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#27289 - 11/05/13 03:47 AM Thumb drive lost space
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I just tried to partition my Patriot Xporter XT thumb drive, and I found that although Disk Utility shows its capacity as 8.02 GB, I can only create volumes totaling 7.67 GB; it seems to have somehow lost 350 MB of storage space that was heretofore available.

I know that thumb drives can be compromised by writing to the same "blocks" too many times, but even without knowing my drive's parameters I think I can safely say that I'm nowhere near in danger of that.

Is there any explanation for such a loss, and can the drive be trusted?

(I remember the thing giving me fits the last time I partitioned it...not accepting the partition sizes I selected until after any number of tries.)

Thanks.
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#27290 - 11/05/13 05:51 AM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Its capacity is one thing, the usable space another.
If you check your main computer's hard drive you'll note that the 'discrepancy' exists there too. The amount of the discrepancy depends on how it's formatted (or so I'm thinkin').

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#27291 - 11/05/13 09:12 AM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
There is always space consumed by "overhead"; space needed for directories, organizational stuff and "medium bookkeeping".

I don't believe I have ever had a disc or disk that made the specified capacity completely available for use.
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#27295 - 11/05/13 11:13 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: Ira L]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'd love to be able to say that you and grelber are on the mark, but, sorry, nope; you're correct as respects drives in general, but not as respects my specific current circumstances.

First, and as I mentioned in my OP, close to 100% of those missing 350 MB were recognized when I initially partitioned the drive.

And second, here's a comparison of my four storage devices:

1. Internal Toshiba:                    500.11 GB        Total capacity
                                                 499.37             Capacity of 4 partitions
                                                    0.74              Overhead = 0.15%

2. External WD Scorpion Blue:     500.11 GB         Total capacity
                                                 499.77              Capacity of 2 partitions
                                                     0.34              Overhead = 0.07%

3. Sony thumb drive:        1,002,438,656 Bytes     Total capacity
                                       1,002,397,696             Capacity of 1 partition (Exact same for 2)
                                                  40,960              Overhead = 0.004%

4. Patriot Xporter XT thumb drive:  8.02 GB         Total capacity (*)
                                                     7.54              Capacity of 2 partitions (7.67 last night)
                                                     0.48              Overhead = 6.0%

(*) During the partitioning process, DU showed that 8.02 GB was available but delivered 7.67 for 1 partition, 7.54 for 2, and 7.41 for 3 (at which point I quit trying).

The Patriot's overhead % is clearly disproportionate, and it could not have supported its high price, would not have garnered its excellent reviews, if that % were default. (Edit: It would never have been marketed if its default overhead % was 6%.)

I'm afraid my expensive drive has morphed into expensive trash…not even a paperweight…too light. frown

(The drive is 4 years 3 months old, but I've got no idea what "normal" life expectancies are.)


Edited by artie505 (11/06/13 01:51 AM)
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#27298 - 11/06/13 07:55 AM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
I'm just curious, did you ever try to format the drive as one partition? Any change then? Also, and perhaps more interestingly, did you check for contents of the drive with a utility like Whatsize, GrandPerspective or some such?

PS, I briefly considered the difference between decimal and digital byte prefixes (GiB vs. GB) and the numerical difference that might cause, but the implied inconsistent use of those prefixes makes that seem unlikely, and besides, the numbers don't match.
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#27305 - 11/06/13 03:40 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
roger Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Vermont
> I'm afraid my expensive drive has morphed into expensive trash

If you're going to throw it out, I'll send you my address. My car stereo reads mp3 files on usb sticks, and I can fit a lot of music on 7.5 Gb… laugh
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#27306 - 11/06/13 03:49 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: roger]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'll wait a bit to see if I get a reassuring response, but if not, it's yours. I simply can't trust it as an emergency/travel boot drive any more.

(Just be sure that your music is backed up. wink )
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#27307 - 11/06/13 06:05 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
It definitely seems that normal partitioning and directory overhead should not consume 350 MB on an 8 GB drive.

Patriot flash drives typically have a 5-year warranty. Have you tried calling tech support?
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#27313 - 11/06/13 10:29 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: tacit
Patriot flash drives typically have a 5-year warranty. Have you tried calling tech support?

Wow! Thanks for bringing that to my attention. cool (I'm shocked to find that I didn't save the drive's warrantee info [although I do have my purchase receipt].)

The successor product to my drive has a five year warrantee, so perhaps mine also does; I'll contact Patriot tech-support and report back.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#27314 - 11/06/13 11:48 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I think
Originally Posted By: artie
During the partitioning process, DU showed that 8.02 GB was available but delivered 7.67 for 1 partition, 7.54 for 2, and 7.41 for 3....

answers your question. (I just duplicated those results and, in addition, found that 4 & 5 partitions --> 7.26 GB, 6 --> 7.14, and 8 & 10 --> 7.80 [Figure that out!].)

DU showed this prior to setting up a single partition and this afterwards. (What does "Size: 7.67 GB/Available space: 2.27 GB" [in the "afterwards" shot] mean?)

Good thought about Grand Perspective! This is what it showed. (What's that 7.14 GB* all about?)

Wow! Confusinger and confusinger!!!

* Edit: I decided to throw DiskWarrior at the drive with absolutely no expectations of its accomplishing anything, and it didn't, but it did return this. Got me beat!


Edited by artie505 (11/07/13 03:57 AM)
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#27319 - 11/07/13 05:04 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Wow! Talk about customer service. smile

I e-mailed Patriot, explained my issue, and linked them to this thread, and I received a response linking me to a low level format/reset tool that could be run only from a Windows-based PC.

I replied that I could not gain access to a PC without putting someone to an immense amount of trouble, and I was linked to and instructed on how to use the Patriot RMA process...28 minutes from start to finish.

Sorry, Roger.
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#27322 - 11/08/13 02:16 AM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
roger Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Vermont
Ah well! laugh

Glad it's sorted for you, Artie. smile
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#27323 - 11/08/13 02:20 AM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: roger]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks, Roger. smile

I really owe it all to tacit for bringing up the 5 year warrantee. (I'm still kicking myself for not having noted it.)
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#27325 - 11/08/13 07:02 AM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Congratulations to you (and tacit) for that 'mission accomplished'!
Originally Posted By: artie505
I received a response linking me to a low level format/reset tool that could be run only from a Windows-based PC. I replied that I could not gain access to a PC without putting someone to an immense amount of trouble...

I realize it's moot now, but for future reference (when an RMA might not be forthcoming), how about emulation/virtualization?
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#27326 - 11/08/13 07:44 AM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Uhhh... "emulation/virtualization"? confused
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#27327 - 11/08/13 08:29 AM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Oops! I probably should have added: ...of Windows. blush
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#27333 - 11/08/13 01:13 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Oh...got it!

Well, I think "I don't know anybody who's running parallel systems" answers your question.

Edit: And if you're wondering whether I asked Patriot about it, the answer is "No".


Edited by artie505 (11/08/13 01:15 PM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#27334 - 11/08/13 03:05 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: artie505
And if you're wondering whether I asked Patriot about it, the answer is "No".

Because I was fairly certain you hadn't, I mentioned it for a future occasion where emulation/virtualization would be an alternative. It also helps to know that there are (more or less) free options.
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#27371 - 11/12/13 01:16 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Patriot Tech-Support
Based on testing and customer feedback, the format tool does not work on Macs running Windows environments.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#27373 - 11/12/13 02:52 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks for the update. With hindsight, I vaguely recall other Windows issues like this with emulation/virtualization. That said, and while your post implies the answer, I'm curious to know if that applies to Bootcamp too: was there any explicit mention of that?
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#27374 - 11/12/13 04:53 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
My quote is the entire text of the e-mail...a direct response to my question, i.e. "...I'd like to be clear about whether that EXCLUDES Macs running Windows environments". (If not asking specifically about Bootcamp made my question incomplete, I'll ask again.)
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#27375 - 11/12/13 05:05 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Thanks, but it's not worth the effort, given the specificity of the issue. As I said, I was just curious, it's not as if I'm likely to run into the problem.
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#27376 - 11/12/13 05:37 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I suspect that Patriot's response is all-inclusive; there's no reason to not mention an exception, particularly one that could save them money.

As it turns out, the important part of this thread was tacit's mention of Patriot's (I think it's unusual.) 5 year warrantee.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#27377 - 11/12/13 07:12 PM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: alternaut]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Most likely, it would work in BootCamp, because in BootCamp yu're basically running a high-end Ultrabook or desktop as far as the operating system is concerned.

I would expect it to work in BootCamp but not Parallels (or some other VM). In a VM, the hardware is abstracted; when a program tries to do low-level device/hardware stuff, it's not aware that the VM is in the way. If their tool does low-level hardware I/O, which it likely does, it would almost certainly not work in a VM environment, even if it did work in BootCamp.
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#27380 - 11/13/13 06:25 AM Re: Thumb drive lost space [Re: tacit]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Your thoughts pretty much describe why I asked Artie for confirmation about Bootcamp. Still, the issue is rather academic to me, as I'm not likely to find myself in a position in which I might have to resort to the option.
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