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#28606 - 04/10/14 12:47 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
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#28622 - 04/11/14 09:55 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

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Registered: 08/04/09
Cohen makes an excellent point when he notes that if certain fixes aren't made available for certain OS versions, that doesn't automatically mean these unsupported versions remain vulnerable for the flaws fixed elsewhere, because the flaw may not even apply to them. In this context I'd like to point out that Apple's updaters tend to address many more issues than the one on the 'marquee'. But if that marquee issue doesn't apply to Snowy, as Cohen rightly states, that doesn't automatically mean any of the others won't either, as he also and now somewhat disingenuously implies. Note that his argument doesn't address possible other, unmentioned flaws either. And the critical issue always is (or should be) the existence of unpatched vulnerabilities that in this case do exist.

This point is also made by several security companies, like Sophos. Adam Engst brings it up in his article Apple Support for Snow Leopard Wanes, and specifies (boldface) 'Realistically, if you don’t run Apache or PHP under Snow Leopard, and you maintain safe browsing habits (stick to mainstream sites, don’t download unknown content, and be generally cautious), I think the likelihood of trouble is low.'

But to return to my original post, that was phrased as a question. In that and subsequent posts I didn't so much state that Apple had indeed abandoned Snowy, but suggested that we're inching closer to that. I still think that's the best way to interpret the current situation.
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#28626 - 04/12/14 12:43 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> But to return to my original post, that was phrased as a question. In that and subsequent posts I didn't so much state that Apple had indeed abandoned Snowy, but suggested that we're inching closer to that. I still think that's the best way to interpret the current situation.

I linked to Cohen in response to your question (but I'll debunk his argument that Apple is still selling Snowy by again pointing out that it's probably for the benefit of Leopard and earlier users who must install it to get to the App Store before they can upgrade past it).

As for "inching closer", perhaps, but I think support should be all or nothing, not maybe, and only Apple is qualified to say either "yes" or "no".
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#28630 - 04/12/14 12:55 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
...it's probably for the benefit of Leopard and earlier users who must install it to get to the App Store before they can upgrade past it...

No Macs old enough to have shipped with versions of OS X earlier than 10.6 can be upgraded past 10.7, so that's a pretty specialized class of users: those who have been content thus far to stay with an OS version that's now more than six years old, but who will nonetheless be motivated to jump through the hoops required to upgrade to a three year old OS version they won't be able to advance beyond.
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#28632 - 04/12/14 02:39 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: dkmarsh]
MacManiac Online
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Registered: 08/04/09
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....actually.....my 2009 MacBook, the last one offered with a removable battery, is Mavericks capable - and it came originally with OSX 10.5....and I believe the 2008 iMac is also in that category.
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#28636 - 04/12/14 10:03 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Aside from MacManiac's point, many in your "specialized class of users" may find Lion to be a desirable pre-whatever pit-stop.

The sad part about Apple's continuing to sell Snowy, though, is that it's not a very well-known option, and instead of people taking this route , they're taking this one .

It behooves Apple to sell Snowy for as long as it's pertinent, and kudos to them for doing the right thing.


Edited by artie505 (04/12/14 10:13 PM)
Edit Reason: Rewrite
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#28637 - 04/13/14 05:51 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Quote:
The sad part about Apple's continuing to sell Snowy, though, is that it's not a very well-known option, and instead of people taking this route , they're taking this one.

I guess the disk and the box have become collector's items. How much is my copy of Photoshop 1 worth?

Anyway, my understanding was always that if you bought a newer mac it could not run an older system, only the one it shipped with or newer.

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#28639 - 04/13/14 09:14 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: slolerner]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: slolerner
I guess the disk and the box have become collector's items.

I hope you're right. I have an unopened box, still in the cellophane wrap, System 7.


Edited by ryck (04/13/14 09:14 AM)
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#28644 - 04/13/14 01:17 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: slolerner
I guess the disk and the box have become collector's items. How much is my copy of Photoshop 1 worth?

Anyway, my understanding was always that if you bought a newer mac it could not run an older system, only the one it shipped with or newer.

Not at all... It's just that historically (there's that word, again), Apple would have stopped selling Snowy discs long ago, and other than some savvy folks, people think eBay is their only avenue. (Apple is still selling the discs for the benefit of users who need it to access the App Store to get Lion and later.)

Edit: As a matter of fact, the only way to navigate to the Snowy disc on Apple's Website is to follow the "Upgrade to Mavericks" links.

Generally, a Mac can't run a version of OS X that's more than a tick or so older than the version with which it shipped, but tacit recently reported having bought a new Mac that shipped with Mavericks but could run any version of OS X going back to Snowy.
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#28684 - 04/21/14 10:24 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I've got no idea how significant Apple to disconnect .mac and .me AIM chatting in Snow Leopard is. (Note that a workaround is included.)

Any comments, other than "The noose is tightening"?
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#28691 - 04/22/14 04:38 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Apple releases security updates for OS X but not for Snowy. Looks like it's confirmed that Snowy is no longer supported.
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#28692 - 04/22/14 10:59 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Snowy may be dead, but this latest round of security updates doesn't look like its tombstone; most of the issues enumerated in Security Update 2014-002 don't even affect Lion, so who's to say that Snowy has been ignored by the process?
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#28701 - 04/23/14 07:25 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Snowy may be down but still showing signs of life. Apple fixes FaceTime for 10.6 users
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#28882 - 05/02/14 11:31 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09


Edited by artie505 (05/03/14 12:32 AM)
Edit Reason: Fixed URL
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#28884 - 05/03/14 07:46 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Thanks, Artie. But it looks like even a higher percent was still on XP and Microsoft killed it anyway. Don't know what to think.

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#28891 - 05/03/14 06:12 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: slolerner
Thanks, Artie. But it looks like even a higher percent was still on XP and Microsoft killed it anyway. Don't know what to think.

Follow the money. If it costs more to support an OS than the revenue it brings in no company can afford to support a product long. Maybe if enough of you die hard Snowy fans would get together and pledge to come up with a few hundred thousand support dollars ( more like a few million dollars) a year in subscription fees to support Snowy, Apple would be willing to continue its support for a while longer.
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#28893 - 05/03/14 06:26 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Well, in June 2012, Apple reported at their WWDC that there were 66 million Mac users, and even assuming that the number has remained static, that leaves 11 million current Snowy users.

Hmmm... A buck apiece ought to get Apple's attention. tongue
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#28901 - 05/04/14 10:35 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
It is MUCH less expensive to support Snowy than XP. I am trying to use in-store photo kiosks and they don't work because their processors are XP. Menus in fast food restaurants are having problems because they are XP based. XP is 'embedded' in so many places. Snowy has extremely limited use, mostly just used on desktops, etc. It doesn't have to be adapted over and over again to niche purposes, more code added to expand it's usefulness. Microsoft really did a lot of financial damage to a lot of people by pulling the carpet out from the things that were built on it.

Microsoft stands to gain a lot of business by replacing the foundation of these devises. It's anyone's call, but PR wise, Apple could come out the 'good guy' by letting people continue to use what works for them. The question is whether they will think that way and use Microsoft's bullying to emphasize Apple's accommodation of their users.
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#28904 - 05/05/14 12:08 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> I am trying to use in-store photo kiosks and they don't work because their processors are XP. Menus in fast food restaurants are having problems because they are XP based.

I'm amazed to hear that the announcement of dropped support has had such an impact so quickly; it doesn't seem at all likely. How is it possible?

Yup, Microsoft has hurt so many people, and stands to make so much money as a result, that I'm surprised that Apple hasn't rolled out some sort of product.

And as for Apple playing the "good guy"? I'm not holding my breath. frown (Edit: Ever see either Jobs or what's'isname wearing white?)


Edited by artie505 (05/05/14 12:10 AM)
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#28905 - 05/05/14 01:46 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Yes, companies are having a more difficult time finding suppliers interested in fixing or updating a non-supported system.

I don't think Apple would want to take on this kind of back-end tasking. Their products and not their software gives their stock higher value.

And no, I don't hold my breath. I might suffocate.
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#28906 - 05/05/14 01:57 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> I don't think Apple would want to take on this kind of back-end tasking. Their products and not their software gives their stock higher value.

I was more thinking of this as an opportunity for Apple to get the teeniest of hooks into the PC market...possibly impress so much with software that hardware orders follow.

True, about their products, but what have they done lately? I haven't even run across any rumors.
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#30238 - 06/03/14 10:15 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
_________________________
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#30483 - 07/02/14 10:44 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'm skipping this month's report, because the numbers seem to be out of whack. (By way of example, usage of OS X 10.9 declined significantly, and OS X 10.1, which has never been on the list before other than in "Other", showed greater usage than OS X 10.4.)

I've always wondered how reliable the numbers I've been posting have been, but last month's reported numbers have really got me scratching my head.
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#30500 - 07/07/14 11:00 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
It just occurred to me that "OS X 10.1" is probably the previews of OS X 10.10, but even so, it doesn't seem to account for the drop in Mavericks usage.

Let's see what happens this month.
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#30503 - 07/08/14 02:05 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

I don't think it's so much a[n apparent] drop in Mavericks usage as it is in OS X usage. According to my calculations, OS X 10.10's share of OS X users measured by Net Market Share actually went up from 56.2% to 58.8% between May and June.

As for the overall figures, in the few years that I've been seeing the Net Market Share numbers, this kind of retrograde motion hasn't been uncommon.
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Moderator:  alternaut, cyn