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#38975 - 02/20/16 02:07 PM Super Price for TechTool Pro!
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
As most folks know, I am a huge "fan" of TechTool Pro, using it every week as part of my disk cleanup/maintenance/backup processing (in fact, I just completed doing that for both of my machines). It is definitely a useful, rock solid product.

Well, when I just visited the site www.macnn.com, I saw this:

https://deals.macnn.com/sales/techtool-pro-8

That is definitely a super price! So, if you are in the market and/or need a more robust disk maintenance/repair program beyond Disk Utility, this could be the time to buy it.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
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#38976 - 02/20/16 02:55 PM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: honestone]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Good price indeed. BUT... if you’re going for deals, you should know that TTP is fairly regularly offered at an even greater discount as part of a bundle. A recent one was the name-your-own-price ‘MacHeist Hall of Fame Bundle’ last November. With it, you could have had TTP 8 for as little as $20, in addition to A Better Finder Rename, PopChar X, GraphicConverter, Snood Plus, SuperCard Suite, NisusWriter Pro, and Freeway Pro, to name just a few other apps in that particular bundle. tongue

That said, on the other side of the aisle are those who consider utilities like TTP less important now than in times past. But that’s an entirely different topic. cool
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#38980 - 02/21/16 06:30 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: alternaut]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: alternaut
Good price indeed. BUT... if you’re going for deals, you should know that TTP is fairly regularly offered at an even greater discount as part of a bundle. A recent one was the name-your-own-price ‘MacHeist Hall of Fame Bundle’ last November. With it, you could have had TTP 8 for as little as $20, in addition to A Better Finder Rename, PopChar X, GraphicConverter, Snood Plus, SuperCard Suite, NisusWriter Pro, and Freeway Pro, to name just a few other apps in that particular bundle. tongue

That said, on the other side of the aisle are those who consider utilities like TTP less important now than in times past. But that’s an entirely different topic. cool


Yes, one could wait until November to possibly see such a bundled price. But then one is risking not having one of the best disk maintenance/repair programs available to help out.

As for it being less important, if either one takes excellent, excellent care of their machines, or does not care about such issues and just replaces either their Mac or the drive, then yes, there is no need for such a product. That's not for me.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#38982 - 02/21/16 09:28 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: honestone]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
FWIW, the price listed is the same as that offered for the upgrade path from an earlier version.....
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#38983 - 02/21/16 09:41 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: MacManiac]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: MacManiac
FWIW, the price listed is the same as that offered for the upgrade path from an earlier version.....


I don't mind paying for an upgrade, as 1) it does not happen very often, and 2) TechTool Pro has proven to be an excellent product. While I do not have many issues with either of my Macs, nor with either of my external drives, I still use it to continually maintain my drives (SSDs for the Macs themselves).

In any event, even though that may be the same price as it costs for a current TechTool Pro to upgrade, it's definitely an excellent price for someone that needs to make a new purchase. And of course, it just makes sense for a current user to upgrade, and especially if one is using El Capitan.


Edited by honestone (02/21/16 09:42 AM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#39000 - 02/22/16 10:31 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: honestone]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: honestone
As for it being less important, if either one takes excellent, excellent care of their machines, or does not care about such issues and just replaces either their Mac or the drive, then yes, there is no need for such a product. That's not for me.

The issue is not whether one is a ‘responsible’ computer owner by the exclusive virtue of running any or all system utilities one can bring to bear, but whether such behavior is necessary. It can be argued that over the years the changes/improvements in Mac OS X have markedly reduced the need to apply such utilities, as exemplified by the many users who worked their way through the lifespan of successive Macs without ever running into a problem that required the ministrations of a 3rd party utility. In this scenario, the utilities monitor things just fine, but rarely if ever have to actually do anything. I would make an exception for the preventive value of things like SMART monitoring, but that particular option isn’t without its foibles either. And having ample backups renders the occasional hardware hiccup moot anyway.
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#39001 - 02/22/16 11:42 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: alternaut]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: alternaut
Originally Posted By: honestone
As for it being less important, if either one takes excellent, excellent care of their machines, or does not care about such issues and just replaces either their Mac or the drive, then yes, there is no need for such a product. That's not for me.

The issue is not whether one is a ‘responsible’ computer owner by the exclusive virtue of running any or all system utilities one can bring to bear, but whether such behavior is necessary. It can be argued that over the years the changes/improvements in Mac OS X have markedly reduced the need to apply such utilities, as exemplified by the many users who worked their way through the lifespan of successive Macs without ever running into a problem that required the ministrations of a 3rd party utility. In this scenario, the utilities monitor things just fine, but rarely if ever have to actually do anything. I would make an exception for the preventive value of things like SMART monitoring, but that particular option isn’t without its foibles either. And having ample backups renders the occasional hardware hiccup moot anyway.


Part of that depends on how dedicated the individual is to keeping things in good to excellent order with their machines. Also, it is a mistake to think that the improvements in the OS will minimize/alleviate the need for products such as TechTool Pro and/or Disk Warrior. Case in point: I own a 2013 Toyota Camry. Like Macs, they are built rock solid, with continuing improvements on that reputation. But, I am definitely not going to only reply on the technology of that vehicle to keep things running smoothly. That would be foolish. Just like with my Macs, I am proactive in doing some things for the vehicle that go beyond what the maintenance schedule says. Three simple and cost effective things are 1) changing the Cabin Air Filter myself, 2) changing the Air Filter myself, and 3) checking tire pressure myself. Sure, for #1 and #2, there are mileage milestones associated with each of those, and for #3, the particular model I own has a feature that lets me know when tire pressure is low. But, I would much rather get in front of such simple things myself.

So, similarly with my Macs, I use products like Onyx and TechTool Pro to do things beyond what the OS can do. And regarding backups, I first go through my disk maintenance/cleanup/repair routines, and then do my backups. That insures the backups are lean and clean. Another case in point is the recent "debacle" I encountered while booting to Safe Mode on my Mac MIni (running OS 10.11.3). Issues arose from that event which the OS could not resolve. But, Onyx came to the rescue and resolved the issues in an effective, conclusive manner.

What it comes down to is a matter of choice. Like other things, one can solely rely on technology to cure issues, or one can be proactive and do some additional, useful, proven tasks on their own to augment what technology does. Myself, I take that latter approach, and am glad I do. As it is, I have been following such practices for so, so long (even when I had my Apple IIE, Apple IIGS, and all the prior Macs I have owned) that is part of my DNA.

Finally, so many individuals in society want to use as many short cuts as they can, no matter how potentially harmful they are (without taking precautions). Yes, my disk cleanup/maintenance/repair and backup tasks do take time, but I always do it while I am doing other, productive, non-computer tasks, and thus I am not waisting time. It seems like the concept of multi-tasking is missing these days.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#39021 - 02/23/16 05:50 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: alternaut
It can be argued that over the years the changes/improvements in Mac OS X have markedly reduced the need to apply such utilities, as exemplified by the many users who worked their way through the lifespan of successive Macs without ever running into a problem that required the ministrations of a 3rd party utility.

And as further exemplified by Micromat and Alsoft, themselves, apparently having recognized that the value of their products is diminishing, because they've both expanded on the basic, critical functionality that carried them and the Mac community for years and turned TechTool Pro and DiskWarrior into Swiss Army Knives of sorts, arguably to maintain relevance.

And let's not forget that as the Mac platform expands it's reaching new users, many, perhaps most, of whom will likely never be aware that utilities such as TechTool Pro and Disk Warrior even exist, because OS X will likely never leave them in a bind that calls for either; the concept of regular maintenance will be alien to them, because it will not have a context in their Mac experience, nor will their Mac experience suffer from its lack.

Me, I'm joining the new user contingent in a sense and not upgrading either TTP or DW until I must, and that may be several paid upgrades from now. (The availability of both utilities via d/l rather than snail mail as was once the case makes that position even more tenable: as long as you've got a bootable volume you can get the latest version of either utility within minutes of your needing it.)
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In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#39022 - 02/23/16 06:20 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: artie505
Me, I'm joining the new user contingent in a sense and not upgrading either TTP or DW until I must, and that may be several paid upgrades from now. (The availability of both utilities via d/l rather than snail mail as was once the case makes that position even more tenable: as long as you've got a bootable volume you can get the latest version of either utility within minutes of your needing it.)
The problem is that you may not be able to access those apps if your data are so damaged that normal operations are impossible.

That said, I have noticed that Disk Warrior rarely finds anything amiss after Leopard. Snowy was very, very stable, and El Cap is at least its equal (as was Yosemite) in that regard. I run DW once in awhile for kicks. I never used Lion, Mountain Lion, or Mavericks so I can't comment about them.


Edited by jchuzi (02/23/16 06:24 AM)
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OS 10.14.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#39023 - 02/23/16 07:06 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: jchuzi]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Originally Posted By: artie505
Me, I'm joining the new user contingent in a sense and not upgrading either TTP or DW until I must, and that may be several paid upgrades from now. (The availability of both utilities via d/l rather than snail mail as was once the case makes that position even more tenable: as long as you've got a bootable volume you can get the latest version of either utility within minutes of your needing it.)
The problem is that you may not be able to access those apps if your data are so damaged that normal operations are impossible.

That said, I have noticed that Disk Warrior rarely finds anything amiss after Leopard. Snowy was very, very stable, and El Cap is at least its equal (as was Yosemite) in that regard. I run DW once in awhile for kicks. I never used Lion, Mountain Lion, or Mavericks so I can't comment about them.


I have been upgrading TechTool Pro ever since I first purchased it, and that of course is/was a wise move, given that I use it on a regular basis. And I have used it through all the "intervening" OS versions that jchuzi mentioned. As I stated earlier, believing that the Mac OS is going to keep things "lean, mean, and clean" is asking for trouble. If one wants to remain in reactive mode when trouble arises, that's their choice. I am staying with the crowd that is proactive, and thus staying in front of any potential issues. I practice that same philosophy in other aspects of life, not just with computers and technology. And, of course, it fits perfectly with my KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple Stupid.

As for the possible inability to access such apps due to data being so damaged, that is precisely one reason why using tools such as TechTool Pro, Disk Warrior, and Onyx goes a long, long way towards minimizing and/or eliminating such a catastrophic event (and other problems too). And, of course, having a recent, clean backup is definitely prudent.

Nope, I'm remaining with the proactive crowd, and I'm not going to stick my head in the sand like the proverbial ostrich and hope for the best. I'm going to be in front of such issues as much as possible. And, that applies to just about anything I do.

Regarding these tools not finding anything amiss, yes, in most instances, that is what I am also seeing. But, the times when I have needed assistance from such tools have been life savers. And, in 99% of those cases, the "fix" was not difficult at all. The OS was useless in trying to resolve the issue. About the only times such tools (and anything else) could not help was 1) when one of my hard drives could not be repaired at all, and 2) when the motherboard on my vintage 2006 MacPro "died". In both issues, it was not due to any mismanagement, nor reliance on the OS. On the contrary, both products had been in use for quite some time. The hard drive issue was due to normal wear and tear, as it died after about 6 years of use. Not sure why the motherboard died in the MacPro, but the machine became a dinosaur anyway with the advent of one of the "newer" versions of the Mac OS (can't remember exactly which one). But, I did get a lot of trouble free, productive use out of both devices, and using tools like Onyx and TechTool Pro (along with my other proactive tasks) went a long, long way in keeping things "lean, clean, and mean".


Edited by honestone (02/23/16 07:09 AM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#39024 - 02/23/16 07:11 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: honestone]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I agree with you, honestone. My 2007 Mac Pro became a dinosaur when the maximum OS that it could use was Lion (10.7). I resisted upgrading until two things happened:

1. Apple discontinued support for Snow Leopard (the app that I was using) and I wanted the extra security features.
2. I turned 70 and wanted a suitable birthday present for a BIG milestone. I reasoned that I would turn 70 only once, but that's true for every other birthday! grin
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#39028 - 02/23/16 08:15 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: jchuzi]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
I agree with you, honestone. My 2007 Mac Pro became a dinosaur when the maximum OS that it could use was Lion (10.7). I resisted upgrading until two things happened:

1. Apple discontinued support for Snow Leopard (the app that I was using) and I wanted the extra security features.
2. I turned 70 and wanted a suitable birthday present for a BIG milestone. I reasoned that I would turn 70 only once, but that's true for every other birthday! grin


Yeah, I really liked my 2006 MacPro. There were some "hacks" running around the internet to try and get it to run Mountain Lion, including replacing some hard ware inside the machine. But, I did not want to go through all that, and the number of folks having success doing such hacks/upgrades was not overwhelming.

It's too bad, because the machine itself was still functioning, until I had that issue with the motherboard. So, in mid 2013, I purchased my late 2012 model Core i7 Mac Mini. I was able to use my 19" Sony Monitor, Apple keyboard, and Logitech mouse with the mini (still have the monitor), along with salvaging the DVD drive (now in an external case connected to my Mac Mini, although I do not use it much). I did replace the slow, 1 TB 5400 rpm internal hard drive inside the mini with a fast, 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD. That internal 1 TB is inside a nice, slim external case, and I take it with me whenever we travel, to use with my MacBook Air.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#39029 - 02/23/16 08:16 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: honestone]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
As much as I agree with the sentiments on both sides of this issue, I decided to participate in the upgrade offer and discovered that it was able to repair permissions on my El Capitan installation.....a function that wasn't offered by the version of Disk Utility that comes with El Cap.

I'm fairly certain that the long list of permissions requiring repair was the result of many years accumulated OS updates and not the result of anything recent....that legacy accumulation of potential issues is now resolved.

FWIW, there were no indications of issue or distress prior to running TTP8's permission repair function.

(So as far as I can tell, it could be very much like keeping a big stick near the front door to keep elephants out of the yard....haven't seen a single elephant since I started keeping the stick at the ready!!)

(edited to add the elephant analogy...)


Edited by MacManiac (02/23/16 08:19 AM)
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#39031 - 02/23/16 09:47 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: MacManiac]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: MacManiac
As much as I agree with the sentiments on both sides of this issue, I decided to participate in the upgrade offer and discovered that it was able to repair permissions on my El Capitan installation.....a function that wasn't offered by the version of Disk Utility that comes with El Cap.

I'm fairly certain that the long list of permissions requiring repair was the result of many years accumulated OS updates and not the result of anything recent....that legacy accumulation of potential issues is now resolved.

FWIW, there were no indications of issue or distress prior to running TTP8's permission repair function.

(So as far as I can tell, it could be very much like keeping a big stick near the front door to keep elephants out of the yard....haven't seen a single elephant since I started keeping the stick at the ready!!)

(edited to add the elephant analogy...)


I've actually always used Onyx to Repair Permissions. Yes, it is available in TechTool Pro, but when I perform my disk cleanup/maintenance/repair, and backup, tasks for each of my machines, the order of that is:

1. Use a Microsoft-provided "method" of permanently deleting EMails that I have deleted in Outlook (my EMail client) since my last maintenance (usually one week ago).

2. Run Onyx to Repair Permissions, and perform a number of its other, useful tasks.

3. Run TechTool Pro to perform a number of its useful tasks. That includes, in the following order: Memory Test, SMART Check, Video Memory, Fans Test, Sensors Test, (for my MacBook Air, Battery Check), Surface Scan (takes the longest of any task, but given my SSDs are only 256 gig, only about 25 minutes), Volume Rebuild, and File Optimization (I assume most folks know that Volume Optimization is both strongly advised against, and not necessary, for SSDs). I do all that, of course, from the eDrive partition TechTool Pro "makes" on each of my SSDs.

4. Run SuperDuper! to back up each machine to their applicable partition on each of my external drives (I have two of them).

All of that does not include any daily disk cleanup that I do on my own (exclusive of "deleting" EMails).

I actually have another program called "SMART Utility" that I run once in a while. I wonder which SMART "test" is more accurate. I just ran it, and for my 256 Samsung 840 Pro SSD inside my Mac Mini, it shows a CRC Error Count of 881. But, it also says: "Overall SMART Status: PASSED (in green)". TechTool Pro's SMART check shows error counts also, and in fact breaks them down into various categories. It also says PASSED for the SMART status.

For your "elephant" analogy, just last week Onyx came to the rescue with an issue I had booting my Mac Mini into Safe Mode (trying to go along with a request from another user). The OS could not resolve it all.

So, I am still going to be proactive in continuing to do what I have been doing, and using my "weapons" to keep all monsters at bay, so to speak.


Edited by honestone (02/23/16 03:41 PM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#39043 - 02/24/16 01:29 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Originally Posted By: artie505
The availability of both utilities via d/l rather than snail mail as was once the case makes [my] position even more tenable: as long as [I've] got a bootable volume [I[ can get the latest version of either utility within minutes of [my] needing it. (Emphasis added))

The problem is that you may not be able to access those apps if your data are so damaged that normal operations are impossible.

Clarifying my point, Jon, I'm good to go as long as I've got an uncorrupted clone and my deuced Mac(hina) can boot. And if all my clones are corrupted, well...shame on me for having been dumb enough to have allowed it to happen, and if my Mac can't boot, well...the apps under discussion will all be worthless under any circumstances.

I've used the term paranoia-ware before, and I stand pat on it.

I once considered utilities such as TechTool Pro and DiskWarrior to be necessities...to have on hand, up to date and ready to do my bidding, but I now consider them to be no more than readily available resources to be upgraded only if it becomes necessary.

I'm not gonna try to convince anybody that "They just work" has come to 100% fruition, but I think I'm on pretty solid ground not treating OS X as if it's likely to not work.

And finally, like beauty, simplicity is in the eyes of the beholder.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#39046 - 02/24/16 07:56 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: artie505]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Every new version of the Mac OS supposedly is better than the last one in terms of keeping things "mean and clean". Similarly, every new model of a Toyota Camry supposedly is better and better for reliability, and minimizing issues. But, to believe either is not subject to "breaking down" is definitely a short sighted approach. It's fine to think that both products will likely work, but it is wise to provide assistance in that effort.

I have always believed in being proactive, and I continue to stand by that. I am not going to hide my head in the sand and hope things work as they are. I've encountered way too many instances where just the opposite is true, and by being proactive and getting WAY in front of issues has always proven to be extremely beneficial.

For things like appliances, automobiles, and similar technologies, there is typically recommended maintenance tips that one can easily perform on their own. To think that does not apply to computer technology, whether it be hardware or software, is a mistake, at least in my way of thinking. The quote I firmly believe in, "Go along and we'll get along", is certainly applicable to that. I know that is the case for automobiles, in terms to doing some simple things on my own.

Finally, there is of course the very pertinent KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple Stupid. The word "Simple" in that statement seems to get lost with some folks. If that's the way such folks want to proceed, fine. It's just not for me, nor will it ever be.


Edited by honestone (02/24/16 08:02 AM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#39050 - 02/24/16 10:34 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: honestone]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
Alright guys, let's watch the veiled references to one another here....I'm not gonna watch another escalation happen without intervening early.

This is called proactive moderation.
_________________________
Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.

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#39051 - 02/24/16 11:19 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: MacManiac]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: MacManiac
Alright guys, let's watch the veiled references to one another here....I'm not gonna watch another escalation happen without intervening early.

This is called proactive moderation.


Understand, MM. Not sure why that other poster had to start those "veiled" references, as the discussion was proceeding very smoothly and cordially. At least that is what I was trying to do prior to that last post I made above, which of course was a legitimate response (I still made on topic points). As long as folks stay on topic in a mature, responsible way, without such "veiled references", things will be good.

And, by following such practices, that shows proactive maturity and proactive behavior. Thus, "Go along, and we'll get along".


Edited by honestone (02/24/16 11:20 AM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#39052 - 02/24/16 11:27 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: honestone]
cyn Online

Administrator

Registered: 08/03/09
Honestone, AFAIC your ongoing posting of the KISS philosophy and favorite movie quotes are in fact continued sniping. We'd let you slide when you had them only in your signature but when you go back to using them in your posts too...well, it's one too many times over the line for me. So, I've removed the KISS philosophy and quotes from your signature, and they need to stay gone from both your sig and your posts.
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#39054 - 02/24/16 11:32 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: honestone]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
This was an equal opportunity caution....and applies to both of you with the same level of intent.

My point to both of you is simply this....accept that there can be more than one position on this topic, and both can be equally valid.

Last time I moderate gently.

Cyn, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU BEAT ME TO THE PUNCH!!!

(edited to acknowledge our Admin's intervention as well...)


Edited by MacManiac (02/24/16 11:35 AM)
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#39056 - 02/24/16 11:43 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: honestone]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Getting back on topic, I have a few more examples of trying to rely on technology as a solution to issues, problems, etc.

The first obvious one (and it is kind of connected to the others I will mention) is the inability of folks to handle a cash payment! It is truly incredible how some (maybe quite a few folks( get flustered when one pays cash for a product, service, etc. If one pays by credit/debit card, or even check, the clerk has no issues in handling that. But try paying with cash, and a number of them get lost!

The next two have to do with my experience as a part-time Mathematics instructor. I had been doing that on and off since 1970 at various colleges and universities. I have taught Mathematics course ranging from Elementary Algebra to Linear Algebra and Differential Equations. My most recent time was at a couple of community colleges from 2007 through 2011. During that most recent time frame, it certainly became evident that students absolutely rely on technology to assist with, and solve problems. And the "tool" such students just about bet their life on was a calculator.

This first one really shows this. In the spring of 2010, I was teaching an Elementary Algebra class, and I had office yours for students to come in. One of my students did come in, and was having difficulty solving a problem. So, I started going through it with her, and it got down to computing 32 - 17. So, I asked her what that is. She says, "Is it 22?". I said, "No". She then says "Is it 9?". I said, "No.". I then said, "What is the problem?". She says "I use my calculator to do something like that"! I was shocked (she did kind of make a face as it she was embarrassed). I thought to myself "And these are our future leaders?".

The other one was while I was teaching a Business Calculus class, and there was some discussion about the use of calculators (I did not allow the use of calculators on any exam I gave, and for most of the questions, a calculator was useless). I said to the class that one's brain is the best calculator one can have, as it never runs out of batteries (certainly a valid statement). I also said that what would you do if your calculator ran out of batteries, and you need to compute something. One of my students said "I would take out a piece of paper and a pencil". That actually was quite good, as at least one student was willing to apply what they had previously learned. But, I suspect she was in the minority.

The last one is so, so simple, yet baffling! I actually have run into folks who could not figure out (without a calculator) what a 10% sale means in terms of cost! I actually told an Asian woman I know about that (she was not born in the US, and her English is not perfect), and even she said that is something so simple. I could not agree more.

I am willing to bet there are so, so many examples of what I mentioned above, but the point is that relying on technology to resolve all one's issues is a false approach.


Edited by honestone (02/24/16 11:46 AM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
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#39058 - 02/24/16 11:45 AM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: cyn]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: cyn
Honestone, AFAIC your ongoing posting of the KISS philosophy and favorite movie quotes are in fact continued sniping. We'd let you slide when you had them only in your signature but when you go back to using them in your posts too...well, it's one too many times over the line for me. So, I've removed the KISS philosophy and quotes from your signature, and they need to stay gone from both your sig and your posts.


I of course do not agree with you, but if you are going to impose that on me, then you need to do it on others also. Fair and balanced is something I hope is practiced around here.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

Top
#39060 - 02/24/16 12:27 PM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: honestone]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
I think we've drifted completely off the original topic here at this point....any relationship to actual troubleshooting in this thread would have to be researched waaaay back toward the beginning.

There are two options that I see for us now:

1) Close and lock the thread....leaving an unfulfilled void (and less than suitable outcome).

2) Move and re-title the thread to the Lounge where we can continue the discussion on whether or not we need third party utilities to maintain the Mac OS in its' modern form.

I'm willing to wait for input.
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#39061 - 02/24/16 12:32 PM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: MacManiac]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: MacManiac
I think we've drifted completely off the original topic here at this point....any relationship to actual troubleshooting in this thread would have to be researched waaaay back toward the beginning.

There are two options that I see for us now:

1) Close and lock the thread....leaving an unfulfilled void (and less than suitable outcome).

2) Move and re-title the thread to the Lounge where we can continue the discussion on whether or not we need third party utilities to maintain the Mac OS in its' modern form.

I'm willing to wait for input.


Since I began the thread, I assume my "vote" is the most relevant. I say let's just close it. It has been "beaten to death", so to speak, and there is no point in trying to come to any kind of resolution, especially with all the unnecessary "veiled" references that have been made.

The "arguments" folks have made are still the same ones I have seen on other sites and in other forums. One site even had a few folks saying that SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner are not examples of backup software, but instead are just cloning programs! And such discussions were via the site www.macnn.com, and on other places there, such software was classified as backup software! Go figure.

I will, of course, still post any positive experiences I have with any of the products I use, and also will post information about sales (like I started this thread with) of products.

So, let's just close it.


Edited by honestone (02/24/16 12:45 PM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

Top
#39062 - 02/24/16 12:47 PM Re: Super Price for TechTool Pro! [Re: honestone]
MacManiac Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
OK, that's one input.....for the benefit of all the others who participate here, I will wait for more input.

I personally see quite a large value in how this can play out. The Apple infrastructure and OS X maturation have truly limited the immediate need for many of the old standby utilities that most of us maintained "just in case"....and "just in case" used to happen a whole lot more often than it seems to today.

Looking at your weekly maintenance work-flow, I'm struck by how similar it is to what mine USED to be....since about the advent of Lion (10.7) and subsequent OS upgrades, I've not needed to intervene in the smooth working of my installed-base on any of the several different platforms I run. Up through Snow Leopard (10.6.8) I was much more likely to employ at least one or two of my various maintenance utilities fairly regularly.

I'm interested to see if my experience in this respect is valid or isolated....
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