Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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OP
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Aargh!!! I can see how they acquire pretty much all of their data, but Social Security Numbers? Can anybody explain how they harvest SSNs other than as a result of gross consumer negligence?
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Yes. Gross institutional negligence.
dkmarsh—member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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OP
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Below the 49th virtually every time you turn around you give some third party your SSN. Medicare/Medicaid, most other medical insurance, etc use the SSN as their ID number. I wouldn't be surprised if your local public library requested it when you applied for a card. And of course any bank or credit reporting agency throws it about without regard for privacy.
(Just so you know, north of the 49th the equivalent to the SSN is usually guarded and is certainly not used for the purposes indicated above. In fact, it is illegal for any agency to demand that number unless it is required for tax reporting purposes — ie, bank accounts, paid employment, and the like.)
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Last edited by joemikeb; 05/28/14 08:11 PM.
If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
— Albert Einstein
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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OP
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Once the info is out there (resident in one or more of the 9 companies, for example), it's "ball game". The fat lady has sung, and all your laundry is hanging on the line for all to see and exploit. Now are we having fun?! (Three fingers of 100 proof Smirnov should do the trick.)
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Yes. Gross institutional negligence. Oops, yeah, there is that. Not to minimize the potential, though, I don't recall ever having heard of a security breach that involved SSNs; are you aware of any? (I wonder if the SSA has a contingency plan to change SSNs should the need arise?)
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Valley National Bank once sent me a letter that identified me by my SSN, and when I complained, they told me that it was OK because they disguised the number by leaving out the hyphens. I feel way more at risk from walking around with my Medicare card than I do from Internet villains.
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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dkmarsh—member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Valley National Bank once sent me a letter that identified me by my SSN, and when I complained, they told me that it was OK because they disguised the number by leaving out the hyphens. Correction: It was actually Sovereign Bank.
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Did you know that you can tell where someone was born using the first three digits?
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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"Structure", here, says " Nope". (It also debunks the notion I've always had that the two middle digits had something to do with the year in which a card was issued.) Confusing, to say the least.
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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I'm not sure, it says the first three numbers are where the card was issued (usually where you were born) but I'm not totally clear about what they are saying.
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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I think the defining sentence is Thus, the Area Number does not necessarily represent the State of residence of the applicant regardless of whether the card was issued prior to, or after, 1973. (Emphasis added) It may, but doesn't always.
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Well, it's possible to get a new SSN, but it's far from a panacea, may even be a lousy idea, and is a daunting task. See this SSA doc.
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Actually South of the 49th it is technically illegal to use the SSN as an identification number for anything except income tax and social security. But there are exceptions for the convenience dog the government. Medicare and Medicaid use the SSN+ A or B how secure is that? I assume that you recently got the same notification I got...advising me that a new Medicare card with a unique ID # is in the mail. About time!
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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OP
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...a new Medicare card with a unique ID # is in the mail. And how long will it take before that is totally compromised in one way or another?
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Re: (Just so you know, north of the 49th the equivalent to the SSN is usually guarded and is certainly not used for the purposes indicated above. In fact, it is illegal for any agency to demand that number unless it is required for tax reporting purposes — ie, bank accounts, paid employment, and the like.)
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Actually, there are a couple of INSURANCE companies in Canada (of which I am aware) who use one's S.I.N. for identification purposes (e.g. when submitting claim forms). Thus, not only government agencies above the 49th collect the S.I.N. as ID - whether legal or not legal to do so.
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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...a new Medicare card with a unique ID # is in the mail. And how long will it take before that is totally compromised in one way or another? If their's an old # ---> new # algorithm, about two or three hours. But at least Medicare recipients will no longer have to walk around with their SSNs in their pockets.
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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But at least Medicare recipients will no longer have to walk around with their SSNs in their pockets. No, but for the next year or even longer Medicare recipients will be re-filling out hundreds of pages of the same information at every medical facility they go to to for any reason. I just went to my regular physician this morning for the first time this year and had to fill out the same 10 - 12 pages of information and releases, I filled in at the beginning of last year. Once the new Medicare cards arrive, that will all have to be re-done, probably finished just in time before the whole process has to be repeated for FY 2019. :AAARRRRGGGHHH:
If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
— Albert Einstein
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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I'd take the trade-off even if I went to doctors.
SSNs on Medicare cards has long been a pet peeve of mine, and the fix is WAAAY past due.
But why do you think the new cards will necessitate redoing the forms? Your (my, anyhow) SSN appears only once, on page 1. Do your docs use bound sets?
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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But why do you think the new cards will necessitate redoing the forms? Your (my, anyhow) SSN appears only once, on page 1. Do your docs use bound sets? None of my doctors used bound sets, all have converted all of their records to computer files. But every year I have to fill out the same paper forms and a clerk transcribes the data into their computer.
If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
— Albert Einstein
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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None of my doctors used bound sets, all have converted all of their records to computer files. But every year I have to fill out the same paper forms and a clerk transcribes the data into their computer. You'd think that the update procedure would be computerized by now. The only doctor I see regularly, i.e. annually, is my ophthalmologist, and he's never even asked me to update, let alone redo my paperwork. I dunno... Degree of paranoia, i.e. fear of lawsuits, or (foolish?) lack thereof?
Last edited by artie505; 05/05/18 01:39 AM. Reason: Expand
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Required by Medicare actually.
If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
— Albert Einstein
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Required by Medicare actually. Please don't tell my doctor; I hate filling out those forms.
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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OP
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You guys south of The Great White North really need to lobby for and get a national health care program! Ours may not be the greatest, but I've never had to fill out any forms to get benefits. And though we may be Johnny-come-latelies, 'twould appear that we'll be getting a Pharmacare program in the near future.
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Joined: Aug 2009
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The forms are to protect doctors in the event of lawsuits.
But not to be overlooked, they provide them with your (more or less) complete medical history, so they're mutually beneficial.
Some sort of update schedule really is a good idea, except for the onerous forms.
I don't now why you guys need prescription insurance; your drug prices are ridiculously low already.
Last edited by artie505; 05/05/18 11:34 PM. Reason: More
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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OP
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The forms are to protect doctors in the event of lawsuits. ... they provide them with your (more or less) complete medical history, so they're mutually beneficial. Some sort of update schedule really is a good idea, except for the onerous forms. Our province-wide electronic recording system (eHealth) circumvents the necessity for such. Reports of all medical visits to family physicians, hospitals, referrals to specialists, prescriptions, lab work, diagnostic imaging (such as X-ray, MRI, ultrasound), vaccinations are filed centrally. These then can called up by medical professionals as and when required — without the necessity of having the patient repeatedly filling out forms. So, for example, if I have a recurrent issue with my GIT and require diagnostic and intervention away from home (but within the province), all past history is available to the attending physicians which then might preclude some additional diagnostic testing and acquire effective attention more quickly. I don't now why you guys need prescription insurance; your drug prices are ridiculously low already. Not as much as you might think. And just like below the 49th it's the least able who pay the penalty. We're also a bit behind the rest of the civilized world in trying to arrange drug-purchasing clout. Recently, several provinces have banded together to arrange bulk purchases of many drugs. The national approach would provide even better deals.
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Our province-wide electronic recording system (eHealth) circumvents the necessity for such. Reports of all medical visits to family physicians, hospitals, referrals to specialists, prescriptions, lab work, diagnostic imaging (such as X-ray, MRI, ultrasound), vaccinations are filed centrally. These then can called up by medical professionals as and when required — without the necessity of having the patient repeatedly filling out forms. On our side of the border, a nation wide mandate for computerizing health records was supposed to accomplish the same thing. Unfortunately each practice got to choose the system they want to use which of course created instant database compatibility issues. But even before those could be addressed privacy issues got in the way. Add to that the real fear that employers might tap into that database and use it for hiring, firing, promotion, etc. (driven by the employer's health insurance costs) and HIPA was born. The fact is a national network such as yours is not going to happen until we have single payer health care. We're also a bit behind the rest of the civilized world in trying to arrange drug-purchasing clout. Recently, several provinces have banded together to arrange bulk purchases of many drugs. The national approach would provide even better deals. At least your provinces can negotiate for drug prices. In this country the largest and most influential health care payer, Medicare/Medicaid, is forbidden to negotiate drug prices.
If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
— Albert Einstein
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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At least your provinces can negotiate for drug prices. In this country the largest and most influential health care payer, Medicare/Medicaid, is forbidden to negotiate drug prices. Y'know, there's something just plain CRIMINAL about that!
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Joined: Aug 2009
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I forgot to mention that you can check the status of your new card at New Medicare Card | Medicare.gov.
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Re: " . . . all past history is available to the attending physicians which then might preclude some additional diagnostic testing and acquire effective attention more quickly."
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True for the most part. However, one does have the option to PASSWORD protect their medical info in some cases so that not everyone and his dog has access to one's history. (P.S. I am speaking from BC. Other provinces may have differing policies.)
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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OP
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Your note brings up the tangential point which I forgot to mention: Our single-payer system is federal, funded through income taxes; the federal government then disburses health funds to the provinces which are responsible for health care delivery.
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Technology, thy name is Big Brother. Technology, thy partner's name is Sloth. None of this stuff can exist unless enough people are too lazy to do things for themselves.
ryck
"What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits" The Doobie Brothers
iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2020), 3.8 GHz 8 Core Intel Core i7, 8GB RAM, 2667 MHz DDR4 OS Sonoma 14.4.1 Canon Pixma TR 8520 Printer Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner c/w VueScan software TM on 1TB LaCie USB-C
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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Joined: Aug 2009
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I am not sure why some folks still haven't got it. All this "wonderful" technology comes at a cost and that is privacy. This is the tradeoff . . . if one wants the "conveniences."
I am not suggesting that there shouldn't be mechanisms in place to help protect our privacy. I am just saying that we should not be surprised these days when we find our privacy has been breached in one way or another.
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Re: Big Brother(s), "1984" style
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OP
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Technology, thy partner's name is Sloth. None of this stuff can exist unless enough people are too lazy to do things for themselves. Don't malign the lovely sloth — three-toed ( Bradypus spp) and two-toed ( Choloepus spp). They've got enough worries trying not to go extinct. The terms "lazy" and "crap for brains" pretty much cover the behaviorally descriptive aspect of those who jump on and then get rolled over by the tech bandwagon. Sooner or later they'll pay the piper qua scammer and get exactly what they deserve. Amen.
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