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#2645 - 09/01/09 08:38 AM Migrating from PPC to new macmini.
MikeS Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
As some of you avid readers may know, I am (have ordered),for my wife, a new macmini, hopefully installed with Leopard and not SL ( for reasons already discussed) and will now be confronted with, to me at least, the problem of migrating from a PPC (G4 Tower 400 Mhz OSX 10.4.10) to an Intel mac(hine).
The reason/s that it may be problematic to me - in addition to the fact that I easily become confused (another story mad) - is that her existing computer is partitioned 5 fold (don't ask crazy ) and she has an external drive with her music on it.
Initially what I am wondering is what will happen if I just try to dispense with the partitions. In other words how would Migration Asssistant (or whatever it's called) deal with the multiple "volumes". Would I need to create folders prior to migration? In which case how would I do it if "migration" is the first thing most people would do - I think (that's dangerous). Can one "interrupt" the normal procedures and sort of go back and forth? confused
I'm sorry if this seems vague but I did used to have a number of, umm, MacFixIt Forums articles bookmarked on this subject, but they suddenly seem no longer available. shocked mad I would, therefore, be grateful for advice on any potential pitfalls I may encounter on this "journey" ( I hate the way that word is used nowadays).
Thanks in advance of all your suggestions. Regards. Mike

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#2654 - 09/01/09 10:41 AM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: MikeS]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I can tell you what I would do. I have used Migration Assistant successfully many times but as I have not attempted a migration where there were multiple partitions involved I make no guarantees it will or will not work.
  1. Before starting the new Mac for the first time...
  2. Run Disk Utiltity or better yet DiskWarrior, Drive Genius, TechTool Pro against each of the volumes on her old Mac to be sure everything is healthy before initiating any trannsfer of data.
  3. Connect the two Macs back to back with a six pin to six pin firewire cable, then boot the old Mac into firewire target disk mode then boot the new Mac
  4. During the setup of the new Mac you will be prompted to migrate data from another Mac. -- take the option to do so and migrate everything you can.
  5. Once Migration Assistant has finished doing its thing, the new Mac should have all the user data and applications that were on the boot volume of the old Mac. I do not believe it will transfer any data from the other four volumes.
  6. Manually transfer the data from the other four volumes to the new Mac. I have no idea what is on the other four volumes, but as a general rule any data should be placed in your wife's user folder on the new Mac.
  7. Re-install any applications that were on the other four volumes. This hopefully will eliminate any potantial conflicts that might arise. While re-installing, be sure you have the latest update of the applications. versionTracker and MacUpdate can help you identify the latest versions. NOTE: out of date utilities can actually cause damage to your wife's new system.


Edited by joemikeb (09/01/09 10:44 AM)
Edit Reason: clarify
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#2666 - 09/01/09 01:05 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: joemikeb]
MikeS Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Hi Joe
Thanks for your suggestions. Your reply has rung some bells regarding some of the advice I had tucked away, no longer to be accessible, and I now feel more comfortable about the impending "adventure" (as opposed to "journey"). cool
Once migration has started, is it possible to halt it and possibly vary one's "strategy" - no, forget it (for now at least) - I think I am getting too far ahead of myself and creating unnecessary confusion.
So, thanks again and remain on standby just in case. grin
Regards. Mike

Just an afterthought, are there any Leopard manuals you consider to be useful or will the Apple "documentation" (I have seen a 81 page pdf "Welcome to Leopard" online) suffice?


Edited by MikeS (09/01/09 01:11 PM)
Edit Reason: An afterthought

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#2675 - 09/01/09 03:47 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: MikeS]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Once migration is underway there is no way to stop it. Simply let it proceed then erase the target drive and start over by reinstalling OS X. Besides that, you really do not have good clues as to what is being migrated when.

As far as manuals go David Pogue's Mac OS X: The Missing Manual, Leopard edition (or Snow Leopard) is IMO about as good as they get unless you are really interested in the deep down internals.


Edited by joemikeb (09/01/09 03:51 PM)
Edit Reason: add manual recommendation
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#2760 - 09/02/09 02:39 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: joemikeb]
MikeS Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks again.
Like I said, I think I am getting too far ahead of myself and looking for problems which I probably won't even encounter. laugh
I think I do have one of his "Missing Manuals" - can't think which one 'though - but I will keep this in mind, depending upon how I "cope". smile
Regards. Mike

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#2766 - 09/02/09 03:18 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: MikeS]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I know how I feel when I am doing something to my wife's computer if there is even the slightest glitch. I cringe to think of the consequences of a serious problem in the process. But, as I said, I have migrated several Macs using Migration Assistant and all went well. Be sure the volume structure on your source volume(s) and your target volume is healthy, you have a reliable source of power for both Macs (I use a UPS on everything), don't get over anxious (migration can sometimes take a very long time -- hours even) and you should have no trouble, so don't go borrowing any.

PPC apps should still run under Rosetta but that is not necessarily true for drivers. Going from PPC to Intel may "break" some printer and other drivers, but if new drivers for the device are not included in the install, you should be able to find universal updates online.

To reiterate: any Tiger versions of utilities such as Cocktail, OnyX. TinkerTool, TinkerTool Pro, Disk Utility, Diskwarrior, Drive Genius, TechTool Pro, TechTool Deluxe, et. al. can and will damage Leopard and Leopard volume structures. Be absolutely certain not to use any of those until they are updated to the Leopard version. Tiger GUI modifiers, application enhancers, Safari plug-ins, etc. won't break the OS but they can prevent applications from running so those too must be updated. FWIW Leopard broke more Tiger stuff than Snow Leopard broke Leopard stuff.
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#2772 - 09/02/09 04:06 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: joemikeb]
MikeS Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Hi Joe
You've just saved me the bother of making a few more notes. smile
I'm feeling a lot more confident having read through the posts again but, call it nit-picking or confusion (as I've said before I'm quite easily confused over the last few/many years), there are a couple of points I'd appreciate your clarification on if you would please.
Firstly, point 3 of your initial response mentions using a six pin to six pin firewire cable - I assume this was in the days of FW400, 'cos I've bought a nine pin to six pin cable. smirk
Secondly, on your last post you suggest to be sure that the target volume is healthy. a) Should this be necessary on a brand new machine (I guess I know your answer to this) and b) how and when should I do this if (according to your first post, again point 3) I've already tied the two machines together ready for action. confused
I hope all this doesn't sound ungrateful - it's beginning to and I really don't mean it to - but confusing and confusion come so natural to me. blush
Regards. Mike

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#2782 - 09/02/09 08:30 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: MikeS]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Six to nine pin is fine, my sis to six comment is simply habit. It probably isn't essential to check the hard drive on a new machine, but it won't hurt either and does not take that long. Boot the new Mac from its install DVD and run Disk utility from there.
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#2829 - 09/03/09 01:52 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: joemikeb]
MikeS Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks again Joe.
Regards. Mike
What. shocked shocked No more questions. laugh
I'll be back if necessary - sorry. tongue

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#2977 - 09/05/09 08:18 AM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: joemikeb]
MikeS Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Hi Joe
Mac mini arrived yesterday. I hope to have a go at the migrating anytime soon, but have just had another of those thoughts of mine. shocked
When using target disk mode on the old computer, how do I do it if the mouse and keyboard are already connected to the mac mini? confused
Or am I just looking for a problem which won't exist? tongue Is it just a case of removing mouse and keyboard from old mac after booting it into TDM and connecting them to Mac mini? smirk
I know it sounds trivial but it is slightly fiddly (very un Mac like) if you only have one keyboard and mouse. frown
Another thought I had - naive/obvious perhaps - but do I get the opportunity not to transfer all things OS9/Classic? crazy
Many thanks again. Regards. Mike
By the way, sorry if all the icons upset you, but I'm using them to disguise my embarassment. blush blush grin grin
Oh yes, then of course there's only one monitor. wink


Edited by MikeS (09/05/09 08:57 AM)
Edit Reason: Another afterthought.

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#2979 - 09/05/09 09:08 AM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: MikeS]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: MikeS
Is it just a case of removing mouse and keyboard from old mac after booting it into TDM and connecting them to Mac mini? smirk

You got it in one. In fact, I am not sure you even need to have the monitor connected to boot into Firewire target disk mode, but I haven't tried it so I don't know for sure. I do know lots of places run MacMinis headless with neither a monitor or keyboard configuring them remotely through VNC connections.
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#2981 - 09/05/09 09:19 AM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: joemikeb]
MikeS Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks. Just apologising again for any apparent "dimness" on my part, but forewarned is forearmed and, as once I start getting confused my brain goes into meltdown, I try to avoid as many potential problems - in all walks of life - as possible. Regards. Mike

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#2995 - 09/05/09 12:05 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: MikeS]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
Mike, Hi

Apologies for any dimness on my part too, but I've read down this thread two or three times and have some questions to ask out of sheer curiosity - when you have time from the stressful job of Migrating.

(Good Luck btw, I migrated, sort of, a few years ago and it was Jon who guided me through it on MacFixit. I've never forgotten that favour and he will always be my hero.)

Anyway,

Just out of interest, and please don't think I'm critisising! I'm just curious.

1. Why a Macmini and not an iMac? If you buy an iMac you get a big smooth thin monitor with all the boards built into it + keyboard + mouse. The only reason I can think of buying a Macmini is the tiny footprint and lower cost......

2. (I am not being critical I am just curious!) Why does the G4 have five partitions on its disk? FIVE? shocked I've only ever partitioned a Mac disk once and regretted it thenceforward......

3. Joe, Hi, I'd also recommend David Pogue's books. I bought the one for Tiger in advance but by the time I got around to consulting it (when I migrated) much of the information was already out of date. He was still talking about dial-up, for instance.

4. Everyone, Hi. Why is it that so many men (apparently) do these things for their wives/women? Are women incapable of these things themselves, especially if they were capable of partitioning a disk which is not an easy task? I am not critisising, I am just baffled.

4 (a). Why, following that train of thought, are there many more men than women on technical forums? Is it because men like to discuss these things in public whereas women just get on with the task in hand? confused

5. Joe, you say "FWIW Leopard broke more Tiger stuff..." This is, well, appalling, is it not? Both OSs from Apple yet the newer one broke the older one? No wonder I never upgraded from Tiger, then, it works fine!

6. Joe, this one leapt off the page at me:

"Simply let it proceed then erase the target drive and start over by reinstalling OS X."

The target drive in this scenario is the new Macmini, isn't it? Source = old G4, target = new Macmini?

Or am I reading it wrong and being very stupid? confused

Well, best of luck Mike. Please let us know what happened.

Best wishes

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#3012 - 09/05/09 04:53 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: Bensheim]
bob82xrp Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Tucson
Quote:
6. Joe, this one leapt off the page at me: "Simply let it proceed then erase the target drive and start over by reinstalling OS X."

The target drive in this scenario is the new Macmini, isn't it? Source = old G4, target = new Macmini?

Or am I reading it wrong and being very stupid?


I think what joemikeb was responding to here is that MikeS asked what if he was in the process of migrating, and changed his mind about his migration strategy. My reading of it is that joemikeb was saying rather than quit the migration process, which could muck up some things, just let it finish and then just start over by erasing the mini and doing a clean install.

This is somewhat off topic, but one of my pet peeves is that Apple's use of the term "target drive" with respect to Firewire Target Disk Mode doesn't correspond with conventional usage regarding "source" and "target" drives (see the linked article) when you're migrating. What they call the "target" drive (the machine booted in Target Mode) is functioning as the source drive, and the actual target drive is called the "host". I think they should have chosen a name like "Firewire External Disk Mode" and avoided a term which already had an established directionality to it, since any drive can be a source or target depending on which way you're moving your data.

Quote:
4. Everyone, Hi. Why is it that so many men (apparently) do these things for their wives/women? Are women incapable of these things themselves, especially if they were capable of partitioning a disk which is not an easy task? I am not critisising, I am just baffled.

4 (a). Why, following that train of thought, are there many more men than women on technical forums? Is it because men like to discuss these things in public whereas women just get on with the task in hand?


I think this might be an appropriate topic for a lounge thread, since we don't have a troubleshooting forum for discrepancies between the sexes. tongue
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MacBook Pro, 2.66 Ghz Intel Core i7, 4GB RAM, 500 GB HD, OSX 10.6.8

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#3018 - 09/05/09 06:10 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: bob82xrp]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: bob82xrp
I think what joemikeb was responding to here is that MikeS asked what if he was in the process of migrating, and changed his mind about his migration strategy. My reading of it is that joemikeb was saying rather than quit the migration process, which could muck up some things, just let it finish and then just start over by erasing the mini and doing a clean install.

You nailed it. Stopping the migration process would leave the drive you are migrating to in an unknown condition so it is preferable to erase the drive you are migrating to and start all over from scratch rather than deal with who knows what.
Originally Posted By: Bensheim
Joe, you say "FWIW Leopard broke more Tiger stuff..." This is, well, appalling, is it not? Both OSs from Apple yet the newer one broke the older one? No wonder I never upgraded from Tiger, then, it works fine!
Those of us who have been with OS X since the Public Beta have always been aware OS X has been a work in process from the very beginning.

The overall structure of OS X consists of multiple layers supporting one another. Tiger pretty well established the user interface layer of OS X. Leopard's changes were a level deeper and added substantial new functionalities as well as moving OS X to what is likely the final API (Application Program Interface) structure where apps tie into the OS to receive services. A lot of earlier APIs that had been deprecated were dropped while others were changed or the functionality moved to another API and still others were added. Some of the new functionalities introduced significant additions to the volume structures on the hard drives. These changes were announced and planned well in advance, but no few application developers chose to wait on making the necessary adjustments in their code. As a result a lot of applications, utilities, drivers, etc. were broken by Leopard or in some cases could break Leopard.

The changes in Snow Leopard may well be the most drastic and dramatic so far, but the vast bulk of those changes are at a still deeper level, way down in the guts of the OS itself and any changes in the APIs, etc. that effect application functionality are relatively few and relatively minor. In effect the applications are all floating above the dramatic structural changes in Snow Leopard and are therefore relatively unaffected.

So it was not surprising to me that Leopard broke a lot of things while Snow Leopard broke relatively few and some of those because the application developer took advantage and "hung" some of their code in places they shouldn't have. I will say in the application developer's defense, working on the Windows platform they have four, five or more years to prepare for a new Windows release. Working on the Mac platform they have had learn how to adapt to an eighteen month OS release cycle and that is not a lot of lead time. That eighteen month release cycle is considered a major strength of OS X allowing it to rapidly adapt to a market demand that is continually and rapidly evolving.
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#3085 - 09/06/09 12:02 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: joemikeb]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
Joe, that's a brilliant answer and I thank you.

I've learned a lot. You've answered some of the questions I always wondered about, so, thank you and I am - absolutely no kidding whatsoever - in awe of your deepbackgroundintensive knowledge of these things.

Bravo! What do you do for a day job? I hope they're paying you well.

Best wishes

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#3112 - 09/06/09 03:48 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: Bensheim]
MikeS Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Bensheim, joemikeb & anyone else interested
Well, I've virtually done the dirty deed, not without a bit of physical and mental "distress".
Not being particularly adept nowadays at crawling around removing/changing cables etc, I thought the "worst" was over when I eventually asked the Mac mini to begin the migration.
I'm certainly glad I didn't hold my breath for the "Less than a minute remaining", but I was forewarned about the accuracy of the estimated timing.
Apart from that the actual migration process was straightforward, although I fail to understand how the computer could go to sleep during a fairly lengthy activity. Also it was unable to register the "transaction" - I must remember to go back and do that.
Right, now to check out Mail - as I had read various articles about the inconsistency of its migration - and to my horror (actually that's a bit of an exaggeration) it opened, displaying nothing but the menu bar. Even the "Import" option was greyed out. Just to add insult to injury, Mail refused to quit - had to force quit in order to get rid of it. Fortunately I found a Google suugestion -- http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1849306 -- and problems solved. Don't like the new dock as you can hardly detect what is "open", but this might improve when I get around to re-calibrating the monitor. Spotlight seems to be a bit over exuberant in the amount of "unlikely" hits it makes. WindowShade no longer "windowshades" and, I think, last of all at the moment, the menu bar on the desktop seems to obliterate part of "lofty" icons.
But, on the whole, exhaustion apart (but that's a permanent issue with me), the process went probably less problematically than I had envisaged. It's not that I ignored your suggestions/observations Joe -far from, it they were spot on - but lately I seem to have half empty glasses.
I have deliberately omitted any icons in this response, as last night I was replying to Bensheim's last reply to me and I pathetically managed to use every single icon, only to somehow "wipe out" my response with a single keystroke - I don't know how I did it, but ironically I was intending to copy everything before submitting as it had taken quite a while to compose. Look, see, still no icons. So, very quickly, before I collapse into total unconsciousness, I will just respond to you Bensheim by saying that we went down the Mac mini track for both the footprint and cost reasons and also the fact that my wife has a virtually brand new keyboard and monitor.
Regards. Mike, Oh, to hell with it. cool smile grin laugh wink tongue smirk blush blush

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#3113 - 09/06/09 03:56 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: MikeS]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: MikeS
Don't like the new dock as you can hardly detect what is "open", but this might improve when I get around to re-calibrating the monitor.
You can tweak a few extra dock features with Tinker Tool. It's free, so take a look.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.4, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#3124 - 09/06/09 05:21 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: jchuzi]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

It's possible to change Leopard's 3D Dock to a more Tiger-like 2D version using the following Terminal command:

defaults write com.apple.Dock "no-glass" -bool TRUE; killall Dock

That's what I did, and the small bluish-white dots below the icons of running applications become much more obvious.

I don't know if that's one of the TinkerTool tweaks you're referring to, but I know it's among the Dock settings accessible using OnyX.
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#3128 - 09/06/09 05:34 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: dkmarsh]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
That is also one of the thousand plus "hidden" preference settings that can be toggled through MacPilot
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#3134 - 09/06/09 06:07 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: dkmarsh]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
defaults write com.apple.Dock "no-glass" -bool TRUE; killall Dock
Tinker Tool calls it "Disable three-dimensional glass effect"
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.4, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#3245 - 09/07/09 02:32 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: jchuzi]
MikeS Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks Jon (and dk and Joe), re-calibrating the monitor has improved things immensely, but I will, as usual, make a note (not mental, as that would probably be pointless grin) of all the suggestions.
One thing I hadn't done yesterday was to connect the Canon Pixma MP630 printer/scanner/etc to the Macmini, but after I did it today, it was not detected. The printer driver was not listed - in fact little or nothing Canon was/is listed - which seems most peculiar as I checked out the Leopard compatibilty even before I purchased the printer/etc and had read an Apple document listing the MP630 in it's "compatibilityness". Anyway, I installed the driver from from the Canon disk and it now works, albeit a slightly different layout. This also leads me to another query, whereby I could not find the printer utility (what's it called Jon?) which I know existed on Tiger. Any suggestions?
Finally - I will post any other problems/experiences I have with Leopard in the more appropriate place - reverting back to my "harping on" about Spotlight, Jon, I seem to recall that you have, in the past, "championed" alternatives. I have "VersionTracked" a couple - EasyFind and Find Any File - and was wondering what your experience has been (with the alternatives I mean shocked blush).
Sorry for "going on" and thanks again all. Regards. Mike

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#3253 - 09/07/09 03:15 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: MikeS]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Printer Setup Utility does not exist in Leopard. If you want to reset the printing system, go to System Preferences>Print&Fax and control-click in the Printers list at the left of the window. At least, that's what I assume you are asking. If not, post back and I'll try to answer you.

I have used EasyFind and FindAnyFile but, for the most part, Spotlight works OK for me.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.4, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#3263 - 09/07/09 05:33 PM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: MikeS]
dianne Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Hi, MikeS smile

It is good to see you again at FineTunedMac! laugh

If you need more help in working through the Canon Pixma MP630 printer/scanner/etc problems, let me know in a reply here.

If so, I will split this troubleshooting branch from the "Migrating from PPC to new macmini" topic and create a new topic for you in the "Peripherals" forum which provides help with scanners/printing, etc.

Please do not worry about posting your problems and questions at FineTunedMac.

Moderators and members are dedicated to helping those with questions find good answers.
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#3310 - 09/08/09 10:11 AM Re: Migrating from PPC to new macmini. [Re: MikeS]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
MikeS needs a good hearty bear-hug, a hi-five and a drink!

Congratulations mate. We've all been there and know how exhausting it can be.

And thanks for reporting back on your progress.

Bravo!


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