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#39303 - 03/06/16 08:29 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: honestone]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: honestone
Also, just yesterday, he won 2 more states.

Originally Posted By: Google
Mar 5
Kansas · 40 delegates
Cruz won and has 24 delegates, Trump has 9, Rubio has 6, Kasich has 1
Kentucky · 46 delegates
Trump won and has 17 delegates, Cruz has 15, Rubio has 7, Kasich has 7
Louisiana · 46 delegates
100% reporting · Trump won and has 18 delegates, Cruz has 18, Rubio has 5
Maine · 23 delegates
Cruz won and has 12 delegates, Trump has 9, Kasich has 2

Hmmm... Cruz 69 delegates + >50% in each of the states he won, Trump 53 delegates, but only 35 of 92 in the states he won in.

You need to re-examine your understanding of the word "win".

(And your "excitement" is pretty much all dated.)
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#39304 - 03/06/16 08:46 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
...my guess is that the next two weeks are going to see a barrage of ruthless anti-Trump attack ads sponsored by the sectarian right and by funding covered in Koch brother fingerprints.

The intention of the ads will be to push Cruz to the front, a prospect I find be just as scary as Trump....maybe even scarier.

I think the priority at the moment, with which I agree, is ensuring that Trump doesn't win the candidacy before the convention.

The Koch Brothers don't seem all that high on Cruz either, and what they've got in mind for the convention is anyone's guess...not to mention great bar conversation.
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#39305 - 03/06/16 09:34 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
Hmmm... Cruz 69 delegates + >50% in each of the states he won, Trump 53 delegates, but only 35 of 92 in the states he won in.

I've done a bit of reading about the American system (gosh, it's convoluted) with the "Primary states", "Caucus states"….and within the Primary states, 4 different kinds. This all leads me to wonder about the 'quality' of wins vis-a-vis card-carrying Republicans.

One of the primary types is 'closed' which, as I understand it, means only Republican party members can vote. In yesterday's primaries, Trump's two wins were closed primaries. So, getting to the question, what do we deduce from the fact that Trump seems to be doing well with the Republican core?


Edited by ryck (03/06/16 09:35 AM)
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#39306 - 03/06/16 11:01 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
I think the priority at the moment, with which I agree, is ensuring that Trump doesn't win the candidacy before the convention.

If no one has the candidacy going into the convention, does it leave the field open for an entirely new candidate? If so, that could make things really interesting.
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#39307 - 03/06/16 12:28 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
In yesterday's primaries, Trump's two wins were closed primaries. So, getting to the question, what do we deduce from the fact that Trump seems to be doing well with the Republican core?

Trump didn't really win in those states...

Originally Posted By: Google
Kentucky · 46 delegates
Trump won and has 17 delegates, Cruz has 15, Rubio has 7, Kasich has 7
Louisiana · 46 delegates
Trump won and has 18 delegates, Cruz has 18, Rubio has 5

He only tied Cruz vote-wise in LA and barely beat him in KY...apparently the result of their closed primaries.

He is apparently vulnerable in the "closed primary" states, because much of his voter base is people who have heretofore been non-voters who won't be able to just walk in and vote.
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#39308 - 03/06/16 12:29 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
If no one has the candidacy going into the convention, does it leave the field open for an entirely new candidate? If so, that could make things really interesting.

Whole new ball game, because pledged delegates are free to vote their heads after the first (failed) ballot.
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#39309 - 03/06/16 12:47 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
All of that kerfuffle could be beside the point.
As I think has been brought up before in this forum (long ago), the manner of choosing President and Vice-President is laid out in Article II of the Constitution, some of which has been superseded by Amendment XII — to wit, the Electoral College.
There is absolutely no constraint (other than eligibility) on whom the Electoral College can choose to fill those posts, irrespective of any election process, which could be ignored if the members so desired.
As a wholly bizarre example, irrespective of whoever won the popular vote on Election Day in November, the Koch brothers could be so elected (assuming that they fulfilled all eligibility criteria).
Chew on that one for a while. tongue

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#39310 - 03/06/16 01:18 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
All of that kerfuffle could be beside the point.

Although it has never done so, the Electoral College could, indeed, do as you say, but to date there haven't even been a whole lot of instances of individual Electors bolting, let alone an en-masse event.

Depending on who runs, though, this year's election could conceivably inspire a few Electors to bolt and possibly swing a razor thin election.

I'm not ready to think about it yet.

Edit: It didn't even happen in '00, Bush v Gore when only 3 (self?)righteous Electors could have overturned the Supreme Court's decision...but Trump could be a-whole-nother matter.

Faithless Electors


Edited by artie505 (03/06/16 03:10 PM)
Edit Reason: Edit & add link
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#39312 - 03/06/16 02:57 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: honestone
Also, just yesterday, he won 2 more states.

Originally Posted By: Google
Mar 5
Kansas · 40 delegates
Cruz won and has 24 delegates, Trump has 9, Rubio has 6, Kasich has 1
Kentucky · 46 delegates
Trump won and has 17 delegates, Cruz has 15, Rubio has 7, Kasich has 7
Louisiana · 46 delegates
100% reporting · Trump won and has 18 delegates, Cruz has 18, Rubio has 5
Maine · 23 delegates
Cruz won and has 12 delegates, Trump has 9, Kasich has 2

Hmmm... Cruz 69 delegates + >50% in each of the states he won, Trump 53 delegates, but only 35 of 92 in the states he won in.

You need to re-examine your understanding of the word "win".

(And your "excitement" is pretty much all dated.)


First, my "excitement" is not dated. But, your non-excitement is pre-historic!

Second, here is the up to the minute, non-dated Republican delegate count:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/republican_delegate_count.html

Trump leads Cruz by 84 delegates so far. I do agree, though, that Trump has recently been more vulnerable. We'll see as the campaign moves along.

In actuality, Kasich seems to be the most experienced and mature candidate. He has experience in balancing the budget in DC, was very, very effective as Governor of Ohio, and has not stooped to name calling any of the other candidates. Unfortunately, folks are not voting for him much.


Edited by honestone (03/06/16 03:14 PM)
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#39313 - 03/06/16 03:12 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
I think the priority at the moment, with which I agree, is ensuring that Trump doesn't win the candidacy before the convention.

If no one has the candidacy going into the convention, does it leave the field open for an entirely new candidate? If so, that could make things really interesting.


Excellent question, and a real possibility. Even if Rubio wins Florida, it still looks like a 2 man race, Trump and Cruz.

Interestingly, even if Trump (or any candidate) "secures" the necessary 1,237 delegates before the convention starts, it seems there are ways the first ballot could become "aborted":

http://lawnewz.com/important/how-the-gop...y-of-delegates/

If something like that were to happen, I think the Republican Party will then be devastated, as all those Trump supporters would be definitely pissed, and thus a vast majority of them would not vote for the eventual Republican nominee. In fact, such a process basically is selecting a "minority" candidate. I also suspect that if such back door sleazyness occurs, Trump will definitely feel disrespected (and rightly so), and would 1) run as an independent, and 2( of course not support that "minority" candidate.

In instead he does not have the necessary 1,237 delegates by the time the convention begins, then it could be a "rat" race as to who gets nominated. The logical choice would be Kasich (based on what I said above in my prior post), but given he has not secured many delegates (and I suspect, not many more by the time the convention begins), it is doubtful that he would be the nominee.


Edited by honestone (03/06/16 03:13 PM)
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#39314 - 03/06/16 03:18 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: honestone]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: honestone
First, my "excitement" is not dated.

Did you look at the dates of the articles listed in your linked Google page?

Originally Posted By: honestone
But, your non-excitement is pre-historic!

Now what in the hell does that mean? It's not even cute!
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#39315 - 03/06/16 03:38 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: honestone
But, your non-excitement is pre-historic

Now what in the hell does that mean? It's not even cute!


It's the truth, whether you can figure it out or not!

And, your delegate "links"/counts were incomplete. My link above, to the actual delegate count, is definitely not dated. Your "links" are partial stats.


Edited by honestone (03/06/16 03:40 PM)
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#39316 - 03/06/16 03:45 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: honestone]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
This article is a good explanation of what could happen at a "fractured" Republican convention (also mentions things I said above):

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0306-mcmanus-gop-crackup-romney-20160306-column.html

And, another good take on this:

http://observer.com/2016/03/the-dubious-prospects-of-the-stop-trump-movement/


Edited by honestone (03/06/16 03:52 PM)
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#39317 - 03/06/16 05:01 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: honestone]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: honestone
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: honestone
But, your non-excitement is pre-historic

Now what in the hell does that mean? It's not even cute!


It's the truth, whether you can figure it out or not!

As usual, you haven't disappointed me. tongue

Edit: Actually, I didn't link to anything, but the count I posted of Saturday's primaries is the same one shown in your linked doc. wink


Edited by artie505 (03/06/16 05:08 PM)
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#39318 - 03/06/16 07:22 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: honestone
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: honestone
But, your non-excitement is pre-historic

Now what in the hell does that mean? It's not even cute!


It's the truth, whether you can figure it out or not!

As usual, you haven't disappointed me. tongue


I guess the truth hurts, ie, your thinking being prehistoric. Typical for you.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Edit: Actually, I didn't link to anything, but the count I posted of Saturday's primaries is the same one shown in your linked doc. wink


My post showed the entire delegate count, including what happened yesterday. Man, can't you read?
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#39319 - 03/06/16 11:01 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: honestone]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: honestone
I guess the truth hurts, ie, your thinking being prehistoric. Typical for you.

As usual, you haven't disappointed me. tongue

Originally Posted By: honestone
My post showed the entire delegate count, including what happened yesterday.

So what? It was out of context and nothing everybody didn't already know.

I posted Saturday's results in response to your

Quote:
Also, just yesterday, he won 2 more states.

Man, can't you read?

Edit: Saving the Mods the trouble, this line of discussion is closed as far as I'm concerned.


Edited by artie505 (03/06/16 11:50 PM)
_________________________
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#39320 - 03/07/16 12:12 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
It is getting nasty.
Ad hominem arguments serve no useful purpose (other than to give those using them some sort of [dubious] relief), and the perpetrators risk exclusion from the forums (as has happened in past). At the very least the offending thread risks being closed and/or deleted.

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#39322 - 03/07/16 06:23 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Now, getting back to non-flammable discussion ...

Originally Posted By: artie505
Although it has never done so, the Electoral College could, indeed, do as you say, but to date there haven't even been a whole lot of instances of individual Electors bolting, let alone an en-masse event.

Lack of consideration of subverting the "democratic process" via the charter documents of the democracy might well be due to ignorance. I'd venture to say that at least 95% of Americans (and 99.99% of the rest of the world's population) have no clue about the formation of the Electoral College or its mandate and potential powers. One can only dream ....

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#39324 - 03/07/16 12:01 PM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: grelber]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Quote:
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
- Douglas Adams

Though I think that may have been stolen from an earlier one by Mark twain (Samuel Clemens)

Something more along the lines of "Anyone capable of getting themselves elected president is unfit for the position" I think?
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#39330 - 03/08/16 02:38 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: Virtual1]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
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#39331 - 03/08/16 04:38 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
And now, Apple joins the fray.

….along with some other "big money" folks and a few politicians who I find pretty scary…Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, Karl Rove.

It seems to me that this is a perfect example what the American electorate has been saying they want to be rid of - big money and back room deals hijacking the will of the people. Shame on Cook, Page, Musk and Parker.


Edited by ryck (03/08/16 04:43 AM)
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#39332 - 03/08/16 05:45 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: ryck
It seems to me that this is a perfect example what the American electorate has been saying they want to be rid of - big money and back room deals hijacking the will of the people. Shame on Cook, Page, Musk and Parker.

hee hee hee ... smile crazy (As I said [#39269], you get what you pay for.) hee hee hee

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#39334 - 03/08/16 06:04 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: grelber]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: grelber
hee hee hee ... smile crazy (As I said [#39269], you get what you pay for.) hee hee hee

I fail to understand why you think this is funny. One in seven Canadian jobs rely, directly or indirectly, on our $750 billion in trade with Americans. A Trump victory will have a decidedly adverse affect on that trade.

And, as I said before, Canadians don't get to point fingers. We sat back for 10 years while PM Stephen Harper hijacked the will of the people in favour of his friends in business.


Edited by ryck (03/08/16 07:30 AM)
Edit Reason: Data correction
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#39337 - 03/08/16 08:20 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: ryck]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
I find it funny because it's hilarious. Bumbling jackasses and jackals all. (No offense to actual jackasses and jackals, who have their own issues to deal with.)
After the way the Republicans have effed up the democratic process in Washington, they deserve exactly what they get.

Masochist to Sadist: Hit me.
Sadist to Masochist: No.

I stand by my sadomasochistic commentary. tongue
And I can point my finger wherever I please. grin

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#39338 - 03/08/16 08:28 AM Re: Our next president?!! [Re: grelber]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: grelber
I find it funny because it's hilarious.

Originally Posted By: grelber
And I can point my finger wherever I please. grin

Of course you can but it still doesn't mean there's humour in shadenfreude.
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