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#28345 - 03/10/14 01:47 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
If Apple does not support Snow Leopard on my 13" MBP, then what are the vulnerabilities if I am using virus software and not using Safari, what else is vulnerable, Java?
_________________________
Mid 2010 MacBook Pro 13"
2.4GHz, 750GB SATA HD, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.7.5
1 HDX1500 2TB Ext.HD, 2 HDX1500 1TB Ext.HD
HP Laserjet 6MP printing postscript via 10/100 Intel print server
Netgear WN2500RP Range Extender (Ira rocks!)
Linksys WRT1900AC Wireless Router
Brother MFC-9340CDW Color Laser
iPad Air

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#28348 - 03/11/14 01:34 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: slolerner
If Apple does not support Snow Leopard on my 13" MBP, then what are the vulnerabilities if I am using virus software and not using Safari, what else is vulnerable, Java?

  • Trojans — malware that you unwittingly are duped into installing but later versions of OS X have been patched to resist.
  • Java Applets — that run in Safari, Firefox, Chrome, and any other browser that you run. Java applications — are not subject to the same vulnerabilities as the applets.
  • Adobe Flash
  • Viruses and Malware that are written for the Mac — The first thing any decent malware does is either disable any antivirus software are hide itself from the antivirus software. No antivirus software can detect a virus until the virus is known and the antivirus signatures have been updated so the virus can be detected. Of course by then it is often too late.
  • Updated Applications — that are using features, deprecated commands, etc that are not supported by Snow Leopard.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#28355 - 03/12/14 01:49 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
By that logic, Apple should have been sunk in 1992, when it discontinued the still-highly-popular Apple ][ series in favor of the Mac; or in 1994, when the venerable Motorola 680xx processor was abandoned in favor of the PowerPC, orphaning users of software whose developers supported only the newer architecture from then on; or in 2002, when the last OS 9-bootable Macs rolled off the production line, leaving behind a large and often angry population of OS 9 users (*cough*grelber*cough*); or in 2006, when the switch to Intel processors put the Classic environment out to pasture; or with the introduction of Snow Leopard itself, which jettisoned the remaining PPC Mac owners in one fell swoop.

What makes you think the 1 in 5 Mac users still on Snow Leopard constitute a unique class?

I think that unlike any of the events you've enumerated, Apple's apparent treatment of Snowy users rises to the level of abandonment.

(As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is over, 'cause ain't nobody changin' nobody's mind; we can revisit the moment in 10 or 20 years when its impact, if any, has been quantified.)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#28356 - 03/12/14 02:35 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
I have never had reason to criticize Apple support....

I think you misread my post.

Originally Posted By: artie
Coming from you, who's so consistently praised Apple's customer support.... (Emphasis added)

And you'll never hear me complain, either. Apple has given me a new iBook G4 to replace my in-warrantee iBook G3, and two new batteries for my out-of-warrantee MacBook, as well as corrected a shoddy repair job on the MacBook more than two tears after the fact (enabling me to get a better resale price for it).

But all of both our enumerated experiences are hardware, not software, related.

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
If history is any guide then Apple is very definitely on the right track.

If history were a reliable guide, this discussion wouldn't have happened.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#28387 - 03/13/14 04:49 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
For whatever this means, Apple released an update to Epson printer drivers for 10.6 and later.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#28388 - 03/13/14 05:11 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'm not familiar with Apple's printer driver updates, Jon; do they pass on manufacturer releases, or are they Apple releases?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#28390 - 03/13/14 06:02 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
I'm not familiar with Apple's printer driver updates, Jon; do they pass on manufacturer releases, or are they Apple releases?

Apple relies in the printer manufacturer to provide the drivers and then passes them along to the user in the form of updates.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#28391 - 03/13/14 06:06 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks. I suspected that that would be the answer.

(I guess the people at Epson haven't been following this thread. tongue )
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#28394 - 03/14/14 01:51 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: jchuzi]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
For whatever this means, Apple released an update to Epson printer drivers for 10.6 and later.

I gather that yours was just a comment in passing (given artie's signature).

Printer driver updates are usually available directly from manufacturers considerably earlier than Apple's update of same.

I'm not sure whether Apple actually vets the updates and/or tweaks them in some fashion (such as only passing through versions which they continue to support) prior to putting them on the Support-Download site or via Software Update.

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#28395 - 03/14/14 02:54 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: grelber]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Quite some time ago (and it may not have involved Snowy), I had a printing issue with drivers downloaded from Epson. Downloading the driver from Apple solved it. As I recall, Epson never updated the driver so it may have been a tweak from Apple that did it. confused
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#28398 - 03/14/14 07:23 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: jchuzi]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Quite some time ago (and it may not have involved Snowy), I had a printing issue with drivers downloaded from Epson. Downloading the driver from Apple solved it. As I recall, Epson never updated the driver so it may have been a tweak from Apple that did it. confused

Strange. I've had the opposite experience (one-off) with my Lexmark drivers. It must depend on how each company constructs its updates.

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#28399 - 03/14/14 08:24 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Quite some time ago (and it may not have involved Snowy), I had a printing issue with drivers downloaded from Epson. Downloading the driver from Apple solved it. As I recall, Epson never updated the driver so it may have been a tweak from Apple that did it. confused

I was unintentionally misleading in my previous post in this thread. It is true that Apple does not write printer drivers instead relying on outside sources especially the printer manufacturer for that. But at least for several releases of OS X including Leopard and Snow Leopard, Apple used, a combination of Gutenprint (nee. GIMP-Print) and factory drivers for many printers including Epson. So it is entirely possible the driver you downloaded from Apple was an open-source product that never saw the light of day at the Epson factory.

The list of printers supported by Gutenprint is extensive and they still work in Mavericks. Over the years I have often found the Gutenprint drivers to be superior and in some cases offering more features than the factory drivers. The downside is they are strictly printer drivers and offer no support for the scanner, fax, or copier functions of today's multi-function devices.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#28400 - 03/14/14 09:01 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: joemikeb]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
My experience with Gutenprint has not been as successful as yours. I tried the Gutenprint driver that came with Snowy and found that many features were missing. I then downloaded the driver from Epson and all was well.

Note that this is a separate issue from what I posted before. That occurred before I had upgraded to Snowy.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#28403 - 03/14/14 01:47 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: dkmarsh]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Long time, no…. cool

A lot of folks may have resisted the paradigm shifting migration from OS 9 to OS 10 , but this time around, I certainly did something I've never done before. After a week with the pimped up, dumbed down Lion, I actually wiped my disk and reverted to the previous OS. I also quit upgrading my hardware to preserve the status quo. I would have to agree, however, that whatever class that puts me in, it's not a uniquely helpless one. Apple has never given a real damn about what its current users want. They've been relentlessly, and explicitly, focused on acquiring new users from the dawn of OS 10, but I don't think backward compatibility ever even made it onto To-Do List #1.

Whether or not Apple officially discontinues support for Snow Leopard is irrelevant; it will die on the vine, chez moi, with my 2008 Mac Pro. My local Apple authorized repair shop has ceased even servicing my now "vintage" model. In the end, however, even for a diehard Snow Leopard user like me, speed is the ultimate trump card. I'll be plunking down every penny I saved by staying put, when I fork over a fortune for the New! Improved! uniquely expensive Mac Pro -- before I even get to the necessary peripherals. Any interim hit Apple may have taken from my recalcitrance is just a speck of dust on their rear view mirror, and the odds of my switching over to PCs in a fit of pique is just a mote on the windshield.

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#28406 - 03/14/14 03:02 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: JM Hanes]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Quote:
Any interim hit Apple may have taken from my recalcitrance is just a speck of dust on their rear view mirror, and the odds of my switching over to PCs in a fit of pique is just a mote on the windshield.

Check it! There was no good reason for Apple to drop the Appletalk protocol along with the localtalk port except to get rid of all these great old laserwriters. My HP6MP is running just fine with a print server. I just have to put in a new toner cartridge like every two years!
Quote:
Trojans — malware that you unwittingly are duped into installing but later versions of OS X have been patched to resist.
Java Applets — that run in Safari, Firefox, Chrome, and any other browser that you run. Java applications — are not subject to the same vulnerabilities as the applets.
Adobe Flash
Viruses and Malware that are written for the Mac — The first thing any decent malware does is either disable any antivirus software are hide itself from the antivirus software. No antivirus software can detect a virus until the virus is known and the antivirus signatures have been updated so the virus can be detected. Of course by then it is often too late.
Updated Applications — that are using features, deprecated commands, etc that are not supported by Snow Leopard.


I'm running the latest virus software, the latest Firefox, only update Flash and Java. I just can't get into updating all the versions of Adobe and iTunes and every other thing. What about "if I like what I have I can keep it?"


Edited by slolerner (03/14/14 03:17 PM)
Edit Reason: more

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#28408 - 03/14/14 06:04 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: slolerner]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: slolearner
What about "if I like what I have I can keep it?"

No one has said you can't keep it, but you have to accept the fact that it may not be supported and if it ever breaks you are entirely on your own. In the case of iTunes that might mean you could no longer access the iTunes store or perhaps the tunes you have stored in iCloud.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#28423 - 03/15/14 07:45 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
The latest in the "for what it's worth" category: Software Update just offered me Mac App Store Update v 1.0.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#28424 - 03/15/14 07:54 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Yes, me too.

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#28425 - 03/15/14 07:57 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: slolerner]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Looks like it turned up two weeks or so ago (I've seen a post dated March 2nd.); I guess I haven't looked in that long.

(If there's anything on Apple's Website about it, it's pretty well hidden. [Maybe dkmarsh can find it.])
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#28482 - 03/24/14 02:27 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: joemikeb]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Interesting announcement Microsoft is dropping Windows XP support next month abandoning roughly ⅓ of all computer users. So the relatively few Snow Leopard users will no longer have to feel alone and friendless in the computing world. They will have a LOT of company.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#28484 - 03/24/14 02:38 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: joemikeb]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Any company, Apple, Microsoft, GM, whatever, eventually give owners either the carrot or the stick to buy the next great thing.

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#28486 - 03/24/14 04:02 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Interesting announcement Microsoft is dropping Windows XP support next month abandoning roughly ⅓ of all computer users. So the relatively few Snow Leopard users will no longer have to feel alone and friendless in the computing world. They will have a LOT of company.

Well, yeah, but, in all likelihood, not for very long, because unlike Snowy users, XP users will be in fear of their lives and feel compelled to upgrade in short order. (For comparative purposes, I'll track the % in my monthly Snowy report.)

Microsoft doesn't even have to offer the $100 carrot other than as a friendly business practice, because the platform's vulnerability is is enough of a stick to get the beast moving.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#28532 - 04/02/14 11:12 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
The latest stats...

Snowy, perhaps/likely as a result of being ignored by Apple's last round of security updates, took a bit of a hit last month.

Windows XP also took a bit of a hit, but joemike's linked doc tells that "The company will continue to update anti-malware products for Windows XP users through July 14, 2015.", so there may not be an immediate en-masse migration.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#28533 - 04/03/14 04:06 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
...perhaps/likely as a result of being ignored by Apple's last round of security updates...

Another possibility is that the shift reflects a bit of pent-up demand, i.e. Snow Leopard users who had already planned to purchase new Macs or upgrade older ones, but who were waiting for a more stable Mavericks release, which 10.9.2 (theoretically) was. (I say theoretically because I waited for 10.9.2 to upgrade from Mountain Lion for that very reason, and don't have the real-world experience to comment on how stable 10.9.2 might be compared to earlier versions of Mavericks; it certainly isn't what I'd call "flawless" at this point, especially the much beleagured Mail.app.)
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dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#28540 - 04/04/14 07:17 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: dkmarsh]
Douglas Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Seattle, WA
I'm still using SL and waiting for a new Mini to be released then I will go to Mavericks.

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