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#39002 - 02/22/16 12:47 PM Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Anyone else see this? There is no more trash icon either in the swipe or the open view on an email on ilphone 6.
I only see archive, more, and archive now, the red delete has vanished.

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#39003 - 02/22/16 12:51 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
Gmail account?
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#39004 - 02/22/16 01:04 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: MacManiac]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Mac,
Yes, just a couple of weeks ago I had to get a new provider and signed up with Google Apps for my email.

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#39005 - 02/22/16 02:28 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
Yep, Gmail archives instead of deletes.....
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#39010 - 02/22/16 03:35 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: MacManiac]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Mac, are you saying because it's on the G mail server, the normal Mail iphone swipes don't work? So you cannot truly delete? Gmail takes over apples iphone app? Help me get my head around that.

Now paradoxically, on Gmail's iphone app, there is a delete button- trash can symbol on the top.

I don't understand archive in gmail to be honest. I unchecked show archive for imap. If I want something archived, I archive it myself in one of the 100 folders I created to archive my email.

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#39013 - 02/22/16 05:03 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
There was a subtle change a while back (around the introduction of iOS 7) where Gmail defaulted to archiving all deleted mail in order to keep the data for Google analysis of the metrics....at that time, I noticed that my swipe for Gmail only listed Archive as an option but no longer offered Delete.

I thought that was simply the new normal....I was wrong.

Follow THIS LINK for Apple's explanation and directions on how to reset your iPhone preferences to actually reflect YOUR preferences.

Thanks for prodding me to look harder into this as I have now changed MY preferences as well.
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#39014 - 02/22/16 05:25 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: MacManiac]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Mac that for that nice link! Ok, I changed that setting from archive to deleted mailbox, I quit Apple mail on my iphone and relaunched. Yet the red delete button is still not there.

also
"When someone replies to a message you've archived, the email thread including that message will show up again in your inbox."

So this is a tangential 2nd issue, not iphone but desktop: When I reply to messages, from one of my many inner folders, I click send, and, annoyingly, that message now has a copy in my inbox, at the top of the inbox, which then I have to delte, anyway to solve that too?


Edited by kevs (02/22/16 05:29 PM)

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#39016 - 02/22/16 08:20 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
I think you may want to go through the Settings change process one more time....the Advanced setting change as described in the link wasn't totally clear to me on my first two passes, but after looking one more time I was able to get things working as desired....my swipe now yields a red Delete option instead of the orange Archive option that was there before.

As to your desktop Mail challenge, I'm not so certain that I understand how you are setup....perhaps an example of your workflow to clarify?
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#39036 - 02/23/16 01:51 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: MacManiac]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Mac, ok, did it, I have to go back and click "Done", or the checkmark would not save. Strangely this done button is not on the page where you change the checkmark!

I have a couple of other Gmail questions I'd like to ask you if that is ok?

First one: How do you like Gmail vs Apple Mail? I've been an Outlook and Mail person forever, and have never like web based mail. But a friend says I should just use Google's native apps and not bother with Mail at all.

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#39039 - 02/23/16 06:05 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
I just saw a discussion on this very topic as I was researching the archive question...Gmail is a service not a native application. When accessing the service to get your mail or send mail you are either using a mail application (such as Mail or Outlook) or you are using a browser over the internet (such as Safari or Firefox or Chrome).

I personally detest the web-based interface for any email service. I find it to be cumbersome and restrictive to my personal work-flow pattern. Accessing Apple mail (.mac) or Gmail (.gmail) or even my ISP's email service has always been easier for me using the Mail client application on my MacBook Pro and the Mail app that comes with iOS. I feel pretty much the same way about using Outlook, having never felt the need to install it on any of my Mac's and only grudgingly using it on the various corporate (Windows) machines that I've been forced to use over the years.

I don't think that I would find your friend's advice helpful....but that doesn't make him wrong.
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#39040 - 02/23/16 07:11 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: MacManiac]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Ok Mac, I hear you, but he has a point. When you use a Mail app, you are loading up a 2nd layer of instability. When you use the servers web app, that's it, it's rock solid, because that is the real app. Mail, and Outlook are covers or nice dresses over that right?

So your mail is also on the Gmail servers correct? If so, I have a few interesting follow up questions about Mail and Gmail.

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#39041 - 02/23/16 08:59 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
As I view it, the client application that runs natively on YOUR computer (or smart phone) is performing the same function as the web interface written to allow access via a browser application running natively on your computer (or smart phone) to the data that is being served....both are software tools to send and retrieve data from a remote computer that hosts the data and which runs the software installed on it natively.

When your friend is proclaiming that the Gmail native application is superior to a client running natively on your computer, he is actually trying to say that the web interface that Gmail provides is superior....and to that I disagree.

Whether you view the email data via a browser or a dedicated client, the remote computer remains a service, NOT a native application.

As far as introducing a second layer of instability to the email process, it's been my personal experience that the web interface via browser has created far more challenges to me over the years than any I've experienced by using dedicated email client software on my computer.

It seems that we've migrated the topic away from your initial troubleshooting question....perhaps we could continue the new discussion, since it is no longer a troubleshooting issue, in the Lounge.
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#39047 - 02/24/16 08:06 AM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: MacManiac]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Mac, here is overview: for 15 years I have the email hosted by a website provider, and I've used Entourage, Outlook and now Mail. So I'm very used to clients like you are.

My website host decided to get out of the email business and recommended everyone switch to Google Apps. Only thing is Google has even more bugs with Mail that their old provider did!

One friend says change from Google to another company which he recommended to me Fast Mail. Another friend says, just stay with Google and use their web interface. I guess what you are saying is that their web interface is not really the "true" app. He finds the web app fine.

The True app does not exists is what you are saying correct?

The mail is on severs so even their web interface is just another clothing for mail? But I have to say, if you use their site, there are no hiccups, it goes from there server to their app. What would you recommend I do? I don't have a lot of stomach to do another migration, but you are with Google servers for your mail, and you use Apple Mail and do ok?

Here is another big one since I got with Google: I reply to an email, and Google put a copy of that reply in my inbox which is really annoying. Have you seen that?

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#39049 - 02/24/16 10:30 AM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
I've been using Gmail for many years now and almost exclusively through the native Macintosh and iOS client software, Mail....always configured for IMAP....rarely accessed by web interface using a browser....never with the duplicate inbox issue for sent mail that you are experiencing.

(Your duplicate issue may be a miscue in the default preference settings....)

In the rare times that I've been forced to use the web interface for access to read or send an email, I have seen VERY different results between differing browsers (mostly on Windows public shared use computers because I had no available internet access using my own computer).

When accessing Gmail from my own computer (and iPhone) using the native client I have seen very little interference or issue.....in other words, "it just works" seems to be applicable in my experience.

All in all, a brief search of the App Store yielded no real solid third party candidates to replace Mail as the native mail client on my machine....all reviews that I saw included that level of instability you expressed concern with earlier.
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Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.

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#39053 - 02/24/16 11:28 AM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: MacManiac]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Mac, so Gmail is your server, and you use Mail...

And mostly you use your iphone to check mail?

Do you know where the setting is to check the duplicate inbox issue?

Actually I find the Gmail app for the ihpone is about as good as the Mail app for iphone.

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#39055 - 02/24/16 11:41 AM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
Yes, Gmail is one of the three email accounts that I use on both the Mac and iPhone....and all are accessed using the native client that comes with the OS.

Reading the reviews on the third party email clients left me with the impression that there is a good possibility that an OS update can introduce issues with them...in other words, there can be a period where they work well, then have problems following a system update because they aren't being developed with immediate access to the same resources as the native Apple client(s).
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Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.

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#39057 - 02/24/16 11:43 AM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: MacManiac]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Mac, any idea where I go for that copying to inbox issue?

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#39059 - 02/24/16 12:16 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
Run a test case email through Mail on the Macintosh to get me a full description of the issue.....my understanding of it from our discussion to-date is still murky.

I'm leaning toward the advanced Mailbox behaviors as being an area to look, but your test email will give me a better idea.
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Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.

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#39067 - 02/24/16 04:01 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: MacManiac]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Mac, this is very simple:

When I reply to an email. Lets say I'm replying to an email in my MISC folder. Suddenly that email reply is in the inbox (a copy of).

PS, from before, so what you are saying is that Gmail interface is just another app? I still see it as the core interface as it's pulling right from the G mail server, whereas Mail and all other clients are having to communicate with Google, while Gmail is Google. There will be no issues like this one, and many others using the Gmail web interface. None.

That said, it is VERY hard to get used the the Gmail web interface, but a friend of mine thinks it's perfect, and one could adjust.. so we'll see...


Edited by kevs (02/24/16 04:04 PM)

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#39070 - 02/24/16 06:27 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
So confirm for me that this behavior is happening when you are in the web-based interface through your browser???...or is this happening when you access your Gmail using the native application on your Macintosh (i.e., Mail)???

If what you are seeing is happening when using the web-based browser access, then it is the way the web app is designed and you probably can't change it.....if it is happening when you are using the Mail client application, then there is probably a preference setting you can adjust.
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Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.

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#39071 - 02/24/16 06:58 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: MacManiac]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
No, all problems are with Apple Mail and it's hiccups with Gmail. There are never stability issues with Gmail on the browser, that is the whole point of everything I'm writing about.

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#39073 - 02/24/16 07:29 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
I think that what you may be describing is the threaded view of your reply and the source email that you responded to????

I just sent a message to myself from one account to another, then forwarded that same exchange on to myself at my third account....and got the threaded view where each email shows in the same window (in my Inbox) one above the other in time sequence.....and at the bottom of each is the "See more from __________" clickable link to expand the view to show your prior sent message text as well.

If what you are seeing differs from that then it's a mystery to me at this point.

I am researching this using Mail v9.2 under OS X 10.11.3 El Capitan....which version(s) are you using?

The option to view your emails as a thread or conversation is found under the View pull-down menu....if "Organize by Conversation" is checked, try unchecking it and see if that returns the behavior to your expectation.

(edited to add info on the "Organize by Conversation" option....


Edited by MacManiac (02/24/16 07:36 PM)
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#39077 - 02/24/16 08:50 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: MacManiac]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
I'm on most recent versions El Capitan.

Do this: In Mail oh desktop or laptop, go to a folder that is not the inbox. Send a message to yourself. Is that message now in your inbox —a copy of it?

That is what is happening that never happened before my server was Gmail.

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#39084 - 02/25/16 10:14 AM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
I did just what you described and the message was received in my In Box, the original message that was sent by me to me; and I am not using Gmail.
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On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#39091 - 02/25/16 03:21 PM Re: Swipe to the Left delete Vanished from iphone 6 [Re: kevs]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
OK, gave your described process a try....found an email in one of my smart folders on the Mac, drafted a reply and sent it on its' way back to the originator.....NO spurious copy of said outgoing message appeared in my Inbox, just in the Sent box (as expected for normal handling).

When I then Forwarded that message from my .mac Sent folder to my .gmail account, I received it in my Inbox as expected AND got an additional copy of the same email in threaded format in my Gmail's Archive folder.....this behavior is normal for Gmail as it retains an Archive copy of EVERYTHING.

I looked through the Mail preferences and View options to see if there might be a setting that would create the same symptoms as you are experiencing, but didn't see anything that looked like it was even close.

This is sounding more and more like it may be a Gmail-specific issue with your account....have you looked through the forums/FAQ's at Google to see if there might be any similar issues already on-file or resolved?
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