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#33427 - 03/13/15 01:16 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: JM Hanes]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: JM Hanes
….I think we may be saving, not losing, way too much stuff.

You're right on the money. Once in a while I go through my digital files and clean out all the stuff I stashed "to be read later when I have a moment" and often wonder why I saved it in the first place.
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#33428 - 03/13/15 01:55 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Have you ever seen The Tampa Story, in which "John D. Hackensacker", as he's writing down every penny he's spending in a little notebook, says to Claudette Colbert's character "I don't know why I write this all down; I never do anything with it."

I periodically use that scene as the springboard to a cleaning frenzy. smile
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#33429 - 03/13/15 02:28 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
I haven't seen the movie but that line is as fitting as it is humorous.

The ease and near absence of cost in saving digital files discourages any thinking about the process. One analogy is film versus digital picture taking. When you had to pay for the printing, you were a little less likely to decide that every shot was a work of art worthy of posterity.
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ryck

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#33430 - 03/13/15 02:59 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
One analogy is film versus digital picture taking. When you had to pay for the printing, you were a little less likely to decide that every shot was a work of art worthy of posterity.

If I were to teach a course in photography, the final exam would be conducted with a reflex camera and a roll of black & white film.
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#33434 - 03/13/15 05:10 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: JM Hanes]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: JM Hanes
You don't even have to be a super pro to get shots like Bann's. Here's night shot that I took with my new Canon EOS 6D, looking out of a hotel window in NYC at 3:00 AM.

404 frown
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#33435 - 03/13/15 06:57 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
If I were to teach a course in photography, the final exam would be conducted with a reflex camera and a roll of black & white film.

Which underlines the other thing that film shooters did to minimize waste. Without being immediately able to see the result they took great pains in the composition, f stops, shutter speeds, et cetera to ensure the best outcome.

I once read that, when Alfred Stieglitz took up photography, he only shot a white cup and saucer, again and again, for the first nine months. That way he had a good grasp of what his camera was going to deliver, whatever the lighting or circumstance.


Edited by ryck (03/13/15 03:02 PM)
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#33490 - 03/20/15 08:58 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: tacit]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Tacit: I was interested that you mentioned the Long Now Project -- Brian Eno, the Long Now's, conceptual father, made one of the most insightful comments about politics ever:
Quote:
The central problem of politics: Do you paint simplistic pictures that make people act (and leave them with too simplistic a view of the world) or do you paint baffingly shaded and contingent scenes that leave people paralyzed by indecision?

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#33491 - 03/20/15 09:01 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: artie505]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Hopefully this Night Shot do-over will work!

I wanted to link the full-size photo directly, but alas, I'm still struggling with the various public/private settings on my SmugMug site.

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#33492 - 03/20/15 09:45 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
If I were to teach a course in photography, the final exam would be conducted with a reflex camera and a roll of black & white film.

My son just completed a university level course in photography. It broke down roughly 40% picture taking (composition, etc.) and 60% Photoshopping the raw image. The remaining camera store in the town where the university is located (population ~380,000) no longer carries offers film processing or carries any film cameras, processing equipment, or supplies. According to the store owner he sent all of that back after it had been on his shelves for nearly two years without any sales. The biggest camera store in Fort Worth, the 17 largest city in the country, will order film cameras but does not stock them.
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#33493 - 03/20/15 10:50 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: joemikeb]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
Can anyone comment on film restoration, deterioration, or specifically why box sets of TV shows and movies sometimes look like crap?

If I buy a season of an old TV show, I don't always know what I'm getting. Last week I bought season one of The Drew Carey Show, the only season out on DVD, and I was surprised at the mediocre quality. Not terrible, but not what I had hoped. I guess the studio didn't put much effort into the transfer.

I can understand the difficulty of preserving videotape, such as the first season of Alf which appears to be filmed on video. The studio said the orginals where in such poor condition that they had to use copies used for syndication—therefore copies which had been edited for commercials. Other than that, they look fine.

Drew Carey aired on film. Yet it looks worse than my Gilligan's Island DVDs, both color and black and white. Does this mean recording quality is actually getting worse?

As you can see, my youth was misspent.
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#33494 - 03/20/15 11:21 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: JM Hanes]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Very nice shot! (Where's your vantage point?)
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#33496 - 03/20/15 11:26 AM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
If I were to teach a course in photography, the final exam would be conducted with a reflex camera and a roll of black & white film.

My son just completed a university level course in photography. It broke down roughly 40% picture taking (composition, etc.) and 60% Photoshopping the raw image. The remaining camera store in the town where the university is located (population ~380,000) no longer carries offers film processing or carries any film cameras, processing equipment, or supplies. According to the store owner he sent all of that back after it had been on his shelves for nearly two years without any sales. The biggest camera store in Fort Worth, the 17 largest city in the country, will order film cameras but does not stock them.

Not only that, but I wonder if I could even fill a class with interested students. frown

Edit: Adding some perspective... I spend a considerable amount of time on the Coney Island Boardwalk over the summer, I see an enormous number of people with cameras, and I'm amazed and pleased that many of them are still carrying single or twin-lens reflexes as their only one. They certainly don't abound, but "sympathetic" stores do still exist.

And in a personal vein, I'm occasionally asked to pose, and I never (willingly, anyhow...there's not much I can do about the rude shooters) allow a digital photographer to shoot me; I refuse to allow myself to be deleted in the nearest bar!


Edited by artie505 (03/20/15 12:02 PM)
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#33498 - 03/20/15 12:00 PM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: artie505]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09

Thanks artie. I took it out the window of a 24th floor hotel room, on the Upper West Side of Manhattan looking east across Central Park.


I thought it would be worth giving this Film/Digital conversation its own thread in the Audio,Video, Photography forum, where other potentially interested parties would be more likely to find it. So I started one.

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#33499 - 03/20/15 12:07 PM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: JM Hanes]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: JM Hanes

Thanks artie. I took it out the window of a 24th floor hotel room, on the Upper West Side of Manhattan looking east across Central Park.

Thanks, Judith. (I guessed that those two tall towers are "The Eldorado".)
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#33502 - 03/20/15 01:02 PM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Edit: Adding some perspective... I spend a considerable amount of time on the Coney Island Boardwalk over the summer, I see an enormous number of people with cameras, and I'm amazed and pleased that many of them are still carrying single or twin-lens reflexes as their only one. They certainly don't abound, but "sympathetic" stores do still exist.

The camera store here refers persons looking for film cameras to a store in Brooklyn so Coney Island is close to what may be one of the few remaining sources of film and film cameras. It is a bit far from here however. 1580 miles according to Maps. laugh

BTW, they no longer sell film at either Walt Disney World or DisneyLand but I think you can still get a throwaway camera.
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#33511 - 03/21/15 12:03 PM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: joemikeb]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
BTW, they no longer sell film at either Walt Disney World or DisneyLand but I think you can still get a throwaway camera.


Alas. No more Kodak moments? Do they still have signs around the park that mark out "stand here for a nice shot" locations? grin
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#33513 - 03/21/15 12:28 PM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: Ira L]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Ira L
Alas. No more Kodak moments? Do they still have signs around the park that mark out "stand here for a nice shot" locations? grin

I really didn't notice when I was there in January but a vague recollection makes me think they are still there but perhaps without the Kodak logo. I am going back in May and will make it a point to look for them. I know where many of them were. What caught my attention in January was all the walls hiding multitudinous new attraction construction, especially in Animal Kingdom.
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#33783 - 04/10/15 04:45 PM Re: What is the most durable medium? [Re: joemikeb]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
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#34320 - 05/16/15 05:48 PM Re: What is the most durable med [Re: Ira L]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Okay Ira, it is "the next time I am there" and the Kodak Picture Spots are all gone. They have been replaced with Nikon picture Spots grin
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#34345 - 05/18/15 07:08 AM Re: What is the most durable med [Re: joemikeb]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Alas, but makes sense. Thanks for the update.
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#34350 - 05/18/15 02:45 PM Re: What is the most durable med [Re: Ira L]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Checking on that for you was as good an excuse as any for a trip to Walt Disney World but this time I had an even better excuse. My grandson was graduating from High School about 35 miles from there and the accommodations at WDW are a lot better than any motel in the area.
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#39006 - 02/22/16 02:36 PM Re: What is the most durable med [Re: joemikeb]
deniro Offline


Registered: 09/09/09
The real Superman memory crystal from Optoelectronics Research Center.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/22314...e-360tb-of-data
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