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#595 - 08/08/09 08:52 AM Cat Lore
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
It's time to furbish [quasi-pun intended] the new place with a cat thread.
I'll start with a nice little quote (below).
And if anyone would like my client handout on cats as carnivores (Cats Are Carnivores:
Fact and Fiction in Feline Nutrition), I'd be pleased to post same.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If we measure lives not in time but in grace, in the joy with which they are lived, and in the love they leave behind, then we have much to learn from our cats.
— Author unknown
_________________________
That must be wonderful; I have no idea what it means.
— Molière

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#599 - 08/08/09 09:33 AM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Let me post a true story about cats and their intelligence:

Friends of ours have a cat that gets hungry at about 4 AM. She has learned how to operate their clock radio and stealthily jumps onto the dresser, pushes the On button and then adjusts the volume to maximum so that they can wake up and feed her. My wife and I found this to be hysterical but our friends aren't laughing. Now, they feed the cat before they go to bed and hope for the best.

I'm not making this up.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#614 - 08/08/09 11:51 AM Re: Cat Lore [Re: jchuzi]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Cats are evolutionarily noctural ... good hunting.
Ergo, it's generally a good idea to provide overnight provisions, unless you're a very earlier riser.
Unfortunately, such may not be a great idea if you've got an obese cat which really needs to be on a diet.
_________________________
That must be wonderful; I have no idea what it means.
— Molière

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#632 - 08/08/09 02:02 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
You're certainly right about their being nocturnal. Our cat prowls the house most of the night and we leave food available for him. He's far from obese but we watch his dietary habits for weight problems.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#634 - 08/08/09 02:05 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: jchuzi]
PChaterosx Offline
Banned

Registered: 08/04/09
My cat's teeth stick out of his mouth a little bit when it's closed.
_________________________
Titanium Powerbook G4 18.63 GB HD Mac OS 9.2- Mac OS X 10.2.8

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#639 - 08/08/09 02:10 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
Gregg Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Milwaukee, WI (USA)
We had a small black and white cat when we lived in Colorado. We got the cat before we moved out there. Well, the first time it saw a few magpies land outside the window, it was very unsettled. The cat, safely behind the sliding glass door, acted like it wanted to hide. We thought it was pretty funny.

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#713 - 08/09/09 02:44 AM Re: Cat Lore [Re: PChaterosx]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Fangs ('canine' teeth) sticking out, especially with the lips slightly retracted, is normal.
Any other configuration should be checked out by your vet.

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#714 - 08/09/09 02:51 AM Re: Cat Lore [Re: Gregg]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
All corvids (eg crows and ravens), but especially magpies, are cats' (and dogs') nemeses.
They go out of their way, often in family groups, to torment our quadripedal companions.
Corvids seem to have relatively strong family ties before they fully fledge and scatter, and they are likely the most intelligent of birds. You might enjoy reading the Mind of the Raven by Bernd Heinrich for some fascinating insights.
I've even seen crows and magpies "sitting shiva" for an apparent fallen family member. Now that's freaky.

_________________________
That must be wonderful; I have no idea what it means.
— Molière

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#727 - 08/09/09 08:26 AM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
PChaterosx Offline
Banned

Registered: 08/04/09
His lips are always slightly retracted.
_________________________
Titanium Powerbook G4 18.63 GB HD Mac OS 9.2- Mac OS X 10.2.8

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#809 - 08/10/09 07:17 AM Re: Cat Lore [Re: PChaterosx]
kiwichris Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: New Zealand
He is smiling smile

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#814 - 08/10/09 08:19 AM Re: Cat Lore [Re: kiwichris]
PChaterosx Offline
Banned

Registered: 08/04/09
laugh
_________________________
Titanium Powerbook G4 18.63 GB HD Mac OS 9.2- Mac OS X 10.2.8

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#908 - 08/11/09 05:26 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: PChaterosx]
Paddy Offline


Registered: 08/08/09
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
We have red-winged blackbirds in our neighborhood in Toronto (near Sunnybrook Park, which is in a big ravine system with river) and last summer a pair of them had a nest in our next-door neighbor's tree. They get very pugnacious when they're nesting, we discovered. The male regularly dive-bombed us when we were outside (actually brushing my head, one time) and they had absolute fits when our cat was outside. She (not the one in my avatar - he's only a year old) is a good hunter and she seemed rather shocked at having the tables turned. After dodging the birds several times she came over to me and meowed - as if to say "would you PLEASE do something about this?!!"

Grelber, I'd be interested in seeing your Cats are Carnivores handout. I've recently done a lot of reading on the subject and switched all their food to grain-free high-quality (not cheap) canned (mostly) and dry. The only problem I have is that both of them PREFER the dry - they act like they're getting potato chips or something! They're getting Wellness (canned), Innova EVO (canned) and Orijen (dry) - all grain free.
_________________________
Mid-2012 15" 2.7Ghz MacBook Pro Retina, 16GB RAM, OS 10.13.1
Late-2014 27" 4Ghz iMac 5K, OS 10.13.1
iPad Pro
iPhone 5

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#911 - 08/11/09 05:45 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: Paddy]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Just like children, cats gain preferences based on early experiences, particularly with food.
EVO of all the dry foods is the lowest in carbohydrates, in many case approximating canned foods. So it's a good choice.
Since you're the only one who's asked, I'd like to forward the carnivore handout to you via PM (private message), but you haven't got PMs enabled.
Let me know when you do.

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#912 - 08/11/09 05:47 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
PChaterosx Offline
Banned

Registered: 08/04/09
Ma cat won't let me pet him today... That's so unusual for him. Usually, He's always right next to me.
_________________________
Titanium Powerbook G4 18.63 GB HD Mac OS 9.2- Mac OS X 10.2.8

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#916 - 08/11/09 05:59 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
Paddy Offline


Registered: 08/08/09
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I'll enable it then - didn't realize that it wasn't enabled by default. tongue

Edit: PMs were enabled - email notification of PMS was not. Let me know if it still doesn't work - I'll also send you my email addy by PM just in case. smile

Further edit - PMs appear to be disabled for everyone - I can't send one to you either, Grelber. So...you can email me: paddy at ymail.com (I'll edit to remove the email addy after I get your email, Grelber)


Edited by Paddy (08/11/09 06:06 PM)
_________________________
Mid-2012 15" 2.7Ghz MacBook Pro Retina, 16GB RAM, OS 10.13.1
Late-2014 27" 4Ghz iMac 5K, OS 10.13.1
iPad Pro
iPhone 5

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#918 - 08/11/09 06:16 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: Paddy]
dkmarsh Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Private messages aren't actually enabled. A quirk in the software makes it problematic to remove the apparent functionality from view. Same with the [image][/image] tags.

I'd actually be interested in reading the handout too, though, so maybe grelber can go ahead and post it. smile
_________________________

dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#943 - 08/12/09 03:03 AM Re: Cat Lore [Re: dkmarsh]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Strange ... when I registered I received an automated PM welcoming me, as I discovered when I clicked on the flashing mail icon.
In any case, here's the handout (some formatting of which has been lost 'in translation').

Cats Are Carnivores:
Fact and Fiction in Feline Nutrition


One of your most important responsibilities as a cat owner is to provide your cat with the necessary nutrients required for its growth and maintenance. Cats need a diet that contains protein, fat, minerals, vitamins and water. Those nutrients are the building blocks of various structural body tissues; are essential for chemical reactions (metabolism, catabolism); transport substances into, around, and out of the body; supply energy for growth and maintenance; and provide palatability.

The cat is an obligate (strict) carnivore whose natural diet – small mammals and birds – is high in protein and fat, and low in carbohydrate (CHO). The feline gastrointestinal tract, digestive mechanisms and metabolic processes are designed to accommodate this type of diet. And, unlike most other mammals, the cat’s total energy requirements and daily food intake do not decline with age.

In addition to using protein for structural and synthetic purposes, cats are metabolically adapted to use protein and fat preferentially as energy sources and, in fact, generate glucose from amino acids derived from protein. This explains in part why the cat has protein requirements several times greater than those of dogs and most other omnivorous mammals.

Compared to other species, cats require increased amounts of several specific amino acids, most notably taurine, which is essential for vision, cardiac muscle function, and proper function of the nervous, reproductive and immune systems.

Cats also have unique vitamin requirements, especially for increased amounts of several B vitamins, particularly thiamin (B1), niacin, pyridoxine(B6), cobalamine (B12).

The cat has no known requirement for CHO (sugars, starches, fiber), which is handled very poorly by the cat’s digestive and metabolic machinery. In fact, high amounts of dietary CHO can compromise protein digestibility and have other untoward effects.

Here is a sample of diet-related diseases, most of which can be attributed to high levels of CHO:
• Dental and periodontal disease (dental tartar, gingivitis, possibly enamel resorptive lesions)
• Hair balls
• Constipation
• Obesity
• Diabetes mellitus (especially due to the toxic effects of hyperglycemia on the pancreatic islet cells, responsible for insulin production)
• Feline lower urinary tract disease (FLUTD or FUS)
• Pancreatitis
• Hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver syndrome, a very serious and often fatal disease if left untreated)
• Heart disease
• Hyperthyroidism (also linked with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and may be immune-mediated)
• Food-related, immune-mediated hypersensitivities, including pruritic (severely itchy) skin conditions and inflammatory bowel disease

These problems are epidemic in Canada and the United States, but less prevalent in other developed areas of the world, where cats are fed meat and canned food and allowed to supplement their diets by catching their own dinner. So, these are "lifestyle diseases" – our lifestyle, which we impose on our pets by demanding convenience in feeding.

Thus, to provide your favorite feline with optimal nutrition, a diet high in protein, moderate in fat, with very low or no carbohydrate, and balanced for feline vitamin and mineral requirements is recommended.

An excellent overview of this topic is Debra L. Zoran’s "The carnivore connection to nutrition in cats" in the December 1, 2002 issue of the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association (JAVMA 2002; 221: 1559-1567).


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#951 - 08/12/09 06:10 AM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
Paddy Offline


Registered: 08/08/09
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Grelber, are you familiar with this site?

http://www.catinfo.org/

She's very anti any dry food. What is your take on that? There are dry foods that are grain-free and much higher in protein than the corn-filled garbage that Purina, Eukabana et al try to tell us is "good" for our cats, but she doesn't mention them, I'm assuming because of the lack of water content/potential for chronic low-grade dehydration.

This article recommends only 20% dry food (max) because of concerns about water content or lack thereof.

http://www.cats.com/article/catfeeding/n...s-wet-cat-food/

More here: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whycatsneedcannedfood

And any thoughts on the effectiveness of Hill's t/d dry food for helping to clean teeth? My vet suggested it, but after reading this, I'm having my doubts. My cats think it's an enormous treat...

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=doesdryfoodcleantheteeth


Edited by Paddy (08/12/09 06:20 AM)
_________________________
Mid-2012 15" 2.7Ghz MacBook Pro Retina, 16GB RAM, OS 10.13.1
Late-2014 27" 4Ghz iMac 5K, OS 10.13.1
iPad Pro
iPhone 5

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#955 - 08/12/09 06:41 AM Re: Cat Lore [Re: Paddy]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
I wasn't familiar with Dr Pierson's website. A quick inspection seems to indicate that the advice is OK (but note her disclaimer), but sometimes her rhetoric borders on the 'evangelical'.

I suggest your checking out the following sites:

http://www.netcat.org/links.html

http://www.fabcats.org/

As for Hill's t/d, I am not particularly impressed, but I'm in no position to conduct double-blinded trials. I would think that if such worked for cats, they'd come up with a similar product for humans.
Cats tend not to chew bones, rawhide and such (unlike dogs), so abrasive action of dry foods, including t/d, don't tend to achieve desired results.
I have no problem with using various dry foods as treats, particularly if they're used to achieve desired behaviors (via operant conditioning).

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#976 - 08/12/09 12:06 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
My previous cat loved Royal Canin. But they recently were one of the many involved in the melamine poisoning of many pets. My cat died shortly thereafter of acute kidney failure, but it turned out to be unrelated.

I've recently bough two Ocicat kittens and they are eating science diet kitten on demand, and split a can of Fancy Feaste (aka "kitty cocaine") in the morning and evening. There are a LOT of flavors to choose from, I recommend buying a handful and see what your cat likes, and then just buy flats of it - cats actually do NOT like variety in their foods. Both vets I talked with encouraged me to go this route with dry on demand with limited cans so the cats were getting fully hydrated as they sometimes do not when on only kibble. It's also important to make sure your cat has canned food they like in case they need to go with canned for awhile due to medical reasons, or in case they just plain decide they don't like what they eat regularly and need to change in a hurry, to have something else you already know they like.

I also have them on a Pet Fountain which I highly recommend. It's a great way to encourage cats to drink regularly, all cats love drinking from running water. Get the extra tank on the back or you will be filling it constantly. You can get the water filters from any pet store, they're just aquatic water filters. Don't bother fighting the lid to refill it, just fill it through the hole on the bottom.
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I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

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#998 - 08/12/09 02:24 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: Virtual1]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Somehow, your remark about the Pet Fountain reminded me of the problems one of our two cats (Ringo, the red tabby) had with 'kitty acne'. It turns out he got a bad case of that, according to the vet perhaps due to or exacerbated by the plastic cat food dishes we used.

Changing those to stainless steel combined with Animax (antibiotic/steroid) treatment cured that in the course of a few months. Interestingly, we still use a plastic water dispenser without problems. Of course, not all plastics are the same, particularly in regard to their content of the softeners presumed to be the causal agents of such dermal problems.
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alternaut moderator

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#1208 - 08/16/09 09:25 AM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
While we're at it ...

Those cats who have a protected lifestyle and don't acquire other unpleasant diseases will eventually develop chronic renal failure before going quietly into that good night.
One of the most helpful and informative websites on the subject is the Feline CRF Information Center at http://felinecrf.com/ .

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#1892 - 08/23/09 01:09 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
The Creation of the Cat

On the first day, God created the cat.
On the second day, God created man to serve the cat.
On the third day, God created all the animals of the earth to serve as potential food for the cat.
On the fourth day, God created honest toil so that man could labor for the good of the cat.
On the fifth day, God created the sparkle ball so that the cat might or might not play with it.
On the sixth day, God created veterinary science to keep the cat healthy and the man broke.
On the seventh day, God tried to rest, but He had to scoop the litterbox.
_________________________
That must be wonderful; I have no idea what it means.
— Molière

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#3240 - 09/07/09 02:14 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Baking cookies with your cat !

1. Look in cookbook for cookie recipe.
2. Get cup of coffee.
3. Get cat off of cookbook.
4. Find that special recipe.
5. Get cat's nose out of coffee mug.
6. Go to fridge and get eggs.
7. Get dry ingredients from cupboard.
8. Break eggs in small bowl.
9. Sift dry ingredients in large bowl.
10. Answer the phone.
11. Cat ate eggs; get more from fridge.
12. Get cat out of flour bowl and dust cat off.
13. Get Band-Aids for scratches on hands.
14. Throw flour out and get more.
15. Preheat oven for cookies.
16. Looking at cat and wanting to bake cat now. Cat runs for cover into bathroom.
17. Flour the counter to roll out cookie dough.
18. Big crash in bathroom; run to see what happened.
19. Cat has TP all over floor; stuff spilled and knocked over on top of bathroom counter.
20. Yell at cat. Cat falls in toilet bowl.
21. Can sense cat is angry.
22. Take cat out of toilet to dry cat off.
23. Get bandages to cover more scratches on arms and legs.
24. Cleanup bathroom.
25. Hear a thump in kitchen ... now what?
26. Get cat off floured counter in kitchen.
27. Try to pick out cat hairs from flour.
28. Step on cat's tail and get bitten.
29. Get coat, car keys, and go to store to buy cookies!!!
30. Turn on TV - give cat remote!


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#3244 - 09/07/09 02:23 PM Re: Cat Lore [Re: grelber]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Cats are also musicians. Visit http://olehgirl.com/?p=2267 and be patient because the sound won't start immediately.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.3, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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