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#32653 - 01/27/15 02:54 AM Re: Removing an App [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
What is /Trash? I can neither find nor create it in Snowy; is it something new?

Try this: double click a .dmg to mount the disk image. With the image mounted, move the .dmg to the Trash. Now take a look in Disk Utility.
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#32654 - 01/27/15 03:08 AM Re: Removing an App [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks for the idea.

I see /(dot)Trash...; Rita's path hasn't got a dot.

I dunno. confused

Let's see what Rita comes back with.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#32665 - 01/27/15 12:18 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: plantsower]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Okay, let's start from the beginning.

Disk Utility is saying the .dmg is in the trash. If you empty the trash, then look in the trash, is the dmg still there? You won't be able to empty the trash if the file is in use. If the .dmg is mounted on your desktop, it's in use and emptying the trash won't make it go away.

Why is it appearing? Because way back when you installed Evernote, you downloaded the .dmg, you mounted the .dmg on your desktop, and then you double-clicked Evernote from the .dmg. That's not what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to copy it to your applications folder and then double click it in the applications folder, never from the .dmg. By double-clicking from the .dmg, you told your computer, "do not make this program live in my applications folder. make it live in this .dmg file. Every time I use this program, automatically mount the .dmg and run the application."

Generally speaking, unless you have a clear reason to do otherwise, you shouldn't double-click anything in a .dmg.

Okay, moving on. Why is the .dmg popping up every time you print?

Evernote has a feature that lets you save a note by using the Print command in a program, and choosing "Print to Evernote." Whatever is in that window becomes a note.

So, here's what happened. You double-clicked the Evernote icon inside the DMG. That told your computer, "Evernote lives inside this DMG. Automatically mount the DMG when I want to use Evernote."

Every time you use the Print command, your computer says "Oh, print to Evernote is installed! I need to start Evernote. Okay, I have been told to mount this DMG and run Evernote from the DMG whenever I need to use Evernote. Okay, now mounting DMG...

To stop this from happening, you must do two things.

1. Remove Print to Evernote.
2. Delete the DMG.

1. Open the Library folder inside your Home folder. (Note: there are actually two Library folders. You do not want the one that lives on the top level of your hard drive. You want the one that lives inside your Home folder.)

If you're using OS X 10.7 ("Lion") or later, this folder is hidden. To get to it on Lion or later, click on the Go menu in the Finder, choose the Go To Folder command, and type

~/Library

Once you are there, look for a folder called PDF Services. Open it and look for Evernote. Move it to the trash. That will stop Evernote from running every time you use the Print command.

2. Make sure the DMG file is not mounted on your Desktop (you can restart the computer to be sure), then choose Empty Trash.
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#32670 - 01/27/15 12:34 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Rita has already emptied the trash with the .dmg not mounted, but it somehow persists, and Disk Utility says that it lives in /Trash, which shouldn't even exist.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#32673 - 01/27/15 12:48 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: MacManiac]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Originally Posted By: MacManiac
Hi Rita, you've presented what we like to call in the trades "A Doozy!".....

Reviewing your complete thread (and screen shots - REALLY NICE JOB with those) and trolling through the Evernote forums AND searching Google and Wikipedia for similar issues has been less than telling.

I think I may have a path for you to follow, but it's based more on intuition than fact.

If your original install was from the App Store, it sounds like there may be some history in the Evernote forums of a possible conflict that is reconciled by replacing the App Store installation with a direct download of the latest Evernote version from their website....short of a full nuke and pave reformat and reinstall from scratch for your complete System and User info on your computer, I'm thinking you might want to install Evernote (again) from the direct download and then follow the guidance in this post from the Evernote Forums to remove it and the data completely.

It seems clear to me that your prior piece-meal removal process left some legacy hidden component....the process above should properly overcome that (I hope).

Just remember, that when you go to install from any other source than the App Store, you will have to go into the System Preferences Security prefpane and allow the install.....

Good luck with this one and let us know.


Thanks so much for all the work you put into this, and I will use that info should I decide to ever download Evernote again. But guess what? EasyFind got rid of it! I used it last night, then emptied the Trash. Rebooted this a.m. and still no problems when I "Command Print."

I think you are right about how I got rid of it piecemeal. It caused a problem. I'll be more careful next time.
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MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#32674 - 01/27/15 12:50 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: tacit]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Originally Posted By: tacit
Okay, let's start from the beginning.

Disk Utility is saying the .dmg is in the trash. If you empty the trash, then look in the trash, is the dmg still there? You won't be able to empty the trash if the file is in use. If the .dmg is mounted on your desktop, it's in use and emptying the trash won't make it go away.

Why is it appearing? Because way back when you installed Evernote, you downloaded the .dmg, you mounted the .dmg on your desktop, and then you double-clicked Evernote from the .dmg. That's not what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to copy it to your applications folder and then double click it in the applications folder, never from the .dmg. By double-clicking from the .dmg, you told your computer, "do not make this program live in my applications folder. make it live in this .dmg file. Every time I use this program, automatically mount the .dmg and run the application."

Generally speaking, unless you have a clear reason to do otherwise, you shouldn't double-click anything in a .dmg.

Okay, moving on. Why is the .dmg popping up every time you print?

Evernote has a feature that lets you save a note by using the Print command in a program, and choosing "Print to Evernote." Whatever is in that window becomes a note.

So, here's what happened. You double-clicked the Evernote icon inside the DMG. That told your computer, "Evernote lives inside this DMG. Automatically mount the DMG when I want to use Evernote."

Every time you use the Print command, your computer says "Oh, print to Evernote is installed! I need to start Evernote. Okay, I have been told to mount this DMG and run Evernote from the DMG whenever I need to use Evernote. Okay, now mounting DMG...

To stop this from happening, you must do two things.

1. Remove Print to Evernote.
2. Delete the DMG.

1. Open the Library folder inside your Home folder. (Note: there are actually two Library folders. You do not want the one that lives on the top level of your hard drive. You want the one that lives inside your Home folder.)

If you're using OS X 10.7 ("Lion") or later, this folder is hidden. To get to it on Lion or later, click on the Go menu in the Finder, choose the Go To Folder command, and type

~/Library

Once you are there, look for a folder called PDF Services. Open it and look for Evernote. Move it to the trash. That will stop Evernote from running every time you use the Print command.

2. Make sure the DMG file is not mounted on your Desktop (you can restart the computer to be sure), then choose Empty Trash.


Thank you. Trust me I will keep this in mind should it happen again. But, EasyFind got rid of the problems!!! Who knew?

Rita
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#32675 - 01/27/15 12:51 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Originally Posted By: artie505
Rita has already emptied the trash with the .dmg not mounted, but it somehow persists, and Disk Utility says that it lives in /Trash, which shouldn't even exist.


Artie, guess what? EasyFind did it!!!! It took over where AppCleaner and other measures left off!! Thanks a million times over!

Rita
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#32676 - 01/27/15 12:56 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: tacit]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Tacit:

I finally read all thought your instructions and got the red flag into my head. NEVER double click on a dmg! The way you explained what happened made it so clear and took away the big mystery. Thanks again. You're a good teacher!

Rita
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MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#32677 - 01/27/15 01:01 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
On the one hand, that's wonderful! But on the other hand, now we'll never know what /Trash was all about. cool frown

I'd love to have seen your EasyFind screen before you deleted everything.

At any rate, Rita, I'm happy to have helped. smile
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#32678 - 01/27/15 01:04 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Originally Posted By: artie505
On the one hand, that's wonderful! But on the other hand, now we'll never know what /Trash was all about. cool frown

I'd love to have seen your EasyFind screen before you deleted everything.

At any rate, Rita, I'm happy to have helped. smile


Yeah, I should have taken another screen shot. I gave it a cursory glance, and a lot of it was just Evernote screen shots. The stuff I didn't understand I dismissed. Next time, screen shots all around. My treat!! smile
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MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#32679 - 01/27/15 01:06 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Is it possible that OS X created /Trash to accommodate the .dmg when Rita originally trashed it because it knew that she didn't really want to trash it?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#32680 - 01/27/15 01:08 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'll take mine straight-up; we've already had enough rockiness around here! grin
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#32683 - 01/27/15 01:15 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Originally Posted By: artie505
I'll take mine straight-up; we've already had enough rockiness around here! grin


Done!! smirk
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#32690 - 01/27/15 03:49 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
On the one hand, that's wonderful! But on the other hand, now we'll never know what /Trash was all about.

As was implied by my earlier post, when I experimented by moving the Evernote installer .dmg to the Trash with the disk image already mounted, I saw exactly what was displayed in Rita's screen shot. I've confirmed that this isn't some anomaly specific to Evernote by producing the same result by dragging other .dmgs to the Trash while their disk images are mounted.

Furthermore, when I unmount such a disk image and then go to empty the Trash, I get the Finder icon bouncing in the Dock, alerting me to the presence of a The operation can’t be completed because the item “whatever.dmg” is in use alert. This really should be a modal alert: that is, it should be displayed in front of all windows so you can't miss it.

Instead, it only comes to the front if you're already in Finder when it's generated. If you empty the Trash by right-clicking or control-clicking the Trash icon in the Dock, the alert is layered behind the active app's windows. Even worse, if you respond to the bouncing Finder icon in the Dock by clicking on that icon, the alert is immediately hidden by the new Finder window generated by that click! (If you've already got one or more Finder windows open, the alert is layered behind that or those window(s).)

And to top it off, once the alert exists, further attempts to empty the Trash (which you can't then do from Finder's File menu, because the command is, correctly, dimmed) via its Dock icon don't generate any "illegal action" feedback: The Empty Trash command in the contextual menu is not dimmed, which has to be considered a bug, and there's no alert sound produced.

So it's entirely possible that Rita's actions produced such an alert, which she never saw, and that all the various empytings of the Trash in fact did nothing at all.

By the way, you probably should have told her to Eject the mounted disk image in Disk Utility rather than Unmounting it; then emptying the Trash would have worked as expected.
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dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#32691 - 01/27/15 04:01 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: plantsower]
MacManiac Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
TWO pieces of good news in all this.....

First, you got it resolved.

Second, you got an increased understanding of how it occurred in the first place.

Nice work!
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#32692 - 01/27/15 04:10 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: dkmarsh]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

Quote:
On the one hand, that's wonderful! But on the other hand, now we'll never know what /Trash was all about.

As was implied by my earlier post, when I experimented by moving the Evernote installer .dmg to the Trash with the disk image already mounted, I saw exactly what was displayed in Rita's screen shot. I've confirmed that this isn't some anomaly specific to Evernote by producing the same result by dragging other .dmgs to the Trash while their disk images are mounted.

Furthermore, when I unmount such a disk image and then go to empty the Trash, I get the Finder icon bouncing in the Dock, alerting me to the presence of a The operation can’t be completed because the item “whatever.dmg” is in use alert. This really should be a modal alert: that is, it should be displayed in front of all windows so you can't miss it.

Instead, it only comes to the front if you're already in Finder when it's generated. If you empty the Trash by right-clicking or control-clicking the Trash icon in the Dock, the alert is layered behind the active app's windows. Even worse, if you respond to the bouncing Finder icon in the Dock by clicking on that icon, the alert is immediately hidden by the new Finder window generated by that click! (If you've already got one or more Finder windows open, the alert is layered behind that or those window(s).)

And to top it off, once the alert exists, further attempts to empty the Trash (which you can't then do from Finder's File menu, because the command is, correctly, dimmed) via its Dock icon don't generate any "illegal action" feedback: The Empty Trash command in the contextual menu is not dimmed, which has to be considered a bug, and there's no alert sound produced.

So it's entirely possible that Rita's actions produced such an alert, which she never saw, and that all the various empytings of the Trash in fact did nothing at all.

By the way, you probably should have told her to Eject the mounted disk image in Disk Utility rather than Unmounting it; then emptying the Trash would have worked as expected.


WOW!!
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#32693 - 01/27/15 04:12 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: MacManiac]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Originally Posted By: MacManiac
TWO pieces of good news in all this.....

First, you got it resolved.

Second, you got an increased understanding of how it occurred in the first place.

Nice work!


I know I learned a ton!!


Rita
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#32698 - 01/27/15 09:15 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: artie505]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: artie505
On the one hand, that's wonderful! But on the other hand, now we'll never know what /Trash was all about. cool frown


I tried an experiment. I created a DMG, moounted it, then moved it to the trash and ran Disk Utility. Disk Utility said it was in /Trash even though, in reality, there was no path called /Trash. Bug in Disk Utility, I think.

Rita, you can double-click a .dmg; just don't double-click the things IN the .dmg if they're an application rather than an installer. Drag the application to your Applications folder, then open your Applications folder and run it from there!
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#32699 - 01/27/15 09:28 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: tacit]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Originally Posted By: tacit
Originally Posted By: artie505
On the one hand, that's wonderful! But on the other hand, now we'll never know what /Trash was all about. cool frown


I tried an experiment. I created a DMG, moounted it, then moved it to the trash and ran Disk Utility. Disk Utility said it was in /Trash even though, in reality, there was no path called /Trash. Bug in Disk Utility, I think.

Rita, you can double-click a .dmg; just don't double-click the things IN the .dmg if they're an application rather than an installer. Drag the application to your Applications folder, then open your Applications folder and run it from there!


Good to know in case I accidentally click on a dmg. I just hope I remember not to click on it's contents. Better not to click on it at all with my memory or lack thereof. smile

Rita
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#32700 - 01/27/15 10:22 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks for that, tacit.

I've tried the same thing with Applejack and TextWrangler DMGs, and in both instances Disk Utility showed the path to the trashed DMG as /.Trash.

I guess something changed between Snowy and Yosemite.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#32701 - 01/27/15 11:14 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Great, well-researched and documented post, but, unfortunately, it doesn't touch on my question... "What is /Trash all about?" No such file path exists in an OS X installation that isn't either bollixed or modified.

That question is apparently answered by tacit's post #32698 and my response in post #32700.

Thanks for the tip about ejecting v unmounting.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#32702 - 01/28/15 03:52 AM Re: Removing an App [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
Great, well-researched and documented post, but, unfortunately, it doesn't touch on my question... "What is /Trash all about?"

I was only interested in your question to the extent that you seemed to view the existence of /Trash in Rita's screen shoot as potential evidence of some anomaly specific to her issue, which it is not. I found the same /Trash when I conducted the experiment noted earlier, and tacit's subsequent post confirms my experience.

Of far greater interest to me was developing an hypothesis that would explain the observed events.
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#32707 - 01/28/15 02:54 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: artie505]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: artie505
Thanks for that, tacit.

I've tried the same thing with Applejack and TextWrangler DMGs, and in both instances Disk Utility showed the path to the trashed DMG as /.Trash.

I guess something changed between Snowy and Yosemite.


That's fascinating. In Mavericks, it shows in Disk Utility as /Trash rather than /.Trash too. Weird.

I would definitely call that a bug.
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Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#32725 - 01/29/15 05:10 AM Re: Removing an App [Re: tacit]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
disk utility is one of the rare examples of an app that has absolutely no issues with opening a "document" that's in the trash.

otherwise, that behavior is discouraged system-wide
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#32858 - 01/31/15 09:16 PM Re: Removing an App [Re: tacit]
ganbustein Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Your Trash (that icon on your Dock) is a curious beast. It opens just like it's a folder, but it isn't, not really. It's actually a collection of folders whose contents are logically merged to be displayed as if they were all in a single folder.

It has been this way since the very first Macintosh, back in 1984. The issue is that when you want to trash something, it needs to be moved to the Trash, but files cannot be moved from one disk volume to another. The only way to handle this is to create a separate Trash folder on every disk volume. (They're created as needed, the first time you trash something from that volume.)

With OS X and multiple users, it becomes important for each user to have their own separate Trash. That means there is a trash folder for each user on each disk volume.

Your Trash folder on your home disk volume (the disk volume, normally the boot volume, where your home folder lives) is ~/.Trash. On each other disk volume, your Trash folder is at <path to disk>/.Trashes/userid.

The GUI is trying very hard to make all these folders appear to be a single Trash folder. So, what name should this single virtual folder have? Why, it should be called "Trash", of course.

When Disk Utility is showing you the path to a disk image, if the actual image file is in any of your Trash folders, Disk Utility simply tells you it's in /Trash. It's trying to maintain the illusion that you have only a single Trash, not a slew of trash folders scattered across multiple volumes.

Finder is the main instigator in this deception, showing all the folders as a single folder, but relents somewhat if you Get Info on one of the items in your Trash. If it's in ~/.Trash (and your home folder is in its usual place), Finder says it's in BootDiskName ▸ Users ▸ username ▸ Trash. (Notice how it hid the period in .Trash—you aren't meant to see names beginning with period.) If it's in one of the trash folders on another disk, it says DiskName ▸ .Trashes ▸ Trash. (This time it shows the period in .Trashes, but hides the userid, and invents the final Trash out of nowhere.) Also notice that Finder is using as the path separator, which is probably just as well considering that these are not actual POSIX file paths.

All of these "paths to Trash" end the same, with Trash. The message to the user is: there is only one Trash, even though there may be multiple paths to it.

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