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#35283 - 07/29/15 08:30 AM Dentist defines despicable
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
First the lion is lured out of a sanctuary using an animal carcass dragged behind a truck. Then a spotlight is put on the lion so that the "hunter" can wound it with a bow. The lion suffers forty hours of excruciating pain before being executed, skinned, and decapitated.

All so this dentist can brag about how "manly" he must be.


Edited by ryck (07/29/15 08:31 AM)
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#35287 - 07/29/15 09:01 AM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: ryck]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Despicable indeed. I have no objection to hunting and fishing for food, but doing either for sport is something that I no longer sanction (who determined that fish don't feel pain?). I fished when I was young but I stopped a long time ago. Since I can get food in other ways (even if someone else did the fishing), I see no reason to make a sport of it.

Necessity, yes. Sport, no.
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#35290 - 07/29/15 09:54 AM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: jchuzi]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Hoed the same row but took the extra step of becoming an 'ethical' vegetarian about 30 years ago.

Despicable doesn't begin to cover Cecil's ordeal.

Check out Minnesota dentist who killed Cecil the lion is on the lam after social media users issue threats against his life at
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/...gainst-his-life

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#35291 - 07/29/15 10:20 AM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Necessity, yes. Sport, no.

The type of hunting the dentist engaged in has nothing to do with sport and everything to do with ego gratification. I believe his claim that he was not aware — or more likely chose not to be aware — of the identity of this particular lion and was blindly following the lead of his guides. His so-called hunt was nothing more than an elaborate assassination scheme and I find it difficult to believe the hunter was unaware of that. But his judgement was probably blinded by his eagerness to kill a trophy animal or maybe just to kill. He could have created the same hunting experience at a zoo but would have been unlikely to have gotten away with it. From his remarks since his name came out, I doubt that he is capable of comprehending the point of the furor over his action. He appears to think the criticism is for killing someone's pet when in fact it was the tragic and completely unnecessary taking of the life of a magnificent creature of God.

Before criticizing the dentist too strongly take a look at deer hunting(???) practices in North America whether it is with a gun or a bow. Too often, there is little real hunting. Instead the deer are chummed up to feeders throughout the entire year and elaborate hunting stands are set up well before the season opens so deer become accustomed to seeing them. Hunting in this scenario consists of getting to the blind and waiting for the deer to come up to the proffered feed and then assassinating the pick of the lot. More akin to slaughtering sheep in an abattoir than it is to real hunting.

I understand and enjoy real hunting. I used to hunt quail, doves, pheasants, and water fowl taking great pleasure in the companionship of my fellow hunters; walking many miles through country that I loved; being in the outdoors; observing the wild hunters (coyotes, bobcats, hawks, owls, etc.); watching good dogs work; and hopefully bringing home some game for the table. Although it was rewarded later at the diner table, killing the birds was the least enjoyable part of the experience. With the reduction in quail population due to climate changes, south American fire ant invasion, loss of habitat, and hunting pressure, I put my shotgun away and haven't taken it out for many years. Now I limit my wildlife activities to catching and release fly fishing for trout and believe me the odds are greatly in the trout's favor.
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#35292 - 07/29/15 12:02 PM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: joemikeb]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Now I limit my wildlife activities to catching and release fly fishing for trout and believe me the odds are greatly in the trout's favor.
I have wondered if that's really true. I don't know of any studies that track the survival rate of the released trout. If anyone does, please post.
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#35297 - 07/29/15 04:20 PM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: jchuzi]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Now I limit my wildlife activities to catching and release fly fishing for trout and believe me the odds are greatly in the trout's favor.
I have wondered if that's really true. I don't know of any studies that track the survival rate of the released trout. If anyone does, please post.

The survival rate of eaten trout is nil. So anything else is better than that. tongue

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#35298 - 07/29/15 05:22 PM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
I don't know of any studies that track the survival rate of the released trout. If anyone does, please post.

You should find this interesting.


Edited by ryck (07/29/15 05:24 PM)
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#35299 - 07/30/15 01:43 AM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: ryck]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Very interesting, ryck. The section about methods of handling captured fish is most enlightening. I would hope that anglers would read that and follow those procedures.
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#35300 - 07/30/15 04:43 AM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
I'm glad you enjoyed it, Jon.
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ryck

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#35301 - 07/30/15 04:50 AM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: joemikeb]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Now I limit my wildlife activities to catching and release fly fishing for trout and believe me the odds are greatly in the trout's favor.

I first thought you meant that your fly-fishing skills might not be equal to the trouts' wiles and then I read in the article that, after release, it gets to be even more of a challenge: the fish learn "hook avoidance". Well, at least you're getting lots of healthy fresh air. wink


Edited by ryck (07/30/15 04:52 AM)
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#35304 - 07/30/15 05:06 AM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: ryck]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
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#35305 - 07/30/15 05:16 AM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: ryck]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Now I limit my wildlife activities to catching and release fly fishing for trout and believe me the odds are greatly in the trout's favor.

I first thought you meant that your fly-fishing skills might not be equal to the trouts' wiles and then I read in the article that, after release, it gets to be even more of a challenge: the fish learn "hook avoidance". Well, at least you're getting lots of healthy fresh air. wink


They didn't really have much to say about "handling" short of that the length of time affected mortality, which seems pretty obvious.

As for "hook avoidance", I would postulate the opposite is true. With trout in particular, learning really is irrelevant, as they are only going to be there once, and aren't going to pass on anything they've learned to the next generation. The only long-term effect is evolutionary pressure. Under catch-and-keep, a hooked fish is a dead fish, and passes no "didn't avoid the hook" genes, and that favors the next generation to have less of that, becoming better over time at avoiding being caught. OTOH, when practicing catch-and-release, a hooked fish gets a second (and maybe third or fourth?) chance at a survival, to breed and pass on that same "didn't avoid the hook" gene to the next generation. There will be a mortally rate, which will still affect it, but C&R greatly slows the effect.

The result is that practicing C&R not only helps maintain/raise stock population and boosts breeding potential (in the presence of adequate resources for population growth of course) but also slows the population's adaptation and increase in difficulty of getting a fish to bite. IE it keeps fishing fun for the fishermen.

So C&R is a win-win for everyone really. The fish win, and so do the fishers.
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#35307 - 07/30/15 05:56 AM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley

So, the hunter is now the hunted. I wonder how he likes it? And, I wonder what effect this will have on his business and, subsequently, his ability to fork over $50,000 occasionally to satisfy his strange lust.


Edited by ryck (07/30/15 06:01 AM)
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#35311 - 07/30/15 01:41 PM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: ryck]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
HE is going to have a lot more trouble coming up with the $50,000. It appears he will be forced to quit his practice due to a lack of patients.
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#35312 - 07/31/15 03:33 AM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I wouldn't be surprised if Ted Nugent's take on the matter became a rallying cry and this guy's office was flooded with hunters and other gun advocates who'll be pleased as punch to duke it out with the PETA activists across the street.

(In Response to Lion Killing, NRA Advocates Arming Animals)
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#35313 - 07/31/15 06:12 AM Re: Dentist defines despicable [Re: joemikeb]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
It appears he will be forced to quit his practice due to a lack of patients.

And his problems may not end there. Thank you to the American government for acting on the matter, and thank you to the more than 100,000 citizens who signed the petition asking for extradition.
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#35314 - 07/31/15 07:41 AM he's no stranger to poaching [Re: ryck]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Quote:
According to U.S. court records, Palmer pleaded guilty in 2008 to making false statements to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service about a black bear he fatally shot in western Wisconsin. Palmer had a permit to hunt but shot the animal outside the authorized zone in 2006, then tried to pass it off as being killed elsewhere, according to court documents. He was given one year probation and fined nearly $3,000.

This isn't his first time around the block.
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#35317 - 07/31/15 05:30 PM Re: he's no stranger to poaching [Re: Virtual1]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Add to that a landowner whose hunt/kill quota for the year did not include even one lion and a "great white hunter" who didn't recognize the most famous lion in Zimbabwe, and it all stinks worse than a decomposing carcass.
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#35352 - 08/02/15 03:59 PM Re: he's no stranger to poaching [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Here's another one: Zimbabwe seeks second American 'lion killer'. I know, I'm not a hunter, but I fail to see the point of killing an animal if you don't intend to eat it.
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#35353 - 08/02/15 04:55 PM Re: he's no stranger to poaching [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
The taste of the satisfaction of seeing the trophy on your wall is better than the taste of the meat.
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#35354 - 08/02/15 05:08 PM Re: he's no stranger to poaching [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
A trophy on the wall? The hunter just killed a sentient being for no reason other than a demand of his testosterone. Don't get me wrong; I'm not an animal rights activist, but I can't find any rational reason to do this. Life is hard enough without pointless killings. Humans do the same to other humans, of course, but that is not a rationale.

I know that I'm ranting, but I can't condone this type of thing. Catch and release may be one way of getting around it, but you can only do this with fish, not big game.

I suppose that, at my age (70), I feel the burdens of mortality and I object to killing.
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#35355 - 08/02/15 05:59 PM Re: he's no stranger to poaching [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
I know that I'm ranting, but I can't condone this type of thing. Catch and release may be one way of getting around it, but you can only do this with fish, not big game.

I suppose that, at my age (70), I feel the burdens of mortality and I object to killing.

Well youngster it catches up with a lot (most?) of us as we mature — ranting that is. smile

At my age (76) I find I can get away with some ranting — at least when my wife is out of the room. crazy

The only game I have even thought needed killing in the last several years were politicians, but that wouldn't be hunting. Oops, there I go ranting again. tongue
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#35356 - 08/03/15 12:00 AM Re: he's no stranger to poaching [Re: jchuzi]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
A trophy on the wall? The hunter just killed a sentient being for no reason other than a demand of his testosterone.


I will admit when I first read about the hunter who killed Cecil the lion, my very first response was "man, he must have a really small penis."
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#35359 - 08/03/15 10:14 AM Re: he's no stranger to poaching [Re: tacit]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Chalk one up for tacit! smile
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#35361 - 08/03/15 11:58 AM Re: he's no stranger to poaching [Re: tacit]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: tacit
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
A trophy on the wall? The hunter just killed a sentient being for no reason other than a demand of his testosterone.

I will admit when I first read about the hunter who killed Cecil the lion, my very first response was "man, he must have a really small penis."

In which case he apparently took the wrong trophy. tongue blush

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