)

I'd still love to hear about a few more people's experiences logging in to their accounts during a safe boot (in El Cap) to either solidify my issue or save me the trip to the Apple Store.

Advance thanks to any experimenters.

I've done some more investigation. On my iMac 9,1 (Intel Core 2 Duo), booting in safe mode in El Cap does not show any screen anomalies. [b]But:[/url] On my Macbook Pro (mid 2012), it does.

I get exactly the same kind of screen tearing and weird rolling bars as shown in Artie's images.

It appears that this is a consequence of the way El Cap handles video card drivers and certain video hardware. El Cap does not load all of the video card drivers in Safe Boot mode; it loads some minimal set of drivers that doesn't enable all the GPU capabilities. I don't know the details, but it for sure affects computers with Intel HD Graphics 4000, and possibly with other Intel and nVidia graphics hardware as well.