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#35511 - 08/14/15 07:07 AM explosion in china
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBPySnrjgMc

wow. then the guy backs up and WOW.

seeing that, you'd have to be thinking "was that nuclear?"
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#35591 - 08/17/15 04:31 PM Re: explosion in china [Re: Virtual1]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Dunno... They make a lot of fireworks in China. But this footage is far more ominous...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DDgZ5RkivEg

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#35601 - 08/18/15 11:59 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: slolerner]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
One the explosions was equal to 21 tons of TNT.

This event is just horrendous. Some company operates well outside the safety regulations and a bunch of innocent citizens and firefighters pay with their lives.
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#35605 - 08/18/15 01:52 PM Re: explosion in china [Re: ryck]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
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#35608 - 08/19/15 04:46 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: slolerner]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
so they blew up 700 tons of sodium cyanide and sent it into the air and water... well that's nice.

"officials said the air is still safe to breathe." "a 3km area around the blast has been evacuated". Well those two facts sound like they're in agreement...

Just the other day I read someone say that breathing the air in Bejing on a "bad day" for a day is like smoking 70 cigarettes in that same day. They're already redefining "air pollution", and have found a new way to top it by adding cyanide. wow.

and here's a good compilation of different people's cell phone recordings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhNkq3AltdE&spfreload=1

a few of them were close enough to get their windows blown out during filming
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#35618 - 08/19/15 08:07 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: Virtual1]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
so they blew up 700 tons of sodium cyanide and sent it into the air and water...

I seriously doubt that actually happened, but that has to be seen against the backdrop of an almost complete lack of reliable data so far. We ‘know’ that ‘700 tons’ of sodium cyanide was stored on the grounds where the explosions occurred, but that’s not automatically the same as ‘blown up’. If that were the case, I suspect we’d be hearing more about the fallout (literally) of that particular substance. Also remember in this context that there is reportedly a ‘virtually unscathed’ survivor who was inside a container very close to the center of at least one of the explosions. Of course, this preliminary assessment doesn’t detract from the seriousness of the disaster.
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#35620 - 08/19/15 08:40 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: alternaut]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
It's not clear how much information is going to be released. There was this not too long ago:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...h-clean-up.html

"Chinese officials have instructed the media not to sensationalise the accident, and fresh instructions sent to reporters yesterday said: "Do not report the accident too frequently. Report moving stories about people donating blood or taxi drivers not taking fares from victims. Do not investigate the cause of the accident."


Edited by slolerner (08/19/15 09:25 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarity

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#35621 - 08/19/15 09:09 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: slolerner]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: virtual1
"officials said the air is still safe to breathe." "a 3km area around the blast has been evacuated". Well those two facts sound like they're in agreement...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_G1cAWn6fWc

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#35625 - 08/19/15 11:12 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Before climbing too far up on a high horse about the events in Tianjin think about this. The reports from Tianjin sound very similar to the 2013 events in the small town of West, Texas when the local fertilizer factory blew up and 15 people were killed, more than 160 injured, and more than 150 buildings were damaged or destroyed including the West Elementary school next door to the fertilizer factory. Beware of throwing stones when you are in a glass house.
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#35627 - 08/19/15 12:01 PM Re: explosion in china [Re: alternaut]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: alternaut
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
so they blew up 700 tons of sodium cyanide and sent it into the air and water...

I seriously doubt that actually happened, but that has to be seen against the backdrop of an almost complete lack of reliable data so far. We ‘know’ that ‘700 tons’ of sodium cyanide was stored on the grounds where the explosions occurred,

Shipping containers got blown around like autumn leaves. Reporters are describing cars flying around like matchsticks. Anything near the center of a 20+ kilo-ton explosion won't be staying there. If there was NaCy stored there, it's not there anymore.

And looking at the acres of neatly parked burned out new cars, I'd say that anything combustable did get burned, after it got spread all over the area. So it's not just out of its package, it's in the air. The latest tests on local water show a tenfold increase in Cyanide levels after the explosion. Make no mistake, a lot of it got out.
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#35628 - 08/19/15 12:48 PM Re: explosion in china [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Before climbing too far up on a high horse about the events in Tianjin think about this. The reports from Tianjin sound very similar to the 2013 events in the small town of West, Texas when the local fertilizer factory blew up and 15 people were killed, more than 160 injured, and more than 150 buildings were damaged or destroyed including the West Elementary school next door to the fertilizer factory. Beware of throwing stones when you are in a glass house.

Eerily similar circumstances, I remember the West, TX event, but the more I read about how it happened, it was people living next to a large amount of explosive material with little to no regulation. According to investigations afterwards, it was entirely preventable.

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#35632 - 08/19/15 01:39 PM Re: explosion in china [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: slolerner
Eerily similar circumstances, I remember the West, TX event, but the more I read about how it happened, it was people living next to a large amount of explosive material with little to no regulation. According to investigations afterwards, it was entirely preventable.

As you say, "eerily similar". Even worse, there are hundreds of marginally regulated plants like that all over this country and rather than staffing up for more thorough inspection and regulation states and municipalities are cutting regulatory funding and reducing staffs. Apparently human lives are cheaper than regulating hazardous activities.
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#35636 - 08/19/15 09:38 PM Re: explosion in china [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
At least we got a true explanation, in the end, of exactly what happened in West. I don't know what we'll get from what happened in China, but, like you said, maybe it doesn't make any difference in the long run what the explanation is other than it shows respect for those who died to hold someone responsible. Fukushima, Bhopal, Chernobyl, you can put regulations in place but it just means if people died you broke the law, as Ryck stated. It comes down to the value put on life.

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#35642 - 08/20/15 07:41 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Yeah, all well and good (so to speak).
But, quite frankly, the grist for the fourth estate's mill is and generally always has been "horrible" news. The only news outlet that seems to have bucked the trend (on principle) is The Christian Science Monitor.

I suggest that in order for such news to hit print or the airwaves is that ca 0.1% of the country's population needs to have been killed or injured. Fifteen people blown up in China or 20 drowned during the monsoon in Bangladesh means nothing (to other than family and friends) and has little if any meaning half a world away — a lot like Twitter or Facebook or ....




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#35643 - 08/20/15 08:03 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: slolerner
At least we got a true explanation, in the end, of exactly what happened in West….<snip>…as Ryck stated. It comes down to the value put on life.

We got an explanation about West, but when it came time for the legislature to put its money where its mouth was they did nothing to increase funding or staffing of the regulatory agency. The only real change was the West City Council made changes to their zoning ordinances which closed the barn door after the horse had kicked the barn down.

The state legislature did approve the licensed open carry of firearms so we have a good idea of the value they place on human life.
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#35644 - 08/20/15 08:24 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: grelber]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: grelber
….the grist for the fourth estate's mill is and generally always has been "horrible" news.

The old media saw: "If it bleeds, it leads."

Originally Posted By: grelber
Fifteen people blown up in China or 20 drowned during the monsoon in Bangladesh means nothing (to other than family and friends) and has little if any meaning half a world away.

Maybe. There are lots of dreadful events that involve small numbers (e.g. a couple of dozen) that still move - such as bombed mosques. The shots of children in hospital with missing limbs, or a mother wailing over the loss of her family, are always hard to watch.

And 'being meaningful' doesn't have to involve death. I remember how ticked off I was with the visual reports of ISIS destroying ancient artifacts and centuries-old buildings. In those cases, nobody was killed.


Edited by ryck (08/20/15 08:26 AM)
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#35647 - 08/20/15 10:07 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: grelber]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Grelber
I suggest that in order for such news to hit print or the airwaves is that ca 0.1% of the country's population needs to have been killed or injured...

I heard something I thought was attributed to Bill Gates but can't find the reference. It was another use of "The Tyranny of Numbers," this time referring to how much attention is paid when lots of people die in a horrific way at once.

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#35648 - 08/20/15 10:18 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: ryck]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: grelber
Fifteen people blown up in China or 20 drowned during the monsoon in Bangladesh means nothing (to other than family and friends) and has little if any meaning half a world away.

Maybe. There are lots of dreadful events that involve small numbers (e.g. a couple of dozen) that still move - such as bombed mosques. The shots of children in hospital with missing limbs, or a mother wailing over the loss of her family, are always hard to watch.

Precisely. It's "sanctioned", almost prurient, voyeurism, like rubbernecking at gruesome accidents. Who needs it?!

Originally Posted By: ryck
And 'being meaningful' doesn't have to involve death. I remember how ticked off I was with the visual reports of ISIS destroying ancient artifacts and centuries-old buildings. In those cases, nobody was killed.

And before that the Talaban.

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#35658 - 08/20/15 03:06 PM Re: explosion in china [Re: grelber]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: grelber
Originally Posted By: ryck
And 'being meaningful' doesn't have to involve death. I remember how ticked off I was with the visual reports of ISIS destroying ancient artifacts and centuries-old buildings. In those cases, nobody was killed.

And before that the Talaban.

Sadly zealots of all stripes seem to feel the only way for them to prevail is to destroy everything from the past in the belief that will make true history to begin with them.
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#35684 - 08/22/15 06:21 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
In retrospect, if the Middle East had been well and truly nuked and turned into a sea of glass (with great potential for tourism in ca 10,000 years) at the time of the Seven Day War, all the current crap that's been going on there would never be.
(My advice to the powers-that-be wasn't followed then or during the several similar "wars" in the region after that. Worse luck.)

Under the current situation, if, say, a million Chinese soldiers were to be brought into the fray, with the cooperation and logistical support of other nations without such manpower, ISIS and its ilk would be gone in short order. But in all the conflicts of atrocity such solutions seem to be sadly lacking (or apparently even thought of). So much for global cooperation.

So Gaia continues her rout of vermin, both innocent and guilty.

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#35687 - 08/22/15 08:24 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: grelber]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: grelber
…ISIS and its ilk would be gone in short order.


Only to be replaced by the next incarnation of violent, disenfranchised people?

Until the population of any country has access to clean water, health care and education (for all) at the very least, there will always be dissident groups that arise to capitalize on someone else's disadvantages. That is true for the United States as well.
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#35689 - 08/22/15 10:07 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: Ira L]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Ira L
Only to be replaced by the next incarnation of violent, disenfranchised people?

Until the population of any country has access to clean water, health care and education (for all) at the very least, there will always be dissident groups that arise to capitalize on someone else's disadvantages. That is true for the United States as well.

Amen Ira. I would add to your list of what people need, the recognition and tolerance, even celebration, of cultural differences. Listening to the rantings of too many U.S. politicians today it is obvious they have not learned these lessons from history.
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#35690 - 08/22/15 11:17 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: Ira L]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: Ira L
Only to be replaced by the next incarnation of violent, disenfranchised people?
Until the population of any country has access to clean water, health care and education (for all) at the very least, there will always be dissident groups that arise to capitalize on someone else's disadvantages. That is true for the United States as well.

Indeed. Which is why the herd needs to be culled drastically.
And that might mean completely pulling the plug on the human experiment.

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#35715 - 08/24/15 08:32 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: joemikeb]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
I would add to your list of what people need, the recognition and tolerance, even celebration, of cultural differences.


I don't disagree with your addition to the list, but I wonder how much of intolerance is the result of frustration—frustration from the lack of health care, clean water, etc.—which leads to a search for scapegoats (i.e., intolerance).

Certainly "pulling the plug on the human experiment" is one solution, but I don't trust anyone else to make that decision for me, let alone who in the herd gets culled! And never forget, Mother Nature bats last.
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#35717 - 08/24/15 09:16 AM Re: explosion in china [Re: Ira L]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: Ira L
And never forget, Mother Nature bats last.

Exactly! tongue

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