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#34079 - 05/01/15 12:15 PM Switching to IMAP mail
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
So, if anyone has not been following my Google Mail saga, I want to stop relaying our mail inboxes to Google Mail. Google is only checking our server every few minutes and the store is getting batches of email at a time.

Requirements: We have five active mailboxes for @name of store. Everyone is on a Mac. The owner's assistant has to see the mail from all five boxes at once. One of those boxes is the owners box. The owner only wants to see her inbox as well as a private, personal aol account without looking in two places. That arrangement would also work well for her husband, who has an @storename as well as an aol box.

We have had all mailboxes forwarding into a Google mail address and separating into folders per email address and when you went to the inbox could see them all. That part was good. The owner had a separate Google mail address and the aol personal account as well as the name@storename address were forwarding to that second account. That is all the owner needs. What I did a few days ago was to set things up so outgoing messages from the store were routed back through our server so I would capture outgoing as well as incoming mail. The owner thinks if we get about a month of complete mailboxes on our server, we can migrate and will not need any detritus in Google Mail.

They are using google calendar, other things like that. So, advise, please.


Edited by slolerner (05/01/15 12:19 PM)
Edit Reason: Mistake

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#34089 - 05/02/15 01:23 PM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: slolerner
So, if anyone has not been following my Google Mail saga, I want to stop relaying our mail inboxes to Google Mail. Google is only checking our server every few minutes and the store is getting batches of email at a time.

Even with IMAP there is still the issue of the refresh rate you have set in Mail > Preferences > General. The options range from automatic through one minute and additional time increments up to manual. If you want to even out the apparent flow of messages into your computer you want to choose 1 minute. This is not without cost, it will significantly increase network and internet traffic and in the case of laptops it will eat batteries.

Originally Posted By: slolerner
Requirements: We have five active mailboxes for @name of store. Everyone is on a Mac. The owner's assistant has to see the mail from all five boxes at once. One of those boxes is the owners box. The owner only wants to see her inbox as well as a private, personal aol account without looking in two places. That arrangement would also work well for her husband, who has an @storename as well as an aol box.

Assuming the owner's Mac is setup to directly access the @name of store accounts and does not go through aggregating the mail in Google mail and she owner ONLY wants to see her inbox and personal account in Mail > Preferences > Accounts simply deactivate the other accounts. Then her aggregate mailbox will only show her two email accounts. Should she decide to view the other accounts all she has to do is temporarily activate the other accounts. Of course that would work for her husband as well. By the same token the owner's @name of store account could either be deactivated or deleted on the other Macs so they would not see messages directed to her unless she chose to forward them.

Originally Posted By: slolerner
We have had all mailboxes forwarding into a Google mail address and separating into folders per email address and when you went to the inbox could see them all. That part was good. The owner had a separate Google mail address and the aol personal account as well as the name@storename address were forwarding to that second account. That is all the owner needs. What I did a few days ago was to set things up so outgoing messages from the store were routed back through our server so I would capture outgoing as well as incoming mail. The owner thinks if we get about a month of complete mailboxes on our server, we can migrate and will not need any detritus in Google Mail.

Once again assuming your @store name acounts I have no idea what the volume of mail is, but you should be able to move all of the messages from the various Google mailboxes to the individual @store name by the simple expedient of drag and drop in Apple Mail. I move messages from one account to another like that from time to time without difficulty.

You might also want to consider using a mail archive utility to move "historical" emails to a database on one of the store Macs rather than clogging up the iMap accounts with years old emails that are seldom ever referenced.

Originally Posted By: slolerner
They are using google calendar, other things like that. So, advise, please.

Once again assuming the store is using a reasonable recent version of OS X an iCloud calendar, and a Contacts database could be shared among all five computers. You can even have multiple iCloud calendars each with different access permissions. For example the owner might have a personal calendar that only she and her assistant could update but everyone else could view and another calendar that everyone could see and update.

What you are describing is an ideal situation for a Mac mini running say Yosemite and Apple server. You could even use it to distribute software updates to the other computers. Once it was set up it wouldn't need to have a monitor, mouse, or keyboard and could be completely controlled from another Mac, iPad, or even iPhone although the smaller screen on the iPhone makes that rather painful. I use a five year old Mac mini for that very purpose around here. It even host a local web site and shared files for collaborative work. Sort of like having my own personal iCloud except that my iOS devices do not connect to it.
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#34099 - 05/03/15 09:36 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Thanks for taking the time, joemike. One thing I was not clear about is when I said 'our mail server' I am referring to the mailboxes that are actually sitting at the place where the domain is hosted. The storage there is free, unlimited, and regularly backed up. So, there is no server in the store yet, although I have recommended it often. Even if they get one for inventory tracking which includes a large photo database in Lightroom, I probably will keep using the free space on the web hosting servers.

That's ok, right? I still import the mailboxes from there as IMAP into MacMail. My only concern is I do not want to have to set up the mail on each new devise as they buy them. Is there a simple instruction or script I can give them that imports each mailbox? I have them set on the server with the same password for simplicity and then a different password for Google Mail access. That is why the owner has the second Google account, password issues because that Google account includes her forwarded personal aol mail.

I was thinking that the owner and her husband may just be able to use their aol accounts and maybe I could put the forward from the mail server to their aol accounts. If I can, I don't know if it' better to reroute those to AppleMail, it may create the issue I am trying to avoid, having to be involved each time they get a new iPad, IPhone, etc.
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#34101 - 05/03/15 09:59 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
If all the Macs are sharing a single Apple ID and you have System Preferences > iCloud > Mail checked together with System Preferences > iCloud > iCloud Drive > mail checked then all of the various accounts will be automatically and transparently set up on each device. The only thing you might have to do on the individual device is deactivate some of the email accounts. (Don't delete an account setup on any of the devices though as that will delete the account setup on iCloud and all of the other devices sharing that iCloud account.) No script is necessary. The upside is if you change the email setup on one device the change will automatically be reflected on all of the devices — that upside could also be a downside in certain situations. NOTE: If you have Keychain checked in the iCloud settings then all the devices have access to all the passwords as well.

That will work with any email account on any of the devices regardless of whether the email provider is Google, Apple, Yahoo, AOL, Verizon, or any other email provider in the world.
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#34124 - 05/04/15 03:09 PM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
They are not using the iCloud for mail right now and no one has ever set up MacMail on their computer. Would they have to buy extra space on the iCloud or is that just the traffic cop? The mail is physically still on their web host servers, right?

Also, just to be clear, the owner had a second Google account because she is receiving the @storename account bus ALSO is receiving the PRIVATE @aol account, which others do not have access to. The second Google account gave her a different password to log in than the others and then saw her store account and aol account at once. My thought is set a forwarder at the web hosting mailboxes to send her @storename account to aol and have her just sign into aol for her mail. I welcome your thoughts if there is a better or less 'haphazard' way to do it. R


Edited by slolerner (05/04/15 03:17 PM)
Edit Reason: More

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#34127 - 05/04/15 07:37 PM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: slolerner]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Oh, maybe she can't have her @storename mail forwarded to aol because if she replies it will come from her private aol address.

Seems she will have to import that into MacMail manually per devise?


Edited by slolerner (05/04/15 07:39 PM)
Edit Reason: More

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#34135 - 05/05/15 09:19 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: slolerner
They are not using the iCloud for mail right now and no one has ever set up MacMail on their computer.
Would they have to buy extra space on the iCloud or is that just the traffic cop? The mail is physically still on their web host servers, right?[/quote]
I assume when you say, "no one has ever set up MacMail on their computer" you mean no one is using an @me.com, @icloud.com, or @mac.com email account. That was not what I was talking about. If you have OS X or iOS devices setup for iCloud it means the setup data in Apple's Mail app can be shared between all of the various devices no matter who the email provider is whether it be @store-name.com, @Google.com, @Yahoo.com, @AOL.com, or whatever. Likewise if you have iCloud Keychain turned on, all of the various devices will have all of the account or login passwords any of them have. That does not mean each of them will have the same login password on their computer or iOS device.
Originally Posted By: slolerner
Would they have to buy extra space on the iCloud or is that just the traffic cop? The mail is physically still on their web host servers, right?

Again do not confuse setup information with email messages. Even if they were using an @icloud.com email account that is separate from iCloud disk storage. Whether or not they will need additional iCloud disk storage would be entirely dependent on what they choose to put on the iCloud Disk which is a separate entity from Mail.

There would be no particular benefit or need to have their email forwarded to or received from an Apple email account. The Mail application can retrieve the messages directly from the @store-name IMAP server.

Originally Posted By: slolerner
Also, just to be clear, the owner had a second Google account because she is receiving the @storename account bus ALSO is receiving the PRIVATE @aol account, which others do not have access to. The second Google account gave her a different password to log in than the others and then saw her store account and aol account at once. My thought is set a forwarder at the web hosting mailboxes to send her @storename account to aol and have her just sign into aol for her mail. I welcome your thoughts if there is a better or less 'haphazard' way to do it. R

Let me start by saying I am a bit allergic to forwarders for multiple reasons:
  • They add an additional point of failure in the email chain
  • They slow communications down because the message has to be transmitted at least three times instead of the normal two.
  • they add unnecessary complexity.

I understand why the AOL account, but I don't understand why the owner could not use a separate @store-name account. Assuming each @store-name account has a unique password the only times the owner would need to enter the access password would be when the private account was setup on HER devices or when she is accessing mail in an internet cafe.
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#34217 - 05/11/15 06:14 PM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Know anything about Google Apps mail?

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#34231 - 05/12/15 06:41 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I have a Google Apps Mail account, but I am not the administrator and did not set it up. As far as I can tell it is primarily an overlay on Google Mail that permits you to login with a Google Apps userid and password. Other than that, it seems to be pretty straight-forward Google Mail.
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#34233 - 05/12/15 07:09 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
It means that Google is actually hosting the mail. The mailboxes live on Google. That means that it is not like now where the mail is forwarded to Google. It is $5 per mailbox per month. I'm not keen on it, I objected to the Google set up they have when they first wanted it and wanted to use MacMail then. I found out the other day that they started using the Google account name that imports the mail, storename@gmail.com, because they gave up on the mail import that has the mailbox@storename.com. That complicates things because I finally got rid of the storename@aol.com they started with and that took a year of swapping the 'reply to' address on all incoming mail and finally asking stragglers to change their address book.

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#34237 - 05/12/15 08:22 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Don't you wish people who are not particularly computer/internet literate would ask for help from someone who knows what they are doing? Even better don't you wish they would listen to someone who knows what they are doing? And I don't mean the Google tech or sales desks.

If you would still like to migrate them to an iCloud account or even an @storename account the Google mail account could be configured to forward the messages to the other account. I have an account with a my-name.com URL and it supports an unlimited number of IMAP name@my-name.com accounts and it costs less than $25 a year for everything including web hosting (if I ever get around to setting up the site).
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#34242 - 05/12/15 10:42 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Quote:
Even better don't you wish they would listen to someone who knows what they are doing? And I don't mean the Google tech or sales desks.

Yes. The fetch is the problem. If I set it up with iCloud, would they still have to wait for it to fetch?

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#34254 - 05/13/15 06:49 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
There wilo always be at least some "fetch" lag but that is configurable within Mail. You could eliminate the fetch lag by foregoing the use of an email client and having everyone logon to the webmai linterface through the browser.
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#34259 - 05/13/15 07:54 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
It doesn't seem possible to log into more than one email account with the browsers the provider offers. Is there one you can suggest where they could log into a browser with several email accounts coming up at once?

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#34261 - 05/13/15 09:22 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
You could open multiple tabs or windows in almost any browser, but they would only display one account logon in each window. That is a limit of the webmail software and has noting to do with the bowser used to acceess the webmail interface.

To have everrything on one webmail screen would lead you back to Google Mail and you would still have the fetch delay.


Edited by joemikeb (05/13/15 09:25 AM)
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#34291 - 05/14/15 06:48 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Ok, so right now I brought one of their accounts onto my iPad and it is working fine, setting it up was not hard. Two questions and then hopefully I can stop bothering you with this one!

Can an aol account be imported into MacMail?

Is it as simple on newer Mac OSs as it is on my iPad to set up a user account in MacMail? Snowy asks for ports, etc. All I had to put in was the basics and the secure server address for the @storename account.

Thanks much Joemike. Now I think I will have the info I need for them to choose.

Note: the owner has a longstanding personal aol address. I just want her to be able to see an incoming MacMail box that includes both accounts. The aol Mail has to have a reply to the aol address.


Edited by slolerner (05/14/15 07:00 AM)
Edit Reason: More
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Mid 2010 MacBook Pro 13"
2.4GHz, 750GB SATA HD, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.7.5
1 HDX1500 2TB Ext.HD, 2 HDX1500 1TB Ext.HD
HP Laserjet 6MP printing postscript via 10/100 Intel print server
Netgear WN2500RP Range Extender (Ira rocks!)
Linksys WRT1900AC Wireless Router
Brother MFC-9340CDW Color Laser
iPad Air

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#34298 - 05/14/15 10:08 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: slolerner]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
AOL e-mail accounts are one of the default options on Apple Mail, so setting one up should be as simple as what you did on the iPad; i.e., provide the account user name (xxxx@aol.com) and password.
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#34303 - 05/15/15 05:48 AM Re: Switching to IMAP mail [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
When you have multiple accounts in Apple mail you will have a single Inbox that includes all active email accounts, or by clicking the reveal arrow next to Inbox you can reveal the individual inboxes. Mail is really very flexible and allows lots of mix and match options. As Ira said setup is the same as on iOS devices. In fact with iCloud you can share the setup between OS X mail and your iOS devices.


Edited by joemikeb (05/15/15 06:49 AM)
Edit Reason: Spell Checker :(
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