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#34393 - 05/21/15 09:02 AM don't trust the cloud
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State


Edited by cyn (05/21/15 10:40 AM)
Edit Reason: Topic moved from the Networking forum to the Lounge.
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#34398 - 05/21/15 12:13 PM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: jchuzi]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Cloud bad. Especially if you desire privacy and security and especially if you inevitably use it for mobile devices.

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#34400 - 05/21/15 12:54 PM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
A developer has sent me several advance versions of his app via the cloud, and I've experienced daytime d/l speeds of only 40-50 kbps...totally unacceptable! frown (Late night d/l speed has been up to par.)
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#34402 - 05/21/15 02:26 PM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: jchuzi]
dkmarsh Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

The linked story is about one system's unplanned downtime, not about the security, or lack thereof, of the entire medium of which it is an example. It therefore seems to me that the thread title you've selected is kind of disingenuous, unless you'd also say, "don't trust the highways" if, say, the New York Thruway were crawling bumper-to-bumper because of an overturned tractor-trailer.
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#34403 - 05/21/15 04:44 PM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: dkmarsh]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Attached to the original post is:
Edited by cyn (2015-05-21 12:40:30)
Edit Reason: Topic moved from the Networking forum to the Lounge.

That move doesn't seem to have completed properly, with responses appearing in both places and reply counts behaving strangely in both places.

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#34404 - 05/21/15 04:56 PM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Once I clicked on the original post in the Forums list - on the left side of the page, not the right - I was rid of the red.


Edited by artie505 (05/21/15 04:58 PM)
Edit Reason: Better wording
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#34405 - 05/21/15 05:06 PM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Once I clicked on the original post in the Forums list - on the left side of the page, not the right - I was rid of the red.

Right as rain. (Now that you mention it, that issue arose no too long ago, and you had the right answer then too. So much for my long-term memory storage.)

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#34406 - 05/21/15 05:13 PM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
So much for my long-term memory storage.

Flash memory, apparently. grin

Edit: Volatile memory, actually, but "flash" has a better ring to it.


Edited by artie505 (05/21/15 05:41 PM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#34410 - 05/22/15 01:49 AM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: dkmarsh]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

The linked story is about one system's unplanned downtime, not about the security, or lack thereof, of the entire medium of which it is an example. It therefore seems to me that the thread title you've selected is kind of disingenuous, unless you'd also say, "don't trust the highways" if, say, the New York Thruway were crawling bumper-to-bumper because of an overturned tractor-trailer.
Security is not the sole issue (although that could be a concern also). The problem is the reliability of the cloud services and the potential for loss of data. If I store all my data in the cloud (and that's not a wise thing for anyone to do), I have to be able to retrieve it when needed. If my home computer fails (for whatever reason), my access to the cloud is gone anyway.

I stand by the title of the thread. If you're not sure that you can access your data, the cloud can't be trusted.
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OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#34411 - 05/22/15 02:08 AM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: jchuzi]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
If you're not sure that you can access your data, the cloud can't be trusted.

I'm sure that anyone can access my data; that's why the cloud can't be trusted.

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#34412 - 05/22/15 02:11 AM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Quote:
So much for my long-term memory storage.

Flash memory, apparently. grin
Edit: Volatile memory, actually, but "flash" has a better ring to it.

Perhaps the better analogy is along the lines of the discussion of SSD vulnerability (in Peripherals forum) with loss of memory being associated with "aging": sometimes there, sometimes not; sometimes recoverable, sometimes not — until totally not.

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#34413 - 05/22/15 02:37 AM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: jchuzi]
dkmarsh Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
If my home computer fails (for whatever reason), my access to the cloud is gone anyway.

If your home computer fails, then your access to your data is gone, but I don't see you saying, "I don't trust my computer!"

More importantly, though, in the general case, your statement is fundamentally incorrect. If my home computer fails, I can access data stored on iCloud servers (or Dropbox servers, or OneDrive servers, ad nauseam) via another computer or a mobile device. That's half the purpose of cloud computing in the first place.

Storing data in any location to the exclusion of all others is "not a wise thing for anyone to do," but the occasional failure of cloud access is no more an indictment of the cloud as a storage medium than the occasional failure of a hard drive is of local storage as a medium.
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#34417 - 05/22/15 11:24 AM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: grelber]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: grelber
Perhaps the better analogy is along the lines of the discussion of SSD vulnerability (in Peripherals forum) with loss of memory being associated with "aging": sometimes there, sometimes not; sometimes recoverable, sometimes not — until totally not.

There is no absolutely reliable digital read/write data storage technology. Rotating magnetic media (hard disk drives, floppies, Zip drives), SSDs, thumb drives, SD cards, optical media (CDs/DVDs), magnetic tape, etc. all are subject to aging and data deterioration and loss over time. For that matter even hieroglyphs carved in stone are subject to weathering and mechanical damage from forces of nature and human action (or inaction) and therefore sometimes recoverable and sometimes not.

At least with the cloud — regardless of who the cloud provider is — the data is backed up far better than any individual could possibly afford. For example Apple has at least three multi-billion dollar data centers scattered around the country each backing up the others. How many widely distributed data sites do you have for your backups each with redundant drives and multiple independent power supplies? In your case you are limited to accessing your data from a single location, your home. With the cloud that limit goes away. On my recent trip to Walt Disney World in Florida, I had no problem accessing the data I have stored in the cloud using either my iPhone or iPad not to mention my grandson's MacBook Pro and the library at his high school. Because of some network issues unrelated to iCloud or my iDevices there were brief periods where I could not access my data in the cloud, but stepping outside for a WiFi connection took a lot less time and money than a 1,500 mile airline trip or drive in a car. Can you say that about your data storage scheme?

Any good data storage plan involves a variety of data storage devices, in a variety of locations, and in general the more remote the data store is the slower the access. Dropbox, iCloud, etc. are actually a huge improvement in ease of access and speed of access than we enjoyed in the early days. At one time providing limestone caves for the storage of magnetic tape reels was a growth industry. Access time was measured in days if not weeks and you don't want to even think about the cost. Of course in those days an IBM 370 mainframe might not have as much RAM or attached data storage as my Mac mini does now.


Edited by joemikeb (05/22/15 11:28 AM)
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#34423 - 05/23/15 02:03 AM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Not sure how that relates to artie's and my banter about the quality of my long-term memory (even if it is in one location). confused
The Final Cut (2004), starring Robin Williams in a rather less than comedic role, suggests another possibility:
"Set in a world where implanted microchips record all moments of one's life. The chips are removed upon death and images are edited by a cutter into a highlight reel for loved ones who want to remember the deceased." [DVD blurb]

On the other hand, as noted before, I definitely do not want any of my data available to the world in general. I'd rather lost it than have somebody hack into it and potentially be plunged into scenarios which I would rather not like to contemplate.

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#34428 - 05/23/15 09:55 AM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: grelber]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: grelber
On the other hand, as noted before, I definitely do not want any of my data available to the world in general. I'd rather lost it than have somebody hack into it and potentially be plunged into scenarios which I would rather not like to contemplate.

Aren't you setting yourself up as a target now that you have revealed you have something to hide? grin
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#34430 - 05/23/15 04:15 PM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Aren't you setting yourself up as a target now that you have revealed you have something to hide? grin

Fire away. You'll find that the bull's eye is a mirage. grin smirk

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#34535 - 06/02/15 09:24 AM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: joemikeb]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#34536 - 06/02/15 09:54 AM Re: don't trust the cloud [Re: jchuzi]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
iCloud, iTunes again hit with global outages impacting important services


http://www.apple.com/support/systemstatus/

Looks like it lasted about one hour. It's all green now.
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#34537 - 06/02/15 10:19 AM Re: don't trust the highways [Re: jchuzi]
dkmarsh Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
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