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#28401 - 03/14/14 11:41 AM Safari - Inert Interactives
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
In the last several iterations of Safari, I have not been able to use the interactive features or play video offerings on a perplexing array of websites -- all of which are fully functional in my Opera browser. It seemed like most of the problems had finally been ironed out last time around, but they've returned with a vengeance (examples below) in the most current version. I'm not crazy about defaulting to Opera, so I'd be grateful for any ideas on how to make Safari play nice.

I have updated to the latest Flash Player, and I've tried simultaneously disabling all my user installed extensions, enabling pop-up windows and website plug-ins, allowing cookies (with no firewall), all to no avail.

OS 10.8.5
Safari 6.1.2 (8537.74.9)
Adobe Media Player 1.8
Adobe Flash Player Install Manager 12.0.0.77
Java 14.6.0



Examples:

I can no longer login to the mvibo website (where I watch epic, episodic, Korean historical sagas, which are great!). It's not that my login info is rejected, I just can't get off the login page at all. Using Opera, even without signing in, I can view the episode & video links for this drama. In Safari, the listings & links don't even show up on the page. All I see is an inert top level header. Does anyone else running the same version of Safari have the same problem?

On some websites where I've regularly posted comments till now, I cannot see the comments at all. On others, I can view existing comments, but cannot access a composing box to add my own.

At several commercial sites, I am unable to place an order, even if I've gotten through the entire set of purchasing info pages.

On a couple sites, my registration appears to go through, but I never receive the necessary confirmation email. I have the same problem with Opera, though, so I'm just mentioning it in case there' a related fix.

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#28405 - 03/14/14 02:57 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Look...it's Comet Hanes!

Quote:
Using Opera, even without signing in, I can view the episode & video links for this drama. In Safari, the listings & links don't even show up on the page. All I see is an inert top level header.

I see the same behavior in Safari 7.0.2, OS X 10.9.2. However, I don't use Flash in Safari, and the movie player embedded in this page requires it, so that may be the explanation in my case. It suggests, though, that the explanation for some of your woes may be Flash-based as well.

What do you see if you go to Safari's Help menu and choose the Installed Plug-Ins item? Apple has on occasion remotely blocked versions of Flash with just-discovered security flaws, and although you updated your version (recently?), it may have become outdated in this fashion. See this Mac Rumors article for more info.

Nice to see you around these parts.
_________________________

dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#28407 - 03/14/14 03:55 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

A more straightforward and comprehensive solution (and therefore, alas, unlikely to be correct, Occam nothwithstanding) requires your Safari -> Preferences -> Security tab -> Allow Plug-ins checkbox to have inadvertently become unchecked.
_________________________

dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#28409 - 03/14/14 06:49 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: dkmarsh]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Hi DK! Hope all's well with you -- and that you're not aging as fast as I seem to be right now!

Alas, poor Occam, "Allow Plug-ins" was already duly checked. I looked at the "Manage Website Settings" option there, but have no clue if (what or how!) there's something to be done with site-specific Flash Player settings, or why they would screw up Safari, but not Opera.

I didn't even realize that I could look up the app. installed plug-ins, so I suppose that's progress of sort. Here's the list:

Google Earth Plug-in
iPhotoPhotocast (iPhoto6)
Microsoft Office Live Update v1.0
QuickTime Plug-in 7.7.1
Shockwave Flash 12.0 r0
Silverlight Plug-in 5.1.10411.0
Wacom Tablet Plug-in

I don't know how Shockwave Flash "12.0 r0" relates to "12.0.0.44" per the site you linked, but I installed the latest Flash Player from the Adobe website earlier today, just to make sure I was completely up to date before posting my query.

I've had erratic problems with embedded videos and commercial transactions in earlier versions of Safari. What's really, really, immensely frustrating is that I never had a problem with the mvibo site or with disappearing comment sections elsewhere, before the newest Safari update. I suddenly feel like I woke up back in OS9 grin ….. without a conflict catcher.

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#28412 - 03/15/14 07:39 AM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I noticed a couple of things in your plugins list that raised at least a caution flag for me. Microsoft Silverlight has been problematic for some users causing a variety of apparently unrelated "glitches". I removed Silverlight long ago and I have never missed it since. You might try dragging it to the desktop and relaunching Safari and see if that makes a difference. If it doesn't you can always drag it back to /Library/Internet Plug-Ins where you got it.

In your first post you mentioned Java 14.6.0. The current release of Java is version 7 update 51. I am wondering if your 14.6.0 might be Javascript and not Java. If it truly is Java the latest version can be downloaded from Oracle. If it is Javascript that could easily be the difference between Safari and Opera because each browser has its own builtin Javascript interpreter. There are several dialects recognized in the Javascript standard and there are subtle differences and even incompatibilities among the various dialects. The two most common dialects are Javascript as implemented in the various Mozilla browsers and JScript the dialect used in Microsoft Internet Explorer. Unless the site developer is very careful it is easy to end up with incompatibilities with one browser or another.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

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#28414 - 03/15/14 01:52 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: joemikeb]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Sorry it took so long to get back -- and apologies for how long this post looks too. Hopefully, it will be a quick scan.

I trashed the Silverlight plugin v5.1.10411.0, as well as the Silverlight folder in MS application support, then repaired permissions and restarted. I'm afraid it didn't help Safari (Opera is still OK), but it sounds like it was probably worth getting rid of it anyway.

I'm one of the rubes who still gets Java & Javascript confused. There isn't a Java Preferences app in my Utilities folder, so I suspect what I've got is probably all Javascript. Here's a list of what I found, though, just in case, along with a couple of Quicktime & Flash Player settings, at the end, in case they're relevant.


Per "Applications" in the "About this Mac" System Report:
Java VisualVM 14.6.0
Java Web Start 14.6.0

Mac HD Library, Java Folder:
Two apparently empty folders labeled "Extensions" and "JavaVirtualMachines"

Mac HD Library, Internet Plug-ins folder:
JavaAppletPlugin.plugin v14.6.0

System Library, Java folder
Extensions: (looks like these are Quicktime installation items?)
libQTJNative.jnlib (Unix Executable File)
MRJToolkit.jar (Java JAR file)
QTJave.zip

System Library, Java folder
Support:
CoreDeploy.bundle 14.5.0
Deploy.bundle 14.5.0

System Library QuickTimejava folder
QuickTimejava.bundle v7.7.1
QuickTime Player.app v10.2



Could QuickTime be part of the problem? The components listed in the System Library QuickTime folder are mostly 7.7.1 (or less). The QuickTime Plugin.plugin is also 7.7.1, but the Quicktime Player application is v10.2

Does QT fight with Flash Player?
The Internet Plug-ins folder also includes:
Flash Player.plugin v12.0.0.77
flashplayer.xpt

Internet Plug-ins (disabled) folder:
I assume this is just a relic. Would it be OK to trash it?
Flash Player.plug-in v10.1.102.64

Adobe's Application Support folder (in the User Library) includes Adobe Media Player, with a "Local Store" folder which includes cache, measurement, settings subfolders. Is that what gets wiped if you choose the "Delete All" option under "Browsing Data and Settings? in the Flash Player preferences pane? Or are Flash and Adobe Media Player different/separate things?

Many, many thanks for giving this a shot! I checked around a bit, and it looks like this is not a unique problem. One guy took his MacBook Air into an Apple shore, where they tested out 6 new machines -- and 4 of them couldn't' even play the videos on Apple's own website. A few folks have apparently had some luck re-setting Safari, but I dread having to slog through filling in passwords all over the web again, if I don't have to.

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#28415 - 03/15/14 02:29 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> ...I dread having to slog through filling in passwords all over the web again, if I don't have to.

I can reset Safari 5.1.10 with the "Remove saved and names and passwords" box unchecked...not quite the whole shebang, but worth a try if your version of Safari allows it.

Edit: And along with that, you could try deleting your AutoFill info (if any) for the particular Website that's giving you trouble.


Edited by artie505 (03/15/14 04:20 PM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28417 - 03/15/14 05:04 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: artie505]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Alas, I am using the newly "updated" version 6.1.2, in which your reset options include:

Clear history
Reset Top Sites
Reset all locations warnings
Reset all website notification warnings
Remove all website data
Clear the Downloads window
Close all Safari windows

This just seems so typical these days. Apple protects the OS from its new class of users by giving you less control over chores that used to be straightforward, and lending you a hand on such incredibly complex operations as…. closing your Safari windows. Jeez. Passwords seem like an obvious keeper, so I end up wondering if Apple just decided to exclude them -- but having to do the reset without knowing for sure. There's no option for simply clearing the cache in Safari's drop down menu anymore either.

The earlier revamp of cookie management drives me crazy too. Grouping them by site is certainly convenient, but not letting you control what kind of cookies you'll allow any specific site to put in place is surely meant to accommodate assorted commercial interests, don't you think? I actually want a site like Netflix to track my viewing history, although maintaining separate cookies for every movie I've ever watched (which I can't even see anymore) seems a bit much, but unless I'm willing to accept any now any kind of cookie they want to paste in my browser, I've got to throw that baby out with the bath water. I wouldn't even be surprised if not letting you resize the tiny cookie window any more and jumping you all over the list every time you delete a couple of sites, is meant to deliberately discourage you from doing it.

Pointless rant, I know, when Big Business & Big Gov have pretty much already won the battle.

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#28418 - 03/15/14 05:48 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I've always been wary of "Remove all website data"; it sounds ominous. But, on the other hand, it is an option in my reset pane along with "Remove saved names and passwords". Maybe somebody can clarify.

I believe that "Empty cache" has moved to the Develop menu in your version of Safari. (I think "Develop" is activated by a checkbox in Safari > Prefs > Advanced.) Edit: Yet another sellout!

Not pointless at all!

Since the introduction of Safari 5 I've felt that Apple intentionally revamped its cookie management to accommodate the bad guys. (I'll note, though, that they left us the same degree of control over cookies that we've always had in Web Inspector [command-option-eye] > Resources, but it's well hidden from the masses.)


Edited by artie505 (03/15/14 05:56 PM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28420 - 03/15/14 06:22 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: artie505]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
I just dipped my toe in the water of the Safari Timeouts thread, where someone also mentioned the developer menu, which I had completely forgotten about. Even if my underlying problem goes unsolved, it will at least give me a quick, hassle-free way to re-open the same windows in Opera and keep on trucking with whatever I was trying to do.

I checked out the Web Inspector, which is cool. Is it safe to delete individual cookies from the listing there, the way I used to do in Safari's preference panel?

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#28421 - 03/15/14 06:25 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: artie505]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
PS - You probably don't want to offer me any encouragement rant-wise, but I'm glad to know that maybe my suspicions aren't entirely beyond the pale. cool

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#28422 - 03/15/14 06:56 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> I checked out the Web Inspector, which is cool. Is it safe to delete individual cookies from the listing there, the way I used to do in Safari's preference panel?

I can't say with certainty, but I use Cookie in that manner and haven't run into any issues, even with Websites for which I've got open windows, as long as I'm careful, like, for instance, not trashing "shopping cart" cookies in the middle of a transaction.

I like Cookie, because it identifies tacking cookies.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28427 - 03/15/14 10:36 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: artie505]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Thanks for the Cookie lead -- I'd much rather entrust the job to a recommended app!

Just to add a little more info to the thread, here's the Flash player status quo on three different machines.

MacPro 2008, no problems.
OS 10.6.8
Safari 5.1.10 (6534.59.10)
Flash Plug-in 12.0.0.44

15" MacBook Pro, no problems. Even though I get a message saying that my outdated Flash plug-in has been blocked, I can still see and play the videos!
OS 10.6.8
Safari 5.1.10 (6534.59.10)
Flash Plug-in v 11.8.800.168

13" MacBook Air This is the one with the problems, even though I went back and completely uninstalled Flash Player, before installing it from scratch again.
OS 10.8.5 (12F4S)
Safari 6.1.2 (8537.74.9)
Flash Plug-in v 12.0.0.77

I'm going scout around for some more info on the password question, but it looks like I'll be going the reset route, regardless. After mucking around with everything else, it doesn't seem like more tweaking is going to do the trick.

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#28428 - 03/16/14 01:28 AM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
My comment about Cookie and tracking cookies was quite incomplete...inadequate, in fact.

In addition to identifying tracking cookies, Cookie's got white-listing, black-listing, and automatic purging capabilities, to name a few; I find it to be a very useful and comforting app even though it has a lot of trouble syncing with ~/Library/Cookies/Cookies.plist in Snowy. (I've been told that it works just fine with Lion and beyond.)

I know joemikeb uses and recommends Cookie Stumbler, so you might take a look at it, too.


Edited by artie505 (03/16/14 01:36 AM)
Edit Reason: Add link & re-write
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28429 - 03/16/14 02:06 AM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I can't help you with your problem, but I will advise you to update all your Macs to the current version of Flash.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#28432 - 03/16/14 11:07 AM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: artie505]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Oddly enough, the MacBook Air, with newest versions of Flash and Safari, (and which shipped with the latest OS) is the worst offender. I'll update the laptop, though, before I hand it off to someone else in the family.

Assuming the tale the guy who tested out new Macs at the Apple Store is true, on top of my own experience, it sure sounds like a Mac software glitch. It's got to be the apex of irony, when Apple, itself, is operating a problematic site.

In any case, if resetting Safari will wipe my passwords, maybe I'll finally get around to changing them into something actually worth using, as I go. That would definitely qualify as a Very Good Thing, even if it doesn't fix the video/transaction failures.

I'll check out Cookie Stumbler too. Thanks.

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#28433 - 03/16/14 12:06 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: artie505]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Maybe I'm just holding my mouth wrong! In an updated excess of irony, I decided it might be a good idea to get a password management app, before resetting my browser -- but when I tried to create an account at MacUpdate, it wouldn't accept my registration on either Safari or Opera! I get stuck in the signup box, where a terse message in red, which reads "undefined," shows up next to the submission box. What does that even mean?

I'm afraid I must have taken up far too much of your time! I'll trundle off to do the reset, and report back.

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#28434 - 03/16/14 01:05 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
"Undefined" is usually a JavaScript error. This hints to me that you have an app or plugin of some sort that's blocking Javascript, maybe an ad blocker or antivirus app?
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#28437 - 03/16/14 05:06 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: tacit]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Thanks, Tacit, disabling AdBlock did the trick.

Fortunately, I did think of disabling my user installed extensions, when I was trying to figure out why I was having such trouble elsewhere! This time I just threw in the towel without further ado.

Nice to see you -- we had some spirited debates many screen names ago, when I was more Lady J than JMH. Hope life's been treating you well.

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#28438 - 03/16/14 06:40 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Life's been...interesting. It's keeping me busy, certainly. I have a book coming out in May, I've been spending a lot of time traveling, and I'm going to be speaking at several conferences over the next few months. smile
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#28442 - 03/17/14 07:07 AM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: tacit]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Busy definitely goes on the plus side of the ledger. Hope you're still driving hot cars. cool

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#28444 - 03/17/14 12:31 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Funny yu should mention that. I'm not; on the spur of the moment, I traded my hot little sports car for a conversion van. Which will come in handy during the book tour.

On the plus side, though, our book tour will take us through the Midwest, and we've been invited to accompany a famed paleontologist on a dig and get a tour of the Very Large Array when we're in the appropriate bits of the country...
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#28447 - 03/17/14 01:49 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: tacit]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Funny you should mention that! On the spur of the moment, my visiting daughter and son-in-law said, "Put your shoes on Mom, we're going to take you shopping for that truck you've been talking about so long." There was a pick-up in my driveway before the sun went down, and I don't know how I got along without it.

Dinosaurs and a Very Large Array? That's like A+ busy. One of my favorite blogs is Starts With a Bang!, although the author has slowed down a bit lately. The more serious math sails right over my head, but it's a fascinating universe, nevertheless. Did you hear about the guys who are rumored to have detected Gravitational Waves ?

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#28451 - 03/17/14 04:14 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
I did! In fact, they made a formal announcement today. Exciting stuff! One of the splendid examples of an observed reality matching a prediction astonishingly well.
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#28454 - 03/19/14 04:26 PM Re: Safari - Inert Interactives [Re: JM Hanes]
JM Hanes Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Well, I reset Safari, eliminated cookies, emptied the cache via the Develop menu, not to mention all the other things I've done, to absolutely no avail. I didn't lose my passwords, or much of anything else that I can see, so I'm not convinced the putative reset ever really took place.

In the meantime, I can add another item to the list of travesties. Safari screws up all over Smugmug, where I'm trying to set up a website for my photos. The problems with running a slideshow are too numerous to mention, and I have a feeling I'm not even seeing some of the option-setting dialogues. The show works fine in Opera, of course, which is where I'm now headed to do the set-up as well.

I guess I'm just stuck waiting for a Safari update (and hoping it's not restricted to Mavericks) or trying to figure out how to reinstall my system software -- on the off chance that that either change might actually make a difference.

Thanks to everybody who lent a hand.

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