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#37192 - 11/14/15 07:18 PM Can't get AHT to run
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Tried disconnecting everything and holding down D but eventually just boots HD. Tried connecting to web via Ethernet and holding down Option-D, but connected to Apple and then got an exclamation mark?
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HP Laserjet 6MP printing postscript via 10/100 Intel print server
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#37194 - 11/15/15 12:53 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Using Apple Hardware Test may help, but two questions come to mind:
  1. You're often unclear about which Mac you're dealing with, so I'll ask if the one in question came with AHT on a disc or installed on its HD, i.e. have you been trying to do something that can't be done?
  2. Either way, did you restart your Mac, or did you shut it down first as per Apple's instructions?


Edited by artie505 (11/15/15 03:08 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarify
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#37195 - 11/15/15 07:22 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
It's the mid 2010, should have AHT built in. I just had another back surgery and can't get to my original CDs.

edit: I did restart it, it has to be completely shut down and then restart it holding D down?


Edited by slolerner (11/15/15 07:25 AM)
Edit Reason: More
_________________________
Mid 2010 MacBook Pro 13"
2.4GHz, 750GB SATA HD, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.7.5
1 HDX1500 2TB Ext.HD, 2 HDX1500 1TB Ext.HD
HP Laserjet 6MP printing postscript via 10/100 Intel print server
Netgear WN2500RP Range Extender (Ira rocks!)
Linksys WRT1900AC Wireless Router
Brother MFC-9340CDW Color Laser
iPad Air

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#37198 - 11/15/15 11:19 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Linked doc
Using Apple Hardware Test
Shut down your computer. Then, press the power button to turn it back on.
Press and hold the D key before the gray startup screen appears.

Originally Posted By: Linked doc
Using Apple Hardware Test on computers with OS X v10.7 and earlier
AHT is located on the Applications Install Disc 2 and should be included with your computer....

(As per Mactracker, your MBP shipped with Snowy, so AHT s/b on the referenced disc.)

Sorry to hear about your surgery; I hope you're doing well. smile
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#37199 - 11/15/15 11:26 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
I updated it to 10.7. That may be the problem... I may need the installation CD.
_________________________
Mid 2010 MacBook Pro 13"
2.4GHz, 750GB SATA HD, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.7.5
1 HDX1500 2TB Ext.HD, 2 HDX1500 1TB Ext.HD
HP Laserjet 6MP printing postscript via 10/100 Intel print server
Netgear WN2500RP Range Extender (Ira rocks!)
Linksys WRT1900AC Wireless Router
Brother MFC-9340CDW Color Laser
iPad Air

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#37200 - 11/15/15 11:31 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: slolerner
I updated it to 10.7. That may be the problem... I may need the installation CD.

You need to dig out your discs, but not your OS X Installation disc...your Applications Install Disc 2.

Edit: What's your problem?


Edited by artie505 (11/15/15 11:55 AM)
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#37203 - 11/15/15 04:44 PM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Well, I had someone come in and turn off my computer and when I turned it on after getting home, it said there was no airport hardware. I ended up just opening and closing the lid a few times and the card came back, but was still curious why AHT wouldn't run because I knew it was built in, that is, would run without the disk. I guess it is part of the OS and not in the firmware?

Edit: I did try shutting it down and then starting it up holding down the D but it makes bonking sounds that sound bad and then when I release the D it boots into my HD.


Edited by slolerner (11/15/15 04:47 PM)
Edit Reason: More
_________________________
Mid 2010 MacBook Pro 13"
2.4GHz, 750GB SATA HD, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.7.5
1 HDX1500 2TB Ext.HD, 2 HDX1500 1TB Ext.HD
HP Laserjet 6MP printing postscript via 10/100 Intel print server
Netgear WN2500RP Range Extender (Ira rocks!)
Linksys WRT1900AC Wireless Router
Brother MFC-9340CDW Color Laser
iPad Air

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#37204 - 11/15/15 05:10 PM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
...was still curious why AHT wouldn't run because I knew it was built in, that is, would run without the disk. I guess it is part of the OS and not in the firmware?

I dunno why you insist on the "D" thing after my last few posts?

Originally Posted By: Linked doc
Using Apple Hardware Test on computers (that shipped) with OS X v10.7 and earlier
AHT is located on the Applications Install Disc 2 and should be included with your computer.... To start AHT on these computers make sure the Applications Install Disc 2 is inserted into the built-in optical drive, external Apple Superdrive.... (Emphasis added)

Your version of OS X has nothing to do with where AHT lives, rather it's a function of how new your Mac is, and yours is not new enough.
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#37206 - 11/15/15 06:47 PM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: slolerner
Well, I had someone come in and turn off my computer and when I turned it on after getting home, it said there was no airport hardware. I ended up just opening and closing the lid a few times and the card came back,

If memory serves, in older laptops the Airport antenna is in the lid and connected airport "card" located on the logic board by a ribbon cable. I suspect the intermittent connection is the result of
  1. a damaged (frayed or.broken) cable or
  2. loose cable connector

Originally Posted By: slolerner
but was still curious why AHT wouldn't run because I knew it was built in, that is, would run without the disk. I guess it is part of the OS and not in the firmware?
AHT is a stand alone utility and not part of either the OS or firmware. Depending on the version of OS X it was either on the only install disk or the second install disk when there were two. In OS X 10.9 and later there is no AHT per.se. but Disk Utility and key utilities including an installer are on the Recovry Drive partition on the boot drive. The command+D boot works only when the correct install disc is in the optical drive.
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#37207 - 11/15/15 11:46 PM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
The command+D boot works only when the correct install disc is in the optical drive.

With my Mid-2010 MBP and, I assume, slolerner's too, booting from Install Disc 2 into AHT works with "D" only. command-D boots into OS X.


Edited by artie505 (11/16/15 02:21 AM)
Edit Reason: Better
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#37209 - 11/16/15 06:18 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
I seem to remember when I bought my 15" mid-2010 that all I had to do in the store was hold down the D when starting up, without the install disk and it ran AHT. It was built in.

Yes, I did solve the airport problem for now by opening and closing the lid a few times because I know the card is in the hinge and yes, it must have a loose connection which became a problem when it was closed after shutting it down. I don't usually shut the lid because it is home all the time . It therefore is a loose connection but it is not under AppleCare, obviously because of its age, so it is not worth the repair unless it is a part that is easy to get to and something that I can do.

Edit: I read on a website that with Option-D I can boot into Apple and run AHT however when I tried to do it, I got a globe icon and then it had an exclamation mark over the globe icon with an error code. It's not urgent since opening and closing the lid solved the problem for now but was curious why neither of these options launched AHT. As I said, I can't get to the installation DVD so it can wait...


Edited by slolerner (11/16/15 06:26 AM)
Edit Reason: More
_________________________
Mid 2010 MacBook Pro 13"
2.4GHz, 750GB SATA HD, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.7.5
1 HDX1500 2TB Ext.HD, 2 HDX1500 1TB Ext.HD
HP Laserjet 6MP printing postscript via 10/100 Intel print server
Netgear WN2500RP Range Extender (Ira rocks!)
Linksys WRT1900AC Wireless Router
Brother MFC-9340CDW Color Laser
iPad Air

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#37215 - 11/16/15 07:34 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: slolerner]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
fyi to all, the apple diagnostics (be they the Apple Hardware Test or the Apple Service Diagnostics) are located in a hidden folder

/System/Library/CoreServices/.diagnostics/

That folder is present on a mac shipped from apple, but may be overwritten if you have to reinstall your OS, since that's an OS folder. It's possible to reinstall it, but it's a bit of a hassle to find and to get correctly reinstalled. If it's present but not selectable or does not start, it's probably not blessed (similar to blessing a regular OS startup volume), and may require a terminal command to fix.

IIRC, it will show up in the boot picker, when you hold Option at startup. It may not be named logically, and may show up as "EFI" or "EFI Boot".

You can also try holding "A" instead of "D".
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#37229 - 11/17/15 02:26 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: slolerner
I seem to remember when I bought my 15" mid-2010 that all I had to do in the store was hold down the D when starting up, without the install disk and it ran AHT. It was built in.

(Wait! Haven't you got a 13" Mid 2010?)

That sounds like you're misremembering. I've got a 15" Mid 2010 (bought refurbed in 2013...came with OS X 10.6.4), and it came with AHT on Install Disc 2.

Maybe you were hooked into the Apple Store's ethernet?

(Curious... Why did you boot into AHT when you were buying a new Mac? Are you really that thorough?)

Originally Posted By: slolerner
I read on a website that with Option-D I can boot into Apple and run AHT....

I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what you read.

Originally Posted By: Linked doc
Some Macintosh computers that shipped with OS X Lion and later support the use of Apple Hardware Test over the Internet. These computers will start up to an Internet-based version of AHT if the hard drive does not contain AHT. (Emphasis added)

I can't find any reference to any Mid 2010 MBP having shipped with other than Snowy. (Late 2011s first shipped with Lion 10.7.2.)


Edited by artie505 (11/17/15 02:56 AM)
Edit Reason: More, less & better wording
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#37232 - 11/17/15 07:57 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Apple Knowledge Base article HT210157 that addresses AHT (Apple Hardware Test) on Macs shipped prior to June 3013…
Quote:
AHT is located on the Applications Install Disc 2 and should be included with your computer or the MacBook Air Software Reinstall Drive on a MacBook Air (Late 2010). To start AHT on these computers make sure the Applications Install Disc 2 is inserted into the built-in optical drive, external Apple Superdrive, or for the MacBook Air (Late 2010) be sure the MacBook Air Software Reinstall Drive is inserted into a USB port. Then, follow steps 1-6 outlined in the previous section of this article.

Apple Knowledge Base article HT202731 addresses AD (Apple Diagnostics) that replaced AHT on all computers shipped since June 2013.
Quote:
You should have an Internet connection before starting Apple Diagnostics. This will enable Apple Diagnostics to recommend support resources. Additionally, if Apple Diagnostics is not found on the internal startup volume, an Internet-based version starts up instead. You can still run Apple Diagnostics without an Internet connection, but no results will be uploaded to Apple and no connection to Apple Support web pages will occur.

In either case the startup instructions are the same:
  1. Perform a COLD BOOT
    1. Shut down your computer
    2. Press the Power key
  2. Immediately press and hold the D key (NOTE: in computers shipped prior to June 2013 the Install Disc 2 must be in the optical drive)


Edited by joemikeb (11/17/15 08:03 AM)
Edit Reason: typo
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#37236 - 11/17/15 10:36 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Yes, I do have a 13" mid-2010 and when I bought my 15" mid-2010 I did run AHT in the store because I am that thorough. I did not use the DVD, I pressed a key to boot into AHT.

When I booted into Apple's site via Ethernet with the 13" mid-2010 i have now that I bought as a refurb that shipped with 10.6 but have since updated it to 10.7, I got the Apple globe icon and then it got an exclamation point over it and an error message. So, I was not able to boot into Apple.
_________________________
Mid 2010 MacBook Pro 13"
2.4GHz, 750GB SATA HD, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.7.5
1 HDX1500 2TB Ext.HD, 2 HDX1500 1TB Ext.HD
HP Laserjet 6MP printing postscript via 10/100 Intel print server
Netgear WN2500RP Range Extender (Ira rocks!)
Linksys WRT1900AC Wireless Router
Brother MFC-9340CDW Color Laser
iPad Air

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#37239 - 11/17/15 01:03 PM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
...addresses AHT (Apple Hardware Test) on Macs shipped prior to June 3013…

I reeeally WANT one of the Macs that shipped after June 3013.

It must be one hell of a machine! grin

Sorry...couldn't resist. smile

Edit: HT210157 is a typo...s/b HT201257.


Edited by artie505 (11/17/15 01:38 PM)
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#37240 - 11/17/15 01:36 PM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: slolerner
Yes, I do have a 13" mid-2010 and when I bought my 15" mid-2010 I did run AHT in the store because I am that thorough. I did not use the DVD, I pressed a key to boot into AHT.

I'm impressed by your thoroughness! I've never thought of running AHT on a new Mac.

But as per joemike's post (which links to the same doc to which I linked, albeit with a mistyped doc #) you couldn't have booted your 2010 model into AHT without a disc, which is why I asked if you were plugged into the store's ethernet.

Originally Posted By: slolerner
When I booted into Apple's site via Ethernet with the 13" mid-2010 i have now that I bought as a refurb that shipped with 10.6 but have since updated it to 10.7, I got the Apple globe icon and then it got an exclamation point over it and an error message. So, I was not able to boot into Apple.

Again, that's fully in keeping with joemike's post. Inability to use ethernet boot is a function of your pre-June 2013 hardware, NOT you version of OS X.
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#37249 - 11/18/15 05:22 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: artie505]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
...addresses AHT (Apple Hardware Test) on Macs shipped prior to June 3013…

I reeeally WANT one of the Macs that shipped after June 3013.

Bettin' you'll regret that. Imagine the compatibility issues@ I bet you won't even be able to get on the SuperNet.
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#37252 - 11/18/15 05:34 AM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: Virtual1]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
...addresses AHT (Apple Hardware Test) on Macs shipped prior to June 3013…

I reeeally WANT one of the Macs that shipped after June 3013.

Bettin' you'll regret that. Imagine the compatibility issues@ I bet you won't even be able to get on the SuperNet.

My biggest issue will be what to do with all the money I sell it for.

Hell, I hate OS X 10.11; imagine what 10.678 will be like. frown
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#37282 - 11/18/15 12:06 PM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: Virtual1]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
fyi to all, the apple diagnostics (be they the Apple Hardware Test or the Apple Service Diagnostics) are located in a hidden folder

/System/Library/CoreServices/.diagnostics/

That folder is present on a mac shipped from apple, but may be overwritten if you have to reinstall your OS, since that's an OS folder.

Does the diagnostics folder exist in Yosemite, and does it persist after OS X updates (as opposed to reinstalls)? The reason I ask is because I can’t find it on my 2014 retina iMac, which I updated from Mac OS X 10.10.0 to 10.10.5.
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#37285 - 11/18/15 12:19 PM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: alternaut]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: alternaut
Does the diagnostics folder exist in Yosemite, and does it persist after OS X updates (as opposed to reinstalls)? The reason I ask is because I can’t find it on my 2014 retina iMac, which I updated from Mac OS X 10.10.0 to 10.10.5.

No, it's not a part of the operating system, and does NOT ship with any OS. It is machine-specific, and is installed after the OS is installed, on new computers before they are shipped to the consumer.

Reinstalling your OS will erase the diagnostics. There's no clear method that I'm aware of that Apple supports for reinstalling it.

If you are merely upgrading your OS however, I would expect the installer to preserve it. Unless you have selected the "archive and install" option, at which point I would expect it to get moved aside along with the entire OS, since that's where it was installed.

There are other things you can do though, such as creating a little 1gb partition (far bigger than required) and installing ONLY the necessary folders, and getting them properly blessed so they are detected by the hotkeys at startup. This would allow even an archive-and-install (but not an erase-and-install) to occur without killing your diagnostics, because it would be living on a separate partition. You should be able to install this on your time machine drive for example. And now that Apple supports nondestructive partitioning, that would be relatively simple to do. A GOOD thing to do really, just in case you need to nuke your hard drive. Speaking of Time Machine, it should restore the diagnostics on the boot drive if they were there to begin with, as long as you have TM set to back up system files in addition to your data.
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#37286 - 11/18/15 12:27 PM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: Virtual1]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
I only updated (not upgraded) using Apple’s Mac OS X 10.10.x updaters, no archive & install. All I can find in /System/Library/CoreServices is the diagnostics_agent (and yes, I made invisibles visible).
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#37288 - 11/18/15 12:32 PM Re: Can't get AHT to run [Re: alternaut]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: alternaut
I only updated (not upgraded) using Apple’s Mac OS X 10.10.x updaters, no archive & install. All I can find in /System/Library/CoreServices is the diagnostics_agent (and yes, I made invisibles visible).

then as far as I am aware of and understand the process, the diagnostics should still be there. But Apple seems to be moving toward netbooting diagnostics. They may be phasing out on-disk diags? Can you netboot diagnostics over the internet?
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