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#28816 - 04/29/14 07:44 AM When is an update not an update?
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Numerous times I run Software Update to see what Apple thinks needs updating on my iMac (running Lion 10.7.5). If I want it, I of course (due to non-broadband Internet access) go to another computer (not mine) and download the desired updates as 'separates' on a USB stick, for later installation.

This has not always been possible, since they do not appear on Apple's Support-Downloads page.
Case in point – this item showed up after running Software Update: Safari 6.1.3 54.4MB

Any idea how to acquire this (without going to a third party)?

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#28824 - 04/29/14 12:55 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Apple
This update can be downloaded and installed using Software Update, or from the Apple Support website. (Emphasis added)

Finding it on the Apple Website is a whole-nother-matter, though.

Edit: But...

Originally Posted By: Intego
Mac users running OS X Lion systems can install the Safari 6.1.3 update by choosing Apple menu > Software Update (if prompted, enter an admin password). For users running OS X Mavericks and OS X Mountain Lion systems, Safari 6.1.3 and Safari 7.0.3 may be obtained from the Mac App Store.

so, who knows?


Edited by artie505 (04/29/14 01:03 PM)
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#28826 - 04/29/14 01:36 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Finding it on the Apple Website is a whole-nother-matter, though.
Edit: But...
Originally Posted By: Intego
Mac users running OS X Lion systems can install the Safari 6.1.3 update by choosing Apple menu > Software Update (if prompted, enter an admin password). For users running OS X Mavericks and OS X Mountain Lion systems, Safari 6.1.3 and Safari 7.0.3 may be obtained from the Mac App Store.

so, who knows?


That's true. BUT it would overwrite Safari 5 which I don't want. I want version 6 as a stand-alone, something Apple doesn't want.

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#28827 - 04/29/14 02:16 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
You're saying that you want Safari 5 and 6 living on your Mac at the same time?

Nope! Up to v 4, /Apps/Safari.app was a complete package, but with the onset of v 5 it ceased to exist in that form, and it now sinks deep hooks into OS X and can no longer exist as a standalone.

It's not just that Apple doesn't want it that way, it's that in it's current format, it can't be that way.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28830 - 04/29/14 04:09 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
You're saying that you want Safari 5 and 6 living on your Mac at the same time?

No, I just wanted to keep v.6 in a folder in case I might want to use it down the road.
My primary browser is Firefox (and Mozilla before that) and I'm more than happy with its features and functioning.

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#28831 - 04/29/14 04:13 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: grelber]
ganbustein Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
BUT it would overwrite Safari 5 which I don't want. I want version 6 as a stand-alone, something Apple doesn't want.

Safari is NEVER stand-alone. When you install Safari, you're also installing the Webkit libraries, which are used throughout the system for any "weblike" drawing. The App Store uses webkit. The help system uses webkit. iTunes uses webkit. The list goes on.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think you want to keep Safari 5 on a system that can run Safari 6? You certainly don't need it.

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#28837 - 04/30/14 01:33 AM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: ganbustein]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: ganbustein
Safari is NEVER stand-alone. When you install Safari, you're also installing the Webkit libraries, which are used throughout the system for any "weblike" drawing. The App Store uses webkit. The help system uses webkit. iTunes uses webkit. The list goes on.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think you want to keep Safari 5 on a system that can run Safari 6? You certainly don't need it.

I must have used the wrong phrasing. All I wanted to do is download Safari 6 as a dmg file and store it away for possible future use. (That's what I meant by stand-alone.) Whenever updates come along, I download the dmg files and run the installations 'manually', mainly due to file size and my not wanting to open the guts of my computer over the Internet.
For example, Firefox just released v.29; I downloaded the 59MB dmg file to a USB drive, and will replace v.28 with it in short order.

I've only used Safari 5 a couple times and I didn't like it.

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#28838 - 04/30/14 02:39 AM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
"Stand-alone" works for what you want, but in the sense that you want it uninstalled, not installed.

And the fact remains that what you want is impossible, because Apple no longer packages Safari as a stand-alone app; it's available only as part of a new OS X installation or, as you've unhappily noted, from Software Update.

(Following up on ganbustein's question, I'll ask why you want to keep Safari 5 when you can run Safari 6, particularly in view of your dislike for v 5?)

Aside: Hmmm... I wonder what you'd wind up with if you ran, say, a Lion installer through Pacifist and extracted Safari to your desktop?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28839 - 04/30/14 05:51 AM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Following up on ganbustein's question, I'll ask why you want to keep Safari 5 when you can run Safari 6, particularly in view of your dislike for v 5?

I just want(ed) it. I like shiny baubles. I don't care.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Aside: Hmmm... I wonder what you'd wind up with if you ran, say, a Lion installer through Pacifist and extracted Safari to your desktop?

I haven't a clue what that all means ... so/but I'm not doing it.

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#28840 - 04/30/14 05:55 AM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: grelber]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Pacifist is an application that can extract individual items from install packages. It is very reliable and worthwhile having, even if you don't use it immediately. This means that you might be able to extract Safari from the Lion installer without having to install Lion.
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OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#28841 - 04/30/14 09:41 AM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: grelber]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Because updating Safari involves updating system files as well as the application itself, it will be a .pkg (package) file, requiring Installer to run if/when you decide you want to install it—rather than a .dmg (disk image) file that can be mounted and from which the application can simply be dragged to the Applications folder—but in any case, here's the working address for the Apple download source, courtesy of MacUpdate:

Safari6.1.3Lion.pkg


Edited by dkmarsh (04/30/14 01:35 PM)
Edit Reason: Corrected Link URL.
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#28843 - 04/30/14 11:49 AM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: dkmarsh]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Jon and DK:
Many thanks for the input. Most appreciated.
But I think I'll just take a pass on all of it (since I can't imagine my ever trying to futz with components of an app installer or use Safari beyond which I've already got).

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#28844 - 04/30/14 01:14 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
The link to Safari 6.1.3 for Lion found on this page is a working link, but the one you posted returns

Originally Posted By: Apple
Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /content/downloads/15/57/031-3445/ufnxrdv2eonlvqoavqx3lvqj4woggy313m/ on this server.

Apache Server at swcdn.apple.com Port 80
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28845 - 04/30/14 01:37 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Thanks. Bad copy editing, now fixed.
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#28847 - 04/30/14 02:48 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Any idea how MacUpdate got the d/l links posted on the page I linked?

They're exceptionally well hidden on Apple's Website, but if anybody can find them, it's you.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28851 - 04/30/14 05:22 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

I don't think they're downloadable from links on Apple's site. Perhaps the URLs are obtained by reverse engineering the Software Update process?

Just for grins, I entered the following command in Terminal (OS X 10.9.2):

softwareupdate --list

Included in the output was

Safari7.0.3Mavericks-7.0.3

I then entered this command:

softwareupdate --download Safari7.0.3Mavericks-7.0.3

and when notified by Terminal that the download was complete, I navigated to /Library/Updates/ and found a folder named 031-3451, which contained Safari7.0.3Mavericks.pkg as well as 031-3451.English.dist and 031-3451.English.extraInfo.

Opening the latter file in TextWrangler revealed a brief xml document which included the following:

<string>http://swcdn.apple.com/content/downloads/15/41/031-3451/fovoxh8xl01wpditg1tngu3wsl6rdg1ypd/Safari7.0.3Mavericks.smd</string>

Noting the resemblance between this URL's structure and those of the Safari 6.1.3 link at MacUpdate, I tried the URL in Safari, and found that if I changed the extension from .smd to .pkg, I was, in fact, able to download Safari7.0.3Mavericks.pkg.

Determining if this "reverse engineering" works for Safari 6.1.3 would, of course, require both experimental zeal and someone running Lion or Mountain Lion... shocked
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#28852 - 04/30/14 05:42 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Great sleuthing!

I'd love to push grelber to dip his toes into Terminal. grin

Edit: It just occurred to me that your success suggests that the same procedure may be useable to d/l, as a standalone, any Apple update that's offered strictly through Software Update.


Edited by artie505 (04/30/14 05:45 PM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28853 - 04/30/14 06:22 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Yes, softwareupdate allows the downloading of updates without installation:

Quote:
Updates downloaded with --download can be subsequently installed with --install... Updates are downloaded to /Library/Updates, but are not designed to be installed by double-clicking the packages...
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#28854 - 04/30/14 06:38 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
grelber's salvation, but only if....

(Thanks for adding in that critical part about --install.)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28855 - 04/30/14 06:48 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Not really.

Since the issue is download speed, the solution requires downloading an update on another machine (and in the case of Safari, 6.1.3 for example, another machine, also running Lion, which hasn't had its version of Safari updated already).

I suppose copying the download from that other machine's /Library/Updates folder to a USB stick, then copying it to the same folder on his own machine, then running softwareupdate --install might work, but then again it might not...
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#28856 - 04/30/14 07:02 PM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> (and in the case of Safari, 6.1.3 for example, another machine, also running Lion, which hasn't had its version of Safari updated already).

Good point.

> ...running softwareupdate --install might work, but then again it might not...

Maybe he'll accommodate our curiosity? tongue
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28857 - 05/01/14 02:06 AM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505

I'd love to push grelber to dip his toes into Terminal. grin
Maybe he'll accommodate our curiosity? tongue

Keep dreamin'. smile crazy

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#28858 - 05/01/14 02:25 AM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Y'know what?

Thinking back on where you were with OS 9, etc. when you began posting, and reflecting on some of your recent posts, I think the time has come for you to stop kicking and screaming and take the plunge.

Yes, Terminal can be dangerous, but you're more likely to do damage by simply emptying your trash than you are to do it with Terminal.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28859 - 05/01/14 02:40 AM Re: When is an update not an update? [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
I appreciate the encouragement, but there are too many piranhas in those waters for me to dip my toe in for a lark.
Maybe someday. Keep a good thought. smirk

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