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#38595 - 02/02/16 09:20 PM The sluggishness of Spotlight
kevs Online


Registered: 12/07/09
I just got El Capitan.

Spotlight is glorified feature of OSX i have not used too much.

I'm used to just doing a old fashioned search in finder windows. I would like to appreciate spotlight more, but tonight, I do a search, and put an i, in the spotlight field, it finishes the word for me but not the word I want. It's starts indexing this word I don't want to search, and two hours later is still indexing, and I can't get the spotlight window to vanish, even with escape key.

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#38596 - 02/03/16 02:51 AM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: kevs]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
It sounds as if it's time to reset Spotlight. Read How to determine when your Spotlight index needs to be rebuilt. You can also use the appropriate version of OnyX. Go to the Parameters tab and select Misc. You'll be able to delete the Spotlight index from there and turn Spotlight on again.
_________________________
Jon

macOS 10.15.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#38600 - 02/03/16 06:55 AM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: kevs]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: kevs
I just got El Capitan.

Spotlight is glorified feature of OSX i have not used too much.

I'm used to just doing a old fashioned search in finder windows. I would like to appreciate spotlight more, but tonight, I do a search, and put an i, in the spotlight field, it finishes the word for me but not the word I want. It's starts indexing this word I don't want to search, and two hours later is still indexing, and I can't get the spotlight window to vanish, even with escape key.


You might want to try and use the excellent freeware product EasyFind. It has been around a while, lets you put in exactly what you want to search for, and is fast. I use it, and am quite happy with the product. You can get it from here:

http://www.devontechnologies.com/download/products.html

If you just click on the Download "button" in the row where it says EasyFind, it will download the latest version (4.9.3) directly. No need to go to the App Store.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#38606 - 02/03/16 08:26 AM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: honestone]
kevs Online


Registered: 12/07/09
I have easy find for years, use it in tight jams every year or two.

Thanks J, I find this procedure insanely clunky, how can it be in 2016 that the re-indexing does not happen automatically?

I used to own Onyx, but got rid of it. Question: Does their method simply the clunky Privacy method and does it work well?
Do they have a scheduler or if not maybe I'll put in my calendar to do this every what 6 months, your feeling?


Edited by kevs (02/03/16 08:32 AM)

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#38607 - 02/03/16 08:58 AM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: kevs]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: kevs
I used to own Onyx, but got rid of it. Question: Does their method simply the clunky Privacy method and does it work well?
Do they have a scheduler or if not maybe I'll put in my calendar to do this every what 6 months, your feeling?
I once did a reset of Spotlight via Privacy (a long time ago) and it worked fine. I don't know if OnyX does the same thing.


Edited by jchuzi (02/03/16 08:59 AM)
_________________________
Jon

macOS 10.15.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#38610 - 02/03/16 09:37 AM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: kevs]
kevs Online


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks J, it wont as it's from an unidentified developer. How do I white list them?

Also, you agree, maybe make my own schedule to index spotlight? every 4 months 6 months?

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#38611 - 02/03/16 10:04 AM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: kevs]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I assume that by "white list", you mean temporarily bypassing Gatekeeper (which prevents apps without an Apple certificate from launching). It's really easy to do on a case-by-case basis. Read How to bypass Gatekeeper in OS X Mavericks. Even though it says Mavericks, the same procedure applies to Yosemite and El Capitan.

I can't offer a suggestion about making a schedule to index Spotlight. AFIK, it updates itself automatically, on the fly.
_________________________
Jon

macOS 10.15.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#38614 - 02/03/16 11:20 AM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: jchuzi]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
I assume that by "white list", you mean temporarily bypassing Gatekeeper (which prevents apps without an Apple certificate from launching). It's really easy to do on a case-by-case basis. Read How to bypass Gatekeeper in OS X Mavericks. Even though it says Mavericks, the same procedure applies to Yosemite and El Capitan.

I can't offer a suggestion about making a schedule to index Spotlight. AFIK, it updates itself automatically, on the fly.


I wonder about that "automatically" business. In El Capitan, it supposedly Repairs Permissions "automatically" (and thus why Apple left that feature out of the version of Disk Utility in El Capitan), but every time I use Onyx to do that, on both of my Macs, some stuff does need to be repaired. And, I need to run Onyx twice to complete the repair.


Edited by honestone (02/03/16 11:32 AM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#38617 - 02/03/16 12:33 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: honestone]
kevs Online


Registered: 12/07/09
J thanks thanks

Why is Apple making this so hard? There should an option when the app launches to ok the app then and there. (I did figure i out)

Hone:
YES, that make sense auto index! 2016! But what J described is happening. I use THE GREAT Spotlight and then an slow index bar comes up.

Only is verifying now structure of mac hd, but will it be able to do that with external drives? Most searching is on external drives. Ok, see Parameters, but again, just for Mac HD?


Edited by kevs (02/03/16 12:58 PM)

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#38618 - 02/03/16 01:03 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: kevs]
kevs Online


Registered: 12/07/09
Just did it old clunky fashioned way, dragging hard drives into privacy, and deleting them out, but I clicked on spotlight magnifier in menu bar, and I don't see any progress bars about indexing.

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#38620 - 02/03/16 02:02 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: honestone
wonder about that "automatically" business. In El Capitan, it supposedly Repairs Permissions "automatically" (and thus why Apple left that feature out of the version of Disk Utility in El Capitan), but every time I use Onyx to do that, on both of my Macs, some stuff does need to be repaired. And, I need to run Onyx twice to complete the repair.

There is no unique executable code in OnyX. Like many other utilities, such as Cocktail, TinkerTool System, and Apple's Disk Utility, OnyX is a GUI front end for various Unix commands included in OS X's underlying Unix kernel. In fact the main reason for being very careful that the OnyX version corresponds to the OS X version is because those commands can and do change from OS X release to OS X release.

Permissions Repair, has long had the an issue with reporting errors that no matter how many times they are repaired would still be reported the next time permission repair is run. Apple's response to this has invariably been those "errors" were safe to ignore. Running permission repair has been deprecated by Apple and access to the applicable Unix command removed from Disk Utility perhaps at least in part in an effort to get away from the persistent queries about the reported non-errors. I suspect at some point the command will be removed altogether which will also remove the capability in OnyX, Cocktail, TinkerTool System and a host of other third party utilities.

Originally Posted By: El Capitan
About Spotlight Suggestions & Privacy

Spotlight Suggestions shows suggestions from the internet, iTunes, App Store, movie showtimes, locations nearby, and more in Spotlight and LookUp.

That may explain why your Spotlight search takes so long. Particularly if you have a slow internet connection.

Originally Posted By: keys
Only is verifying now structure of mac hd, but will it be able to do that with external drives?

If Disk Utility can verify the structure of an internal or external drive, so can OnyX because it uses exactly the same Unix command to verify the drive structure.

Spotlight file searches are dependent on an index that is stored in the HFS+ volume structure of the drive. As long as the external drives are formatted HFS+ (a.k.a. Mac OS Extended) Spotlight can build and maintain an index of that drive. Otherwise the only option is a painstaking word by word file by file search of the drive such at that used by EasyFind and Find Any File. Both of which are excellent as long as you aren't in a big hurry to find the file you want.
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#38627 - 02/03/16 03:31 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: joemikeb]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: honestone
wonder about that "automatically" business. In El Capitan, it supposedly Repairs Permissions "automatically" (and thus why Apple left that feature out of the version of Disk Utility in El Capitan), but every time I use Onyx to do that, on both of my Macs, some stuff does need to be repaired. And, I need to run Onyx twice to complete the repair.

There is no unique executable code in OnyX. Like many other utilities, such as Cocktail, TinkerTool System, and Apple's Disk Utility, OnyX is a GUI front end for various Unix commands included in OS X's underlying Unix kernel. In fact the main reason for being very careful that the OnyX version corresponds to the OS X version is because those commands can and do change from OS X release to OS X release.

Permissions Repair, has long had the an issue with reporting errors that no matter how many times they are repaired would still be reported the next time permission repair is run. Apple's response to this has invariably been those "errors" were safe to ignore. Running permission repair has been deprecated by Apple and access to the applicable Unix command removed from Disk Utility perhaps at least in part in an effort to get away from the persistent queries about the reported non-errors. I suspect at some point the command will be removed altogether which will also remove the capability in OnyX, Cocktail, TinkerTool System and a host of other third party utilities.


I know about the non-existence of such code in Onyx. The somewhat "graphical" interface with Onyx makes it much, much simpler and efficient to utilize its features. I prefer it that way.

It is also important that Onyx is a proven, reliable, and well reviewed product (as are the other ones you mentioned).

As for Permissions Repair, maybe as Apple moves forward with future versions of the OS, such an activity will not be necessary. But (and these forums are an example of what I say next) a number of folks are still using older versions of the OS (some as "old" as Snow Leopard!), and thus Permissions Repair will still be necessary. Given that Apple (supposedly) made such a task "automatic" in El Capitan is further evidence that it still matters. I will continue to use Onyx, as it has other, useful tasks.


Edited by honestone (02/03/16 07:58 PM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#38628 - 02/03/16 03:38 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: joemikeb]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: joemikeb

Spotlight file searches are dependent on an index that is stored in the HFS+ volume structure of the drive. As long as the external drives are formatted HFS+ (a.k.a. Mac OS Extended) Spotlight can build and maintain an index of that drive. Otherwise the only option is a painstaking word by word file by file search of the drive such at that used by EasyFind and Find Any File. Both of which are excellent as long as you aren't in a big hurry to find the file you want.


I find EasyFind to be easily fast enough. That is one reason why I prefer it over Spotlight. It has always served me well.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#38629 - 02/03/16 03:45 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Running permission repair has been deprecated....

Apple's exact language is...

Originally Posted By: Apple
Beginning with OS X El Capitan, system file permissions are automatically protected. It's no longer necessary to verify or repair permissions with Disk Utility. (Emphasis added)

That's because of SIP.

I've not found any indication at all that permission repair is automatic in El Cap as has been suggested.


Edited by artie505 (02/03/16 07:23 PM)
Edit Reason: Cleanup
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#38635 - 02/03/16 05:11 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: artie505]
kevs Online


Registered: 12/07/09
I think I'm getting rid of Onyx. You start it and you have to enter your password and then wait a long time for verification of the drive, and you are locked out of your computer completely. I don't remember this from years ago when I used Onyx.

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#38636 - 02/03/16 06:02 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
I think I'm getting rid of Onyx. You start it and you have to enter your password and then wait a long time for verification of the drive, and you are locked out of your computer completely. I don't remember this from years ago when I used Onyx.

I trashed OnyX virtually immediately after downloading it years ago when it asked for my admin password before I asked it to do anything that required admin privileges.


Edited by artie505 (02/03/16 06:10 PM)
Edit Reason: Make better
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#38638 - 02/03/16 06:09 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: kevs]
MarkG Offline


Registered: 08/06/09
Why not uncheck the boxes that say verify the structure of the drive and
repair permissions and just run the other parts of the Automation on Onyx that you want. it will go much quicker.

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#38639 - 02/03/16 06:27 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: MarkG]
kevs Online


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Mark, did not see that, really, the original reason for getting it again, was not needed. The clunky, add hardrives and then remove them seem to still be best way to get spotlight to index.
Good call Artie, only other software that seems to ask this every time is Cocktail, but I think all those type of utilities are not needed anymore...

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#38640 - 02/03/16 06:48 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: artie505]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Running permission repair has been deprecated....

Apple's exact language is...

Originally Posted By: Apple
Beginning with OS X El Capitan, system file permissions are automatically protected. It's no longer necessary to verify or repair permissions with Disk Utility. (Emphasis added)

That's because of SIP.


Well, not according to this:

http://osxdaily.com/2015/11/04/verify-repair-permissions-mac-os-x/

and this:

http://www.macissues.com/2015/10/02/about-os-x-10-11-el-capitan-and-permissions-fixes/

And, within that last link:

"With El Capitan, this need has changed with the implementation of System Integrity Protection (SIP). This process both locks out root-level access to core system files, and continually ensures component permissions are set according to developer intentions when updates are applied (Emphasis added). Therefore, there should not be any need to run a manual permissions fix. In fact, you may now need to purposefully disable SIP in order to alter permissions for some desired customization"

No use of the term deprecated, and also that SIP ensures that permissions are properly set.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#38641 - 02/03/16 06:53 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: kevs]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: kevs
I think I'm getting rid of Onyx. You start it and you have to enter your password and then wait a long time for verification of the drive, and you are locked out of your computer completely. I don't remember this from years ago when I used Onyx.


The first thing it does is to check for updates. Second, for the "Verifying The Structure of the Disk", one can choose Cancel. I let it do that when I first launch Onyx (but not on subsequent launches), and it does not take long at all (although I am doing that with 256 gig SSDs).


Edited by honestone (02/03/16 06:54 PM)
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#38642 - 02/03/16 06:55 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: MarkG]
honestone Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/13/15
Loc: Seattle, WA (up in God's Count...
Originally Posted By: MarkG
Why not uncheck the boxes that say verify the structure of the drive and
repair permissions and just run the other parts of the Automation on Onyx that you want. it will go much quicker.


Exactly! Perfect example of my KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple Stupid.
_________________________
Using Macs since 1984
Current Systems:
Mid 2013 13" MacBook Air with 251 gig Samsung SSD
Late 2012 Mac Mini with 256 gig Samsung 840 Pro SSD
Using OS 10.11.5 on both
Make SuperDuper! backups for both machines
Canon Multifunction Inkjet Printer

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#38661 - 02/04/16 11:46 PM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: honestone]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
The discussion prompted me to update my version of OnyX which was still a beta version. I downloaded, installed and ran version 2.4.8 (for Lion) and experienced no issues at any point.

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#38669 - 02/05/16 07:42 AM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: grelber]
kevs Online


Registered: 12/07/09
This morning, I type in an easy search and Spotlight just sits there. Nothing happens. At least Easy find the gears start turning. And Spotlight got the full index done. Why the slowness?

Ok its working, its just not that speedy— few questions:

Is there Anyway to turn off auto-suggest, it often dominates and takes over what I want to type.

Also, I get a on long thin vertical window — it cuts off the file/ folder result names, as well as the path names at the bottom right (need to click command to see that); is there anyway to extend out to the right the window for results? I can't seem to do that. And is there anyway to get path to stay visible at all times? Thanks guys!


Edited by kevs (02/05/16 07:52 AM)

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#38670 - 02/05/16 08:32 AM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: kevs]
Ira L Online


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: kevs
Is there Anyway to turn off auto-suggest, it often dominates and takes over what I want to type.


It may not do completely what you want, but in System Preferences>Keyboard, under the "Text" tab, there is a checkbox for "automatically correct spelling". Uncheck it, if it is not already.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.15.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#38672 - 02/05/16 09:26 AM Re: The sluggishness of Spotlight [Re: Ira L]
kevs Online


Registered: 12/07/09
Ira, thanks, I just looking for a solution to Spotlight, not every software. I would love a tip on the other question about not being able to stretch out the window to see the full files name results.

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