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#35956 - 09/11/15 03:14 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: joemikeb]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Yesterday Apple announced El Capitan (OS X 10.11) would be released by the end of September. At the same time they made the Gold Master available to beta testers through the App Store. Will it surprise anyone here to know that I have already installed it? Anyway I want to share a few things with you about El Capitan and the installation.
  • I like it! 😄 No big surprise there, but compared to Yosemite, El Capitan is…
    • Faster (especially Safari 9.0 that is part of the release)
    • More stable
    • More Bullet Proof (potentially exploitable features have been completely disabled or shielded)
    • Requires less maintenance (In fact many of the old routine preventative maintenance and/or troubleshooting functions are either not available in El Capitan or they are deprecated and strongly not recommended. For example permission repair, housekeeping routines, and defragmenting of files or volumes. Some functions troubleshooters have taken for granted in the past are not even possible in El Capitan.
  • Warning:
    • A few old programs may have to be redesigned, rewritten, or substantially modified because functions they depended on are blocked by El Capitan to prevent their being exploited by malware.
    • Do not use third party utilities such as TechTool Pro 8, Drive Genius 4, DiskWarrior, TinkerTool, TinkerTool System, MacPilot, OnyX, etc. until the developer has certified them for use with El Capitan
  • Caution:
    • CarbonCopyCloner 3.5 will not run on El Capitan. CCC 4 will run but I have verified whether or not it can produce a bootable clone or if that clone retains the security protections of El Capitan.
    • The latest version of SuperDuper (version 2.7.5(v. 95)) runs but for some reason I was not able to produce a bootable clone using it and I have not taken time to troubleshoot the issue.
  • Before Installing El Capitan
    • Be certain you have a good Time Machine or other backup before installing El Capitan — no one has yet been able to repeal Murphy’s law.
    • It is a good idea to run Disk Utility > Volume Repair, TechTool Pro 8 > Volume Repair, Drive Genius 4 > Repair and/or Rebuild, or DiskWarrior to be sure your volume structures are in good shape.
    • Be certain all of your Applications, Utilities, plugins, kernel extensions, etc. are up to date. The App Store will keep anything you get from there up to date (you really should turn on automatic updating) but non-App Store software is up to the developer and it behooves you to be very vigilant and do not put updates off. Etrecheck can be helpful here — as of this morning, the current version is 2.4.2.
    • Because of increased security measures in El Capitan you may find some of your applications will have to be reinstalled because the El Capitan installer will have removed and discarded some third party files from system areas. Generally reinstallation is all it takes to restore functionality but there may be cases where you will have to get an update from the developer.
    • Based on my experience installing the Gold Master I would encourage you to disconnect any and all unessential peripherals before the install. The install will go faster and you are less likely to encounter problems during the install. Other than that the install seems pretty bullet proof.


Much wise counsel there.

For moi, the point about disconnecting peripherals is especially noteworthy. ( I once had a peripheral that needed to unmount as part of the second reboot of an upgrade. But it didn't. Predictable results necessitating another install.)

And I'll especially heed the advice about DiskWarrior and the like, as I am guilty of always running that immediately after an update.

And thus, my thanks! grin
_________________________
Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#35959 - 09/11/15 05:05 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Although I won't upgrade to El Capitán until 10.11.2, I appreciate your sage advice. I'm most concerned that MS Office 2008 and Adobe Photoshop CS5 will run with the new OS. Do you have any experience with those apps?

Sorry Jon, I got rid of the last vestiges of Microsoft on my systems years ago. However, I will say El Capitan has had an extensive beta — the Gold Master is the 8th release so If there are issues I am confident Adobe and Microsoft would be aware of them — but the ball is in their court and neither has any incentive to fix an out of print product.

With their market saturation both have significant cash flow problems that can only be helped by selling or renting upgrades. (As much as I dislike the software rental trend, it is an ingenious way for developers with market saturation to maintain cash flow so they can remain in business.)
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joemikeb • moderator

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#35991 - 09/14/15 01:36 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: joemikeb]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#35992 - 09/14/15 05:21 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: jchuzi]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Understandably so (from my perspective), this is what Alsoft told me when I asked about DiskWarrior's compatibility with 10.11:

"We provide no information or support for DiskWarrior with beta versions of the operating system. As the beta software changes so quickly, there is no manner to diagnose any problems.

When the software is officially released (presently announced as September 30th), all relevant information will be posted on our website."
_________________________
Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#35993 - 09/14/15 07:28 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: joemikeb]
pbGuy Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
...latest version of SuperDuper (version 2.7.5(v. 95)) runs but for some reason I was not able to produce a bootable clone using it and I have not taken time to troubleshoot the issue....


Here's Jason Snell's July 9 report on SuperDuper's v2.7.5 status with El Capitan: Six Colors Blog

Here's the Sept 13 update from Shirt-Pocket's Blog about compatibility: SuperDuper status

_________________________
MBP15 i7 (2017) - 1TB PCIe-SSD - 10.14.3, iPhone X & iPadPro 11 WiFi, Watch4

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#35995 - 09/14/15 10:00 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: pbGuy]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
And here is what Micromat posted in its forums regarding TechTool Pro:

"The program must be tested with the final release of El Capitan before we can release a version that we can know to be fully compatible with it. The beta program is covered by a non-disclosure agreement, and is not discussed in the forums.

Apple not only reserves the right to make major changes in the final release that were not in any of the betas, they have already done that before, with serious consequences for disk repair utilities. When Tiger was released, Apple added a disk directory file, the Extended Attributes file, that was not in the Tiger betas. Any disk repair utility that did not take the Extended Attributes file into account caused damage to it. A volume with a damaged Extended Attributes file would not mount.

We are never going to forget that the final release may contain a major surprise.…

TechTool Pro makes clones using system software tools, as do almost all programs. Assuming that Apple updates its own tools, I would assume that we will be able to offer a version of our cloning that works with El Capitan."
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#36000 - 09/15/15 05:40 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: joemikeb]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Joe,

You had been kind enough to recommend Checkmate and I have been using it. Does Checkmate work with El Capitán?
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#36002 - 09/15/15 08:27 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Does Checkmate work with El Capitán?

Yes, because Checkmate only TESTS the volumes/drives whereas Diskwarrior, Drive Genius, and TechTool Pro not only test the volumes/drives, they attempt to REPAIR any damage or modify system settings. Apple sometimes deletes, replaces, or modifies Unix commands that third party applications are relying on to perform some repair/maintenance activities or adds functions to the HFS+ (Apple OS Extended) file system. So utilities that are unaware of those changes and attempt to make repairs or modify settings risk fatally damaging the system and/or drive volume structure.

By the way I am now running an OWC Thunderbay mini RAID 5 array and somewhat to my surprise Checkmate successfully performs surface scans, verifies the partition map, and gathers SMART data on each of the four drives in the RAID array. However it does not attempt a volume structure check of the RAID array. Apparently the Thunderbolt bus does not have the same limitations preventing SMART that USB and firewire do. As with the fusion drive each drive is tested individually and not the combined logical volume.


Edited by joemikeb (09/15/15 08:42 AM)
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joemikeb • moderator

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#36004 - 09/15/15 12:07 PM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: joemikeb]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Apparently the Thunderbolt bus does not have the same limitations preventing SMART that USB and firewire do. As with the fusion drive each drive is tested individually and not the combined logical volume.

I believe that Firewire, and the original USB, predate SMART. Why they didn't add it to USB3 I have no idea.
_________________________
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

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#36005 - 09/15/15 12:39 PM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: Virtual1]
pbGuy Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
...Was doing some maintenance today (9/15), which included using SuperDuper!, and received an update notice for v2.8 (said to be El Capitan compatible). Download and use was typically smooth. smile

...10.11 Beta testers, did this update resolve the clone booting?
_________________________
MBP15 i7 (2017) - 1TB PCIe-SSD - 10.14.3, iPhone X & iPadPro 11 WiFi, Watch4

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#36006 - 09/15/15 02:47 PM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: pbGuy]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: pbGuy
...Was doing some maintenance today (9/15), which included using SuperDuper!, and received an update notice for v2.8 (said to be El Capitan compatible). Download and use was typically smooth. smile

...10.11 Beta testers, did this update resolve the clone booting?


In a subsequent conversation with the developer, he advised that prior to making the first 10.11 clone, one should first delete & then recreate all the scheduled backups.
_________________________
Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#36008 - 09/16/15 06:04 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: Pendragon]
pbGuy Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: Pendragon
... the developer ... advised that prior to making the first 10.11 clone, ... first delete & then recreate all the scheduled backups.


I don't understand the purpose in doing so, since SD! v2.8 is compatible with Yosemite.

Pendragon, can you enlighten further, or are the prior, referenced backups solely related to scheduled ones as opposed to those manually initiated?
_________________________
MBP15 i7 (2017) - 1TB PCIe-SSD - 10.14.3, iPhone X & iPadPro 11 WiFi, Watch4

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#36009 - 09/16/15 06:14 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: pbGuy]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: pbGuy
Originally Posted By: Pendragon
... the developer ... advised that prior to making the first 10.11 clone, ... first delete & then recreate all the scheduled backups.


I don't understand the purpose in doing so, since SD! v2.8 is compatible with Yosemite.

Pendragon, can you enlighten further, or are the prior, referenced backups solely related to scheduled ones as opposed to those manually initiated?


The details/explanation re why the schedules need be deleted and then recreated are best explained here.
_________________________
Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#36010 - 09/17/15 09:05 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: Pendragon]
pbGuy Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: Pendragon
Originally Posted By: pbGuy
Originally Posted By: Pendragon
...prior to making the first 10.11 clone, ... first delete & then recreate all the scheduled backups.


... don't understand the purpose in doing so, since SD! v2.8 is compatible with Yosemite.

... are the prior, referenced backups solely related to scheduled ones as opposed to ... manually initiated?


The details/explanation re why the schedules need be deleted and then recreated are best explained here.


Your link was the same as in one of the links I previously provided and IMHO, Shirt-Pocket's 9/13 blog post didn't address my question.

Nonetheless, here's detail now on Shirt-Pocket's v2.8 download page, which doesn't mention having to delete anything prior to either a Manual or Scheduled clone: v2.8 Download
_________________________
MBP15 i7 (2017) - 1TB PCIe-SSD - 10.14.3, iPhone X & iPadPro 11 WiFi, Watch4

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#36012 - 09/17/15 10:41 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: pbGuy]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Sorry my help, wasn't.

FWIW, my confusion was such that I first verified the schedule recreations with the developer.

Had I not previously seen the blog, I never would have broached the subject, for indeed, I found no such caveat with the install/directions.

Now, I just hope SD! works as advertised with 10.11
_________________________
Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#36013 - 09/17/15 10:41 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: pbGuy]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#36014 - 09/17/15 11:38 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: jchuzi]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
that web site (appleinsider) is SOOOOO flooded with scamware, snake oil and click bait in the ads piled all over the page that I don't really even want to go there anymore.
_________________________
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

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#36015 - 09/17/15 12:12 PM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
It may be available to Developers, but it is not available to beta testers so that sounds more like an alpha release.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#36173 - 09/30/15 01:50 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: joemikeb]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#36176 - 09/30/15 07:42 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Although Jason Snell's observations and comments are better thought out and presented they mirror mine all the way down the line.

El Capitan is a substantial improvement over Yosemite. As I have said before not only is El Capitan more stable than Yosemite (I share Jason snell's rock solid comment) it is noticeably snappier. From what I can discern most of the app incompatibilities are the result of changes in the OS surrounding the "rootless" mode. Although SIP (System Integrity Protection a.k.a. rootless mode) has presented challenges to some third party developers, it does not take a PhD in software engineering to see how the added security benefits outweigh the challenges. I use Mission Control extensively and I concur it is better and friendlier in El Capitan than previous iterations. I haven't used split screen enough that I automatically activate it, but I really should. Split screen is a major new feature that IMHO will change a lot of user's workflows.

FWIW, I do not have testing to back this up, but empirically it appears El Capitan has done a great job fine tuning the memory management features introduced in Yosemite. I have 16GB of RAM in my Mac mini and to date I have never been able to force "memory pressure" out of the green range and swap file usage stubbornly clings to zero. (That alone would be enough to make the system operation a lot "snappier".)

As far as I am concerned, for those who are reluctant to adopt a first release of an OS X upgrade there is no reason to hesitate upgrading from Yosemite to El Capitan. The El Capitan beta is already better and more stable than Yosemite.
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#36181 - 09/30/15 10:15 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: joemikeb]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
If you use Default Folder, it is currently not compatible with 10.11. The developer does post a work-around that requires turning off certain critical protections, but also states that a fully compatible version 5 is in the works.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#36189 - 09/30/15 01:17 PM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: Ira L]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Ira L
If you use Default Folder, it is currently not compatible with 10.11. The developer does post a work-around that requires turning off certain critical protections, but also states that a fully compatible version 5 is in the works.

The article Jon linked mentioned that.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#36282 - 10/05/15 04:10 PM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: joemikeb]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Does Checkmate work with El Capitán?

Yes, because Checkmate only TESTS the volumes/drives whereas Diskwarrior, Drive Genius, and TechTool Pro not only test the volumes/drives, they attempt to REPAIR any damage or modify system settings. Apple sometimes deletes, replaces, or modifies Unix commands that third party applications are relying on to perform some repair/maintenance activities or adds functions to the HFS+ (Apple OS Extended) file system. So utilities that are unaware of those changes and attempt to make repairs or modify settings risk fatally damaging the system and/or drive volume structure.

This update to Checkmate has just been released and claims to be compatible with El Capitán. If the older version worked with EC, that might have been either coincidence or perhaps you didn't spot something.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#36297 - 10/06/15 08:43 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
… If the older version worked with EC, that might have been either coincidence or perhaps you didn't spot something.

Frankly I detected no difference in the performance of the previous version of Checkmate or in either of the beta releases of the new version. They all appeared to function quite normally on my system. confused confused confused
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#36304 - 10/07/15 04:49 AM Re: El Capitan (OS X 10.11) Public Beta Available [Re: joemikeb]
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
Got back from holiday to find El Capitan ready to install, so I did – after doing a clone of my drive.

Install was straight forward. Used EC for two days and got fed up. It works fine, but I've used Default Folder since 8.5 and don't want to do without it, and don't want to disable any Apple "features".

I also couldn't update Flash without resorting to Safe Mode. During Safe Mode, my screen exhibited some bizarre banding behaviour.

I had no problems using Adobe CS5, except I had to install Java. And Microsoft Office 2011 ran okay, except Outlook hung a couple times and I had for force quit.

I reverted to Yosemite.

I'm going to do what Jon is doing: wait for 10.11.2 or 3
_________________________
Mac Pro dual-2.4 GHz, 10.13.6, 24 Gb RAM, 250 Gb Samsung EVO SSD/Velocity Solo PCIe card, 2x3Tb Seagate HD, 1x3Tb Hitachi HD, Dell 2408WFP; Canon PIXMA iX6550; CanoScan 8800F; MacBook Air 1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.3, 256 Gb SSD; Vodafone Home Hub/BT Wi-Fi Extender.

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