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#20628 - 02/14/12 06:53 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: dkmarsh]
alternaut Offline

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Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

Hmm...maybe you guys need to search a little harder: Kopi Luwak Coffee. wink

Maybe, but it won't work if D&D says they don't know any such item when searching their site: yesterday neither 'kopi luwak' nor 'kopi-luwak' returned any hits. Now the former does. Are they following this thread? tongue
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#20629 - 02/14/12 08:08 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
....let us know how it tastes; I pass.

You and me both....the whole idea raises the same question as licking toads to get high. What would have possessed anyone to try it in the first place?

Oh. no, wait.....maybe the answer to the second event comes from the first. The original person who tried coffee made from beans that spewed from a cat's butt had first licked a toad. laugh


Edited by ryck (02/14/12 08:08 AM)
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#20630 - 02/14/12 08:32 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: ryck]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
That reminds me of the saying that the bravest person in the world was the first one to try milk. He looked at a cow and said, "I think I'll squeeze one of those things and drink whatever comes out." Afterwards, he found that it enhanced the taste of Kopi Luwak. tongue
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#20638 - 02/14/12 06:10 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
...the whole idea raises the same question as licking toads to get high. What would have possessed anyone to try it in the first place?

I can't imagine anybody trying to get high by licking a toad; the effect was probably the accidental discovery of some love-struck princess who thought that a big, sloppy kiss would get her a prince. tongue

On the other hand, though:

Originally Posted By: Wikipedia
Psychoactive toad
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Psychoactive toad is a name used for toads from which psychoactive substances from the family of bufotoxins can be derived. The skin and poison of Bufo alvarius (Colorado River toad or Sonoran Desert toad) contain 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenin. Other species contain only bufotenin. 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenin both belong to the family of hallucinogenic tryptamines. Due to these substances the skin or poison of the toads may produce psychoactive effects when ingested.
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#20639 - 02/15/12 12:23 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
Other species contain only bufotenin.

Due to these substances the skin or poison of the toads may produce psychoactive effects when ingested.

But, does it go well with rye toast? I think I'll stick with a cuppa. wink


Edited by ryck (02/15/12 12:24 AM)
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#20641 - 02/15/12 01:48 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> But, does it go well with rye toast?

I dunno, but maybe I now know why frogs legs were so popular at Nathan's back in the '60s. grin
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#20642 - 02/15/12 04:21 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: ryck]
alternaut Offline

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Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
What would have possessed anyone to try it in the first place?

I'm not saying I'm going to run out and try kopi luwak coffee at the first opportunity (although its provenance doesn't particularly faze me), but to those wondering how this particular way of conditioning coffee beans was discovered I'd like to say that serendipity must have played a large role. There is a very long list of foods and food (preparation) habits that are revolting to many, but that developed quite naturally. Most of this happened a very long time ago, but it's an ongoing process, and one many of us have experienced personally in one way or another.

The people that first tried new things may have done so because they had little choice and didn't want to discard scarce food unless it was clearly unsafe, or because they simply weren't aware of the risks they were taking by eating it or handling it in a particular way. These conditions still exist today. Over time, experience grew and added many foodstuffs and preparation know-how to the local kitchens, albeit that the way there was flanked by many victims of the trial and error variety. Again, nothing especially new.

A (non-exhaustive) list of 'questionable'* foods includes various smelly and moldy cheeeses, fermented beverages of milk, malt, blood and other origins, 'tenderized' and 'pickled' meats and seafood, insects, fungi, all in various states of 'ripeness'. And did I mention cannibalism? Whatever the issue, let's not forget that there is a reason there is no arguing about taste: after al, we all are literally unique, even though we may be quick to relinquish that for 'the greater good'. And we all know the latter suffers from a distinct cultural inertia, as if to balance things out.

Food preparation methods developed equally haphazardly. Even to date several cultures feed their babies foods their mothers chew first. Heating food to make it more digestible and effective likely developed by accident: 'food' remnants partially burned after fires turned out to still be edible. Conversely, once cooking food becomes the norm, the consumption of raw items gains a negative connotation. The mere idea of sushi still shakes many to their cores.

Similarly, there are several plant seeds that require passage through animal digestive systems to sprout, and these include those of edible plants. Agricultural societies would eventually have picked upon this and searched for them, particularly if they were rare and prized. Kopi luwak may have an origin along these lines, but that's only a guess. Besides, 'processed' kopi luwak beans would gradually and automagically reappear by equally natural means, which reduce any residual yukkiness levels. Whatever the details, the general idea should be clear.


*) Obviously, this assessment is rather culturally dependent. The greatest tension between food and 'yukkiness' may be present in the urbanized western world, where the physical distance between food growing/raising and its consumption is perhaps the largest anywhere.
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#26110 - 06/20/13 10:49 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: ryck]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Finally....something positive about coffee and health. Who would have guessed that a study involving a large number of people would determine that coffee and tea actually lower blood pressure?
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#26111 - 06/20/13 01:06 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: ryck]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
That's the "fact du jour". At one time, chocolate was supposed to cause acne (I'm not making this up) and be too fatty to be good. The health food nuts, I mean faddists, I mean people switched to carob as a substitute. Now, chocolate is good for you. I think that people are looking for the magic bullet that gives immortality. Keep looking; you'll never find it.

I have come to the conclusion that all things must be done in moderation, including moderation. I won't give up coffee, tea, wine or the other good things in life even if they are supposed to be "harmful" (at least until next week's latest findings). I'm willing to dispense with an extra three years of life spent in a nursing home.
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#26113 - 06/20/13 04:38 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
I have come to the conclusion that all things must be done in moderation, including moderation. I won't give up coffee, tea, wine or the other good things in life even if they are supposed to be "harmful" (at least until next week's latest findings)
Hard to argue with that....particularly when one considers there must be considerable balance derived from the enjoyment factor. A gentleman I worked for many years ago smoked one cigarette per day for his entire adult life. He had it after supper with a coffee.

He recently passed away in his mid-eighties having had a happy and healthy life until he just ran out of steam.
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#26123 - 06/22/13 07:06 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Actually, I think the reality is more nuanced than that.

It's not about fads or conflicting findings; it's that many things are beneficial in some ways and harmful in others. Biological systems are massively complex, after all.

So it's not surprising that we get studies that say, for instance, that coffee lowers blood pressure but also causes bone demineralization, or that caffeine protects against Parkinson's disease but also has toxic effects on the liver. Few things are entirely good or entirely bad; many things benefit one system but hurt another. There isn't a contradiction there.
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#26128 - 06/23/13 02:26 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: tacit]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
My complaint about these studies is that they are all statistic-based. Of course, there's no other way to do them since individuals can vary greatly in their responses to different foods. Sometimes, if you read the fine print, the study involves so few people that the results are more than questionable. Unfortunately, the news media (including the vaunted NY Times) tend to publish headlines that seem to draw rock-solid conclusions but then, if you read the entire article, you find that the results are tenuous.

Often, a study finds that there are "significant" results. The general public doesn't realize that "significant", in statistics, means that there is less than 5% probability that the results are due to chance. Also, the differences between experimental and control groups can be very slight, even if (mathematically) they are significant.

To quote Mark Twain, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics".
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#26130 - 06/23/13 12:01 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Those are certainly valid complaints, and popular media reporting of science is and always has been a bit rubbish, no doubt.

My point was intended to address the complaint that studies seem to go back and forth, one day saying that coffee is bad for your liver and the next day saying it lowers blood pressure. There's no contradiction between those results; things can have both beneficial and harmful effects on health.
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#26131 - 06/23/13 02:16 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
To quote Mark Twain, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics".
To demonstrate that numbers can be manipulated to support any claim, the best example I recall is: "I can put 50 men and 50 women in a room and argue, quite logically according to the math, that the average person in that room has one breast and one testicle."

If I remember correctly, the author conceded he'd be hard-pressed to find anyone fitting that description.


Edited by ryck (06/23/13 02:17 PM)
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#26135 - 06/24/13 03:55 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
dboh Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
At one time, chocolate was supposed to cause acne (I'm not making this up) and be too fatty to be good.


Yes, my mom used to yell at me about chocolate all the time. Once, when I was in 4th grade, she yelled at me about it affecting my complexion while driving me to school. I had the triumphal last laugh a couple hours later when she came back to take me home because I had measles.

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#26136 - 06/24/13 04:34 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: dboh]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Well, now we know that chocolate causes measles. shocked
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#26137 - 06/24/13 06:47 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
roger Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Well, now we know that chocolate causes measles. shocked


heh
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#26201 - 07/06/13 12:56 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
alternaut Offline

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Registered: 08/04/09
I don't know exactly what sound(s) the various suggested coffeemakers produce while strutting their stuff, but to me at least it's an important part of the experience. So let's add some other sensory modalities to the brew, although the audio alone may suffice... tongue
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#26202 - 07/06/13 01:20 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: alternaut]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I loved it. It made me want to brew and drink a cup. My Technivorm makes nice noises while brewing but I miss the sound of the old percolators. They made lousy coffee, boiling the brewed coffee as it got stronger, but they sounded great.
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