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#33136 - 02/18/15 07:47 AM Universal Drive Adapters
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
I'm finally getting around to removing data from a pile of Iomega Zip disks. I have a G4 tower with a Zip drive in it, however no monitor for the G4. Therefore I'm thinking about removing the Zip drive and using a Universal Drive Adapter (UDA) to attach the drive to my iMac.

Newer Technology's USB 3.0 UDA appears to be able to access Zip drives. (I have the USB 2.0 UDA, which doesn't.)

Has anyone used the USB 3.0 UDA for Zip drives and, if so, how did it work out? I notice OWC has the adapter on sale.
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#33137 - 02/18/15 08:18 AM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: ryck]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
It might mount up your zip disks via firewire target mode. I think that works with any media that the computer can boot from. That probably wouldn't include externally attached USB drives, but I'd expect it to work with an internal ZIP. You can hold down the "T" without a monitor smile
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#33138 - 02/18/15 08:53 AM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: Virtual1]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Well, that certainly sounds a lot easier. To be sure I understand, this is what I think you mean.

1. Attach the G4 to the iMac via Firewire cable. (Leave G4 turned off)

2. Turn on the G4 while holding down the T.

3. I should be able to "see" the content of ZIp floppies popped into the G4's built-in (internal) Zip drive.
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#33139 - 02/18/15 10:14 AM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: ryck]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
yep. I discovered that the hard way many years ago. I had a CD on my desktop, and so I opened the tray (pmg3) and it was empty. confused

turns out I had another machine plugged in that I had been fixing via fwtdm and it had come in with a disc in the drive.
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#33140 - 02/18/15 12:51 PM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: Virtual1]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Not having much luck.

I first tried (6 pin Firewire 400) but the Target Icon did not appear. However, my Time Machine Icon had a square grey box around the green disk icon. The Time Machine drive is connected through the 9 pin Firewire 800.

I shut everything down and disconnected the Firewire 800.

Another Firewire 400 try didn't net anything.

Assuming the Firewire cable might be faulty, I changed it. Still nada.

As a Hail Mary, I tried using the ethernet ports. No joy in Mudville.

Note: I am running 10.8.5 on the iMac but have no idea which system is on the G4 - probably OS 9.


Edited by ryck (02/18/15 12:53 PM)
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#33141 - 02/18/15 01:37 PM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
I first tried (6 pin Firewire 400) but the Target Icon did not appear.

You wouldn't see the FireWire icon, because the Mac you booted into FWtdm hasn't got a monitor; what you should see is the G4's HD icon on your iMac's desktop. (Or is that what you meant?)

But, does your G4 actually support FWtdm?

Originally Posted By: Wikipedia

The target computer (the computer to be placed into TDM) must have:
A FireWire or Thunderbolt Port[5]
An ATA device at ATA bus 0[6]
Any Macintosh except the following models:
iMac (Tray-Loading)
Power Macintosh G3 (Blue & White) [7]
iBook ("Clamshell")
Power Macintosh G4 (PCI Graphics) [8] (Yikes!)
MacBook Air (2008-2009)
MacBook (Unibody)
(Emphasis added)
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#33142 - 02/18/15 01:45 PM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505

….what you should see is the G4's HD icon on your iMac's desktop. (Or is that what you meant?)

Yes.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Any Macintosh except the following models:
Power Macintosh G4 (PCI Graphics) [8] (Yikes!)

Yikes, indeed. That's the machine.

Oh well, back to the original question. Does anyone have any experience with the Newer Technology USB 3.0 Universal Drive Adapter c/w Zip drives?


Edited by ryck (02/18/15 01:46 PM)
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#33143 - 02/18/15 01:50 PM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'm not the guy to even attempt to walk you through this...if it's actually possible, but you may be able to set up a local network using Ethernet.
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#33145 - 02/18/15 02:28 PM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Maybe I was too quick agreeing to the Yikes!

I did a serial number search and found it's a G4 (AGP Graphics) (CTO), unless the difference (PCI or AGP Graphics) doesn't matter.

Ethernet sounds interesting. The spec sounds pretty standard: 10/100Base-T (RJ-45)


Edited by ryck (02/18/15 02:29 PM)
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ryck

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#33146 - 02/18/15 02:41 PM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: ryck]
freelance Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: London, UK
I would have guessed that any USB 2 to IDE drive adaptor cable would suffice. I see that Amazon lists a few?

(I'm trying to think how many years ago it was that I threw away all my Zip drives and one and two Gb Jaz drives, because they were worthless. Those 2 Gb Jaz drives were over £50 each!)

Good luck!
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#33148 - 02/18/15 03:52 PM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: ryck]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

According to the (archived) Apple Support document How to use and troubleshoot FireWire target disk mode, the AGP Graphics G4 with ATA hard drive can be booted in Target Disk Mode, but the CTO version (whatever that acronym means) has a SCSI hard drive; SCSI drives are not compatible with Target Disk Mode.

As for Ethernet, you'd have to have had File Sharing enabled on the G4, but there might be other issues trying to access OS 9 files from a Mountain Lion Mac. Google doesn't have much to say about the topic...
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#33152 - 02/19/15 05:02 AM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: dkmarsh]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
….but the CTO version (whatever that acronym means) has a SCSI hard drive; SCSI drives are not compatible with Target Disk Mode.

Neither do I know what that means. I did a search for specs using the serial number and got a sheet which used CTO in four places:

Model: Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics) (CTO)
Installed RAM: CTO
Hard Drive: CTO
Optical Drive: CTO

Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
As for Ethernet, you'd have to have had File Sharing enabled on the G4, but there might be other issues trying to access OS 9 files from a Mountain Lion Mac. Google doesn't have much to say about the topic...

I have no idea whether File Sharing was enabled, and OS9 was just a guess on my part. The machine belonged to a daughter ( who thinks Dad's attic is a great indefinite-term storage facility). She may have installed a later OS as the machine is good up to Tiger.


Edited by ryck (02/19/15 05:11 AM)
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ryck

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#33155 - 02/19/15 05:20 AM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: freelance]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: freelance
I would have guessed that any USB 2 to IDE drive adaptor cable would suffice.

That could be worth a shot, as I do have that adapter from a more elderly Newer Technology device.

The sloth in me wonders about the next part….can I do this without removing the drive? i.e. power the drive by turning the G4 on. It looks like I could reach the connector, which loops from the optical drive and is in a space between the drive and a fan housing.

Stay tuned, everyone.
_________________________
ryck

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#33157 - 02/19/15 06:29 AM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: dkmarsh]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
... the CTO version (whatever that acronym means)

FWIW, in all likelihood CTO stands for 'Configure To Order', suggested by Mactracker's History notes on the PowerMac G4 (PCI Graphics), which state that 'Zip and DVD-ROM/RAM drives were available as BTO options'.
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#33158 - 02/19/15 07:16 AM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: ryck]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: ryck
….can I do this without removing the drive? i.e. power the drive by turning the G4 on.

Yes, I can…..but…..

No matter what I do, the output says it's attached to the optical drive.

The 40 pin connector/strap starts at the optical drive, continues to the ZIP drive and then goes under the ZIP drive.

Although I plugged directly into the ZIP drive, and inserted a ZIP disk, nothing appeared on the iMac desktop. I opened Disk Utility to see what it might determine.

Even though the Optical drive was unplugged, Disk Utility showed my iMac HD and a greyed out "Super Drive" which it described as:

OPTIARC DVD RW AD-5630A:

Firmware Revision: 1AHN
Interconnect: ATAPI
Burn Support: Yes (Apple Shipping Drive)
Cache: 2048 KB
Reads DVD: Yes
CD-Write: -R, -RW
DVD-Write: -R, -R DL, -RW, +R, +R DL, +RW
Write Strategies: CD-TAO, CD-SAO, CD-Raw, DVD-DAO
Media: To show the available burn speeds, insert a disc and choose File > Refresh Information


I shut everything down and plugged into the Optical Drive and, as expected, Disk Utility described everything as above.

In case there was some other link common to the two drives, I also unplugged the power cluster to the Optical Drive and once again plugged directly into the ZIP Drive. Disk Utility delivered the same conclusion.

I tried one last thing. The USB had been attached via a hub. Plugging directly into the iMac made no difference.

I suppose the logical next step is to put a DVD into the Optical drive but, as I already have a disk stuck in a ZIP drive, I'm reluctant.

Update: I have now removed the ZIP Drive, so that it is not connected to anything else, and have attached it to the iMac. However, nothing appears on the desktop and Disk Utility still reports that the ZIP drive is the optical drive, as above in blue.

The ZIP Drive sounds like it is reading the disk.


Edited by ryck (02/19/15 08:06 AM)
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ryck

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#33165 - 02/20/15 12:06 PM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: artie505]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
adding to your list, I believe a 'rev 2' blue and white g3 will do fwtdm.

also I would point out, that fwtdm ONLY works on APPLE ports. It won't work on a firewire card you add to your g4 for example. I don't know if it will work via apple's adapters, such as an air using a thunderbolt to firewire adapter.
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#33166 - 02/20/15 12:07 PM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: freelance]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: freelance
I would have guessed that any USB 2 to IDE drive adaptor cable would suffice. I see that Amazon lists a few


though anything is possible, I've never seen an ATA device NOT work on ANY of the IDE to USB adapters I've tried, and I've run through quite a variety on both ends.
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#33247 - 03/02/15 10:54 AM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: ryck]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Getting back to my original question....

Originally Posted By: ryck
Newer Technology's USB 3.0 UDA appears to be able to access Zip drives. (I have the USB 2.0 UDA, which doesn't.)

I've been doing a bit of querying at NewerTech support (actually OWC) and seem to have received different opinions.

My first contact was with a tech who had me check a number of things with my NewerTech USB 2.0 Universal Drive Adapter before advising that it won't work with ZIP Drives. He advised I need the NewerTech USB 3.0 UDA because it has a newer chipset.

I thought, hmmmmm.

After a few days I asked another tech if the NewerTech USB 3.0 UDA would work with ZIP Drives. He thought that it would connect okay but that driver support would be needed to address and use the drive properly.

Another, hmmmmm.

So, now I am wondering if the NewerTech USB 2.0 UDA might work, if only I had the right driver. I'd like to try that before shelling out for an entirely new UDA that might not be needed, and wouldn't work anyway without the driver.

Any thoughts about where I get a driver or equivalent software that would provide the required support?


Edited by ryck (03/02/15 10:55 AM)
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ryck

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#33323 - 03/06/15 08:37 AM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: ryck]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
So, I am I right to assume no one knows of any drivers or alternative software that would provide the necessary support? I have looked around but everything seems only to be for PPCs.


Edited by ryck (03/06/15 08:37 AM)
_________________________
ryck

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#33338 - 03/07/15 08:02 AM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: ryck]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
So, I am I right to assume no one knows of any drivers or alternative software that would provide the necessary support?

I'm sorry to have to say this, but it looks like it. Let's hope we're wrong. smile
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#33421 - 03/12/15 09:41 PM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: ryck]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
If you've got the necessary cables/adapters, could you use your TV as an ersatz monitor?

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#33426 - 03/13/15 01:02 AM Re: Universal Drive Adapters [Re: JM Hanes]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
That's a great idea, thanks….however it'll have to wait until the next TV. We still have a 32" trinitron. However, we are planning a TV update a few months up the road and will be moving up the current century at that time.


Edited by ryck (03/13/15 01:02 AM)
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Moderator:  alternaut, cyn