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#33920 - 04/22/15 03:44 AM TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x)
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
I have TTPro v7.0.7, but have never had need of it, though I have occasionally used it.

I know each case/user is different, but from your experience, are there compelling new features/benefits that suggest buying the new version? Or, do you think v8 is merely a repackaging of v7? confused
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Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#33923 - 04/22/15 03:57 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: Pendragon]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I'm in the same boat. For some ideas, read the User Discussions at MacUpdate.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#33927 - 04/22/15 07:58 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: Pendragon]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
The are three significant new features in TTP 8:
  1. Full Yosemite compatibility which is not guaranteed in older releases of TTP. The support of Fusion drives appears to be improved improved as well. NOTE: defragmenting files or volumes on Fusion drives is not recommended by pretty much everyone including Micromat.
  2. The inclusion of the ability to create a ProToGo boot device on a disk drive or thumb drive. ProToGo used to be a separate and rather expensive product that shipped on a Firewire thumb drive. In this iteration ProToGo assumes the user will provide their own external device and that the installation will be made using the OS X version on the Mac to be supported (back to the issue of having a version that will boot a given computer) There are three levels of OS X functionality that can be installed on the ProToGo device, so you can install other repair utilities other than TTP 8. It can be quite handy for making repairs on the regular boot drive.
  3. The addition of a fans test and a sensors test. While I am unlikely to use either prophylactically they might come in handy if you were having hardware issues.
Given the potential for harm that can be and has been done by incompatible volume repair utilities my choice would be to either upgrade to TTP 8 or uninstall TTP 7 or earlier.

Full Disclosure I am a beta tester for Micromat but I receive no financial remuneration other than a free upgrade to the version being tested and yes I have TTP 8 and I have tested it thoroughly.


Edited by alternaut (04/22/15 10:14 AM)
Edit Reason: Fixed markup
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#33928 - 04/22/15 08:25 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
[b]Full Disclosure[/b] I am a beta tester for Micromat but I receive no financial remuneration other than a free upgrade to the version being tested and yes I have TTP 8 and I have tested it thoroughly.
I was going to query why underlined and bolded "Full Disclosure" received an underline but was not bold. However, in viewing under Quote, it's because it leads with [b[u]] rather than [b][u].

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#33930 - 04/22/15 08:54 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: joemikeb]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
I think the first point above—full compatibility with 10.10.x—is the key issue for most people with TTP 7. If you are not running Yosemite the other factors may not be too compelling. Also, the upgrade price of (if I recall correctly) of about $40 is not unreasonable for a very good tool of this nature.
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On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#33933 - 04/22/15 11:30 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: Ira L]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Many thanks fine friends. Y'all make a convincing argument, ergo I downloaded & installed v8.1 (without issue).

I don't (yet) have a thumb drive or such that I'm ready to erase/dedicate to Protogo, so as yet, I have no comments on that.

Re all the other features, I suspect I won't need them-- until I do. shocked
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Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#33935 - 04/22/15 12:39 PM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: Pendragon]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Pendragon
I don't (yet) have a thumb drive or such that I'm ready to erase/dedicate to Protogo, so as yet, I have no comments on that.

Booting from most thumb drives — even USB 3 thumb drives — is painfully slow. I use an old 250 GB HD in a USB 3 OWC Express enclosure and it is a lot faster than any thumb drive I have tried. Besides that with 250 GB of space there is enough room for multiple boot volumes for multiple computers. OWC also has USB 3 thumb/SSD drives in 120 GB and 240 GB sizes but my repurposed HD cost me 10% of what the 240 GB model costs. Don't know how fast those are either.
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#33936 - 04/22/15 01:27 PM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: joemikeb]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Pendragon
I don't (yet) have a thumb drive or such that I'm ready to erase/dedicate to Protogo, so as yet, I have no comments on that.

Booting from most thumb drives — even USB 3 thumb drives — is painfully slow. I use an old 250 GB HD in a USB 3 OWC Express enclosure and it is a lot faster than any thumb drive I have tried. Besides that with 250 GB of space there is enough room for multiple boot volumes for multiple computers. OWC also has USB 3 thumb/SSD drives in 120 GB and 240 GB sizes but my repurposed HD cost me 10% of what the 240 GB model costs. Don't know how fast those are either.


I have an old 100 GB, FW HD in an OWC enclosure that may be put to task, but I don't know what Profile(s) to use. Have you thoughts on that?
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Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#33938 - 04/22/15 04:41 PM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: Pendragon]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: Pendragon
Many thanks fine friends. Y'all make a convincing argument, ergo I downloaded & installed v8.1 (without issue).
I would like to do this too, but Micromat's website is almost totally unresponsive as I write this. I was able to get the upgrade version into my shopping cart but clicking Check Out is a dead end. I'll try again tomorrow. Has anyone else had this issue? If necessary, I'll phone Micromat. Getting to the Contact page was slow also.

If MMT3 is reading this, maybe he can respond.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#33939 - 04/22/15 04:55 PM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I visited Micromat's ( blush ) website a little while ago, and it was veeery slow to respond.


Edited by artie505 (04/22/15 04:57 PM)
Edit Reason: Oops!
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#33951 - 04/23/15 08:30 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
The Micromat website seems to be working normally. I just purchased, downloaded, and installed TTP 8 without a hitch.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#33953 - 04/23/15 09:56 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: Pendragon]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Pendragon
I have an old 100 GB, FW HD in an OWC enclosure that may be put to task, but I don't know what Profile(s) to use. Have you thoughts on that?

It all depends on what you want to have on the ProToGo.
  1. The OS X Recovery HD profile — This configuration will boot all Intel-based Macintosh models capable of running the version of Mac OS X installed on this Mac. No Finder access is available with this profile. This is a good choice for someone supporting multiple Macs running OS X 10.7 or later. It is essentially the same as booting from the Recovery Drive but will work where the HD has completely packed it in.
  2. Mac OS X Full Copy profile — This configuration will create a bootable Mac OS X operating system on the destination device based on the currently running Mac OS X installation. This will be a full copy of that Mac OS X installation. I haven't tested this one, but this could be a solution for anyone who longs for the "good old days" when "retail" OS X came on a DVD. This requires 205.53 GB and is too big for your HD.
  3. Mac OS X Basic Profile — This configuration will create a bootable Mac OS X operating system onto the destination device based on the currently running Mac OS X installation. Finder access is available with this profile. This is the one I use for a general repair ProToGo because I can run other disk repair utilities such as Drive Genius 4 from it.
  4. Mac OS X Minimal Profile — This configuration will boot all Intel-based Macintosh models capable of running the version of Mac OS X installed on this Mac. No Finder access is available with this profile. Basically this configuration is enough to run TTP 8 and Disk Utility.
Each of these profiles can be edited to contain applications of your own choosing or you can create your own customized ProToGo profiles with whatever set of OS X functionality you desire and whatever applications you desire. CAUTION: If you choose any OS X configuration other than Full OS X, operating system APIs essential to the application may not be included. So test thoroughly before the ProToGo is needed in an emergency situation.
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#33954 - 04/23/15 10:24 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: joemikeb]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Pendragon
I have an old 100 GB, FW HD in an OWC enclosure that may be put to task, but I don't know what Profile(s) to use. Have you thoughts on that?

It all depends on what you want to have on the ProToGo.
  1. The OS X Recovery HD profile — This configuration will boot all Intel-based Macintosh models capable of running the version of Mac OS X installed on this Mac. No Finder access is available with this profile. This is a good choice for someone supporting multiple Macs running OS X 10.7 or later. It is essentially the same as booting from the Recovery Drive but will work where the HD has completely packed it in.
  2. Mac OS X Full Copy profile — This configuration will create a bootable Mac OS X operating system on the destination device based on the currently running Mac OS X installation. This will be a full copy of that Mac OS X installation. I haven't tested this one, but this could be a solution for anyone who longs for the "good old days" when "retail" OS X came on a DVD. This requires 205.53 GB and is too big for your HD.
  3. Mac OS X Basic Profile — This configuration will create a bootable Mac OS X operating system onto the destination device based on the currently running Mac OS X installation. Finder access is available with this profile. This is the one I use for a general repair ProToGo because I can run other disk repair utilities such as Drive Genius 4 from it.
  4. Mac OS X Minimal Profile — This configuration will boot all Intel-based Macintosh models capable of running the version of Mac OS X installed on this Mac. No Finder access is available with this profile. Basically this configuration is enough to run TTP 8 and Disk Utility.
Each of these profiles can be edited to contain applications of your own choosing or you can create your own customized ProToGo profiles with whatever set of OS X functionality you desire and whatever applications you desire. CAUTION: If you choose any OS X configuration other than Full OS X, operating system APIs essential to the application may not be included. So test thoroughly before the ProToGo is needed in an emergency situation.


Amongst all the things I don't understand... What is the difference & advantage of a Full OS X Protogo vs. a bootable clone via CCC or SuperDuper? confused
_________________________
Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#33970 - 04/23/15 06:53 PM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: Pendragon]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
The full ProToGo does not include any user data or application files other than those specified in the setup and the OS X installer.
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#34004 - 04/25/15 04:17 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: joemikeb]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
The full ProToGo does not include any user data or application files other than those specified in the setup and the OS X installer.


Gottit, Joe, thanks!

I now see where this could be quite handy, but even as cool as it is, I doubt I have need for this capability.
_________________________
Harv
27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#34006 - 04/25/15 07:28 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: Pendragon]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Think of ProToGo, almost any configuration, as a substitute for an E-Drive because that is for all intents and purposes what it is.
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#34168 - 05/09/15 01:36 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: Pendragon]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Mac OS X Full Copy profile — This configuration will create a bootable Mac OS X operating system on the destination device based on the currently running Mac OS X installation. This will be a full copy of that Mac OS X installation. I haven't tested this one, but this could be a solution for anyone who longs for the "good old days" when "retail" OS X came on a DVD. This requires 205.53 GB and is too big for your HD. (Emphasis added)

That caught my attention, but I haven't been able to get around to researching it until now.

205.53 GB???

Originally Posted By: About Protogo Profiles
Full Copy Profile

This configuration will create a bootable Mac OS X operating system on the destination device based on the currently running Mac OS X installation. This will be a full copy of that Mac OS X installation. Size: varies. (Emphasis added)

A "Basic Profile" is only 11.67GB, so what makes a "Full Copy Profile" so incredibly big (realizing that you haven't tested the feature)?
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#34171 - 05/09/15 07:21 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
The full profile contains Finder and all the standard distributions apps. Basically it is a full installation of OS X.
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#34174 - 05/09/15 07:49 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks, but 205 GB for a full installation of OS X seems excessive, to say the least.

My Snowy installation, including 140 GB of music uses only about 165 GB; how much space does your Yosemite installation use?


Edited by artie505 (05/09/15 07:50 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarify
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#34175 - 05/09/15 09:31 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
That includes disk space for several third party applications, swap files, cache files, etc. As far as how much space my Yosemite installation occupies the breakdown is…
  • Apps 186.05 GB
  • Movies 154.32 GB
  • Audio 129.3 GB
  • Photos 36.6 GB
  • Other 71.7 GB

A standard TechTool Pro 8 eDrive is 15 GB of which 7.14GB are used by the minimal OS X and TTP 8.

ProToGo configurations including the total space allocations are all user configurable. Of course you would not be permitted to create a ProToGo volume that is smaller than the selected OS and applications require and you would also want to leave room for swap files, cache files, etc. if you want the system to be stable. I have not attempted to build every ProToGo installation but it appears the default space allocations are on the order of 50% for the system+TTP8+selected apps and 50% free space.
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#34177 - 05/09/15 10:45 PM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I had a feeling that I had asked the wrong guy how big his OS X installation was. tongue

But you're missing the point of my question...

In post #33953, you told Harv

Quote:
I haven't tested this one.... This requires 205.53 GB and is too big for your HD.

which appears to contradict Micromat's

Quote:
Full Copy Profile ... Size: varies.

So, what I'm trying to determine is from where that 205.53 GB number came and whether it's of any significance to Harv or anybody else other than its source. (It sounds like "Full Copy Profile" is no different than a complete or "whatever you want to include" clone of a user's installation.)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#34178 - 05/10/15 10:23 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
So, what I'm trying to determine is from where that 205.53 GB number came and whether it's of any significance to Harv or anybody else other than its source. (It sounds like "Full Copy Profile" is no different than a complete or "whatever you want to include" clone of a user's installation.)

When I launch ProToGo installer there are four configurations listed. The size I quoted was taken from that screen. BUT the sizes are configurable. based on what set or subset of OS X is installed, what applications in addition to TTP 8 are installed and how much space you wish to allow for swap and cache files.
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#34179 - 05/10/15 12:09 PM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
That 'splains it; thanks.

So, Harv's external drive may, in fact, be sufficient for the purpose as regards his installation, but he'll have to launch the installer to find out.


Edited by artie505 (05/10/15 12:19 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarify
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#34185 - 05/11/15 04:37 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: artie505]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: artie505
I had a feeling that I had asked the wrong guy how big his OS X installation was. tongue

Oh I really don't think you want to call THAT to a vote here.
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#34194 - 05/11/15 09:03 AM Re: TTPro 8 (vs. 7.x) [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
So, Harv's external drive may, in fact, be sufficient for the purpose as regards his installation, but he'll have to launch the installer to find out.

To be completely accurate you would have to…
  1. Launch the ProToGo installer
  2. Choose the OS X configuration (most configurations include only a very few of the standard apps and some do not include Finder.
  3. Choose any additional Apple applications desired — note the caveat in item 5
  4. Choose any third party applications desired
  5. NOTE: in the smaller ProToGo OS X configurations amy APIs required by third party applications may not be included.
  6. Select the amont of free space desired on the ProToGo device. It now appears Micromat uses a standard 200MB free space but the user can allow more if desired.

For what it is worth, my opinion of the usefulness of each of the standard ProToGo Profiles in order of estimated usefulness from most to least is…
  • Mac OS X Recovery HD Profile 2.59 GB Includes 200MB Free space — A backup of the Recovery HD. This one is useful because it alone will support reinstalling OS X in the event of a complete drive disaster and provided you have internet connectivity. This is a configuration I would want to have around for any Mac — just in case
  • Minimal Profile 2.85GB — includes TTP 8, Disk Utility, System Information, Terminal, Console, and 200MB additional space, but NOT Finder. Installs on the small devices and provides basic diagnostic and repair tools. An eDrive on a bootable thumb drive. This has the ability to run full diagnostics and make significant repairs well beyond the capability of Disk Utility.
  • Mac OS X Basic Profile 8.37GB including Finder, Preview, Activity Monitor, Console, Disk Utility, System Information, and terminal, as well as the standard 200MB Free space. Because it has Finder this profile can run applications that would not work in the minimal profile. This profile does not include all APIs so not all Apple or third party apps would be able to run.
  • Mac OS X Full Copy Profile 182.44GB including all standard OS X utilities. I cannot tell if this is a full clone or not, but I will test it and get back on that. I will have to test this to find out if it is a clone or a clean install. In my opinion this would be useful only if it were a clean install. I will build one and let you know what I find.

NOTE; All of these profiles can be configured with different apps and free space, but only the Full Copy profile would be guaranteed to have all the APIs and Frameworks to run all applications.
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