An open community 
of Macintosh users,
for Macintosh users.

FineTunedMac Dashboard widget now available! Download Here

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#27719 - 12/19/13 09:15 AM Apple ending Snow Leopard support?
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Computerworld takes the lack of an update for Safari 5.1 earlier this week as a sign that Apple has ended support for Snow Leopard.

Comments, anyone?
_________________________
alternaut moderator

Top
#27720 - 12/19/13 09:48 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: alternaut]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Well, they're still selling it, which would be rather disingenuous if they've officially stopped supporting it.

I note that fully three quarters of Mac users are now said to be running more recent versions of OS X, though, and given the apparent intent to bind OS X and iOS ever more tightly together, and the fact that Apple derives far more revenue from sales of hardware running the latter than hardware running the former, it wouldn't be surprising in the least if Cupertino pitched the Snowy sandbags over the side of the OS balloon.
_________________________

dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

Top
#27722 - 12/19/13 11:52 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
They're probably still selling Snowy for the benefit of users who need to upgrade to get to the App Store, rather than users who actually want to run it.

Snowy's gonna go sooner or later, and it will be interesting to see what percentage of its user base Apple disenfranchises when it does go.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#27723 - 12/19/13 01:17 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
...it will be interesting to see what percentage of its user base Apple disenfranchises when it does go.

I'm not sure how you'll find that out, other than anecdotally.

I imagine Snowy users, like Motorola 680x0 Mac owners facing OS 9, or PowerPC Mac owners facing Snowy, will mostly bite the bullet and buy new hardware, but some will leave the Mac world in disgust, and some will keep on keeping on until their current hardware breaks, not needing the benefits provided by newer hardware and the software it requires/makes possible.
_________________________

dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

Top
#27728 - 12/19/13 10:54 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
Originally Posted By: artie
...it will be interesting to see what percentage of its user base Apple disenfranchises when it does go.

I'm not sure how you'll find that out, other than anecdotally.

Well, NETMARKETSHARE reports and others of its ilk present themselves as accurate, rather than anecdotal, and appear to be accepted as such.

I poked around a bit on netmarketshare.com, and found their stats on OS usage for Nov 2013 and all of 2013.

Edit:
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
...some will keep on keeping on until their current hardware breaks, not needing the benefits provided by newer hardware and the software it requires/makes possible.

Yep, that's me. (Not having to worry about syncing iOS devices is a big saver for me and, I imagine, many others.)


Edited by artie505 (12/19/13 11:04 PM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#27730 - 12/20/13 02:40 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

I guess I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "what percentage of its user base Apple disenfranchises," then. If you mean "what percentage of Snow Leopard users become ex-OS X users when Snow Leopard support is officially dropped," then I don't see how statistics such as those from NetMarketShare can help.

Unless you're thinking that

1. There will be an official announcement;
2. It will be made in such a prominent way as to attract immediate notice;
3. Those Snowy users inclined to change OSes because of an announced policy of non-support, rather than because of the real-world effects of such non-support, will include a significant fraction who change to a non-Mac OS;
4. That fraction will itself include a significant fraction who act immediately, e.g. in time for NetMarketShare to pick up the movement in monthly snapshots;
5. Growth in use of Mavericks will be noticeably less than decline in use of Snowy, making it clear that the latter can't be explained by the former.

If that's how it plays out, I'll eat my hat. laugh
_________________________

dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

Top
#27731 - 12/20/13 02:56 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
What an imagination!

All I'm wondering is what percentage of Snowy users will Apple consider insignificant enough to warrant their dropping support for that percentage of their user base? (I expect that their decision will be based, at least in part, on a projected percentage of that percentage that will be forced to upgrade sooner or later to maintain iOS compatibility.)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#27732 - 12/20/13 06:41 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Personally I don't think Apple's decisions about previous OS version support are much—if at all—influenced by holdout use(rs). As the Computerworld article I linked to opined, those decisions seem to have more to do with how many versions have succeeded the one at issue than with how many users are still using it*. But as new versions appear with increased frequency, the pressure on the about-to-be-dropped oldest one may be more obvious than before, particularly if there's something 'special' about it like Rosetta support in Snowy. Also, support for the oldest supported version may be partial compared to that for more current ones, as evidenced by Apple's response to past malware outbreaks.

And as to 'disenfranchising' users of older tech, I'd like to add that for example PPC Mac users now are dealing with formally obsoleted hardware, the last such Mac (running Leopard at best) having been made about 8 years ago. Their usability continues to diminish, especially regarding the Internet. In that respect, those Macs fully match previous generations. The oldest Intel Macs are following closely behind...

*) Note that the article includes an OS version usage graph for Nov. 2013, uncluttered by non-Mac OSes. You'd need similar usage stats for each of those older versions to document holdout numbers etc. at the time support was dropped, but history seems to support this general idea.
_________________________
alternaut moderator

Top
#27818 - 01/02/14 10:32 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I don't know whether conclusions based on history are appropriate in this instance, because (as I recall) no previous version of OS X has resisted fading away as has Snowy...Apple has never before faced the prospect of disenfranchising as large a portion of its user base as will be affected by their dropping its support in the near future.

I dunno… Maybe they anticipated this taxpayer revolt and decided "Damn the torpedos...", but the free Mavericks upgrade makes me wonder.

At any rate, I think the bottom line is that as long as Snowy can sync iOS devices it'll be considered supported by those in need, and they, and the rest of us recalcitrants, will invoke "Damn the torpedos…" as respects everything else if Apple insists.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#27873 - 01/06/14 09:09 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Updated OS X stats

Snowy continues to be more tenacious than its endangered relatives.


Edited by artie505 (01/07/14 02:11 PM)
Edit Reason: Changed image
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#28098 - 02/03/14 10:00 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#28105 - 02/04/14 05:05 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
I strongly suspect 10.9 is going to turn out to be just as tenacious.
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Top
#28106 - 02/04/14 05:22 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Apple will be in quite a pickle if both OSs simultaneously outlive their pre-ordained useful lives. grin laugh
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#28233 - 02/26/14 02:44 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
As I write this, Apple has not issued a security update to 10.6 although those updates are available for all later OSs. Does this, finally, portend the end of support for 10.6?
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

Top
#28234 - 02/26/14 03:06 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
For whatever reason, Snowy is exempt from the current security scare, as are Lion and Mounty (See here.), and since Apple has already overlooked Snowy once, I don't know that this omission is glaring.

I think iTunes 12 will be telling.



Edited by artie505 (02/26/14 03:16 AM)
Edit Reason: What I meant to say
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#28238 - 02/26/14 08:35 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: artie505
... I don't know that this omission is glaring.

If it looks like it, feels like it and smells like it, it probably is. smirk Consider this: Mac OS X 10.9.2 contains many update items other than the SSL fix, and was delayed at the last minute to include the latter as well. Focusing on that 10.9-specific SSL fix ignores these other 10.9.2 components, several of which also apply to previous OS X versions but were only made available for Lion and Mountain Lion (as Jon noted). Time will tell if a similar security update for Snowy will be pushed out later, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


Edited by alternaut (02/26/14 01:13 PM)
Edit Reason: added specifics
_________________________
alternaut moderator

Top
#28239 - 02/26/14 12:00 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: alternaut]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Software Update saw the iTunes update so I downloaded and installed it. Like you, I'm not holding my breath about the security update.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

Top
#28240 - 02/27/14 08:36 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: jchuzi]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.5, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

Top
#28241 - 02/27/14 01:09 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Well, that's a pain in the nether region.
_________________________
ryck

iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Canon MX710 Printer
Epson Perfection V500 Photo Scanner
Time Machine on 320GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro
Carbon Copy Clone on 500GB OWC Mercury OTG Pro

Top
#28283 - 03/03/14 01:05 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: alternaut
Originally Posted By: artie505
... I don't know that this omission is glaring.

If it looks like it, feels like it and smells like it, it probably is. smirk Consider this: Mac OS X 10.9.2 contains many update items other than the SSL fix, and was delayed at the last minute to include the latter as well. Focusing on that 10.9-specific SSL fix ignores these other 10.9.2 components, several of which also apply to previous OS X versions but were only made available for Lion and Mountain Lion (as Jon noted). Time will tell if a similar security update for Snowy will be pushed out later, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

First, the latest ball-scores, which show that Snowy's user-base now surpasses those of both Lion and Mounty.

We're three versions of OS X and two versions of Safari down the road from Snowy, and that, combined with Apple's infernal secrecy, makes it pretty durn difficult to draw any conclusions about how, if at all, the recent updates relate to it.

Question: What does everybody think Apple would have done had the recent security scare extended back to Snowy? Would they have just laughed at close to 20% of their user-base or seen a need for accommodation?

And in the same vein, do you think Apple would have remained silent if the recent security updates included anything critical to Snowy?

The point I'm trying to make is that everybody is relying on history in a situation in which history is in something of a shambles. (Anybody remember Hari Seldon's appearance in Second Foundation?)

I'll stand pat on my guess that Apple will not have truly dropped support for Snowy until its users can no longer sync their iOS devices without upgrading, and I'll further guess that they're playing the situation by ear, and very close-to-the-vest...committing in neither direction and leaving all options open.

Hmmm... Maybe there's something to be said for their "infernal secrecy"?
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#28311 - 03/04/14 01:39 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
[Question: What does everybody think Apple would have done had the recent security scare extended back to Snowy? Would they have just laughed at close to 20% of their user-base or seen a need for accommodation?

I think Apple would have stuck with their release schedule, which if I understand correctly has moved from an 18 month schedule to a 12 month schedule, and their drop support schedule which pushed Snowy off the end of the queue. Otherwise support costs directly increase tremendously and the development costs increase proportionately as well. Remember too that Apple makes their money selling hardware; Macs, iPhones, and iPads. OS X and iOS are merely the means to an end and not the end in itself. If dropping support for Snowy encourages 20% of Apple's user base to upgrade their hardware then it is a prudent business decision in line with most of the last thirty years of Apple business practice and acumen.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#28324 - 03/09/14 03:01 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
If dropping support for Snowy encourages 20% of Apple's user base to upgrade their hardware then it is a prudent business decision in line with most of the last thirty years of Apple business practice and acumen.

Coming from you, who's so consistently praised Apple's customer support, which has built such a happy, loyal customer base for them, that's a surprising statement, because the policy you're advocating would leave many of those happy, loyal customers feeling like unhappy captives...most assuredly not "a prudent business decision".

Inflexible business plans have sunk many successful businesses, and Apple, its market value notwithstanding, is not exempt from history.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

Top
#28327 - 03/09/14 08:53 AM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

By that logic, Apple should have been sunk in 1992, when it discontinued the still-highly-popular Apple ][ series in favor of the Mac; or in 1994, when the venerable Motorola 680xx processor was abandoned in favor of the PowerPC, orphaning users of software whose developers supported only the newer architecture from then on; or in 2002, when the last OS 9-bootable Macs rolled off the production line, leaving behind a large and often angry population of OS 9 users (*cough*grelber*cough*); or in 2006, when the switch to Intel processors put the Classic environment out to pasture; or with the introduction of Snow Leopard itself, which jettisoned the remaining PPC Mac owners in one fell swoop.

What makes you think the 1 in 5 Mac users still on Snow Leopard constitute a unique class?
_________________________

dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

Top
#28329 - 03/09/14 12:56 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: dkmarsh]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
... leaving behind a large and often angry population of OS 9 users (*cough*grelber*cough*) ...


And I'm still POed. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your POV) most websites are far more OS X friendly and accessible than OS 9 could legitimately claim. At least I entered the fray at Lion time, thus obviating a bunch of other crap ~ discomfiture.

Top
#28330 - 03/09/14 02:28 PM Re: Apple ending Snow Leopard support? [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
Coming from you, who's so consistently praised Apple's customer support, which has built such a happy, loyal customer base for them, that's a surprising statement, because the policy you're advocating would leave many of those happy, loyal customers feeling like unhappy captives…most assuredly not "a prudent business decision".

I have never had reason to criticize Apple support and in fact I have had ample reason to laud the level of support I have received up to and including receiving a brand new top of the line iMac that was a full model later than the one that had been giving me problems. Additionally the results of any number of independent surveys consistently rate Apple's customer support far and above that of the competition. So they must be doing something right.
Originally Posted By: artie505
Inflexible business plans have sunk many successful businesses, and Apple, its market value notwithstanding, is not exempt from history.

If history is any guide then Apple is very definitely on the right track. However, the business model you seem to prefer is out there and you can buy a Dell, HP, or other Windows boxes for less than you will pay for a new Mac.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >

Moderator:  alternaut, cyn