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#24669 - 01/03/13 01:36 PM iPad audio in - USB or mic
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
I started to ask this in another thread but, as it's a little off the original topic, thought it might warrant a new thread.

Scenario 1 and Questions

I record meetings with an Olympus VN-6200PC voice recorder and later attach the recorder to my iMac with USB. The iMac sees the Olympus on the desktop as another drive, and I simply drag the WMA file over. Works great.

However, to make use of the two hour ferry ride home, I would like to move the WMA from the Olympus recorder to the iPad directly. Unfortunately the USB connectors on the recorder and the iPad are both male.

Is it reasonable to think that a female to female USB adapter could be used to join the two male ends and that iTunes on the iPad would then "see" the Olympus?

Or am I taking a chance that something will "blow up" at one end or the other?

Scenario 2 and Questions

If Scenario 1 is just a bad idea, I'd like to consider recording the meetings directly into the iPad using an external microphone.

I have one of the cardioid Apple lapel microphones that used to come with the computers. I don't know the impedance although I assume that Apple hasn't changed the mic input impedance on their machines over the years.

I thought I'd just plug the mic directly into the iPad and record the dialogue with an audio app. However, the mic has a TRS connector and I understand the iPad input is TRRS. Soooooo.....

If I pop the TRS mic into the TRRS iPad mic input, can I expect to "luck out" and connect with the right leads?

If not, will a TRRS to TRS adapter connect to the rights leads going into the iPad?

If either of the above will work, can I expect to keep recording simultaneously while using other applications such as Pages?


Edited by ryck (01/03/13 01:37 PM)
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ryck

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#24672 - 01/03/13 03:30 PM Re: iPad audio in - USB or mic [Re: ryck]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
No. iOS does not directly allow you to access the filesystem on the iPad or on a device connected to the iPad.

There might be a way to connect an iPad adapter and then use some sort of special software to do this; the people who could answer that question would be Olympus. I'm doubtful, though.
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#24674 - 01/03/13 04:13 PM Re: iPad audio in - USB or mic [Re: tacit]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Thanks, I thought the first scenario might be a stretch but.....ever the optimist.

Do you think I might have better luck with the second scenario? In some ways, if it could work, it'd be the best option.
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ryck

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#24698 - 01/06/13 12:07 AM Re: iPad audio in - USB or mic [Re: ryck]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
It seems like it might work. I'd suggest trying it and experimenting.
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#24749 - 01/10/13 10:26 AM Re: iPad audio in - USB or mic [Re: ryck]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
mics are generally either electret or condenser.

a condenser can be considered a reverse speaker. it changes sound waves into AC. it doesn't require another power source. it's unamplified and the amount of signal it creates is relative to its size, so they aren't usually very small. (the audio signal power comes from the energy of the audio striking the diaphragm) Consenser elements are typically 1.5" wide. They are also heavy due to the magnet and iron core in them.

electret on the other hand are powered and have a mini amplifier built into them. this allows them to generate a significant signal with a relatively small receive area. this also makes them sound more tinny because of the smaller element than a condenser. while they provide ac signal back on two wires, the modulation wire requires a bias power to run the onboard amplifier. Electret elements are typically around 3/8" wide and very lightweight.

this makes the two not interchangeable. I'm not familiar with "TRS" or "TRRS" names. I assume one is condenser and the other electret.

The apple mics with the LONG jacks on them were electrets, and I think were basically the only computer mics that weren't condenser. they were approximately useless on newer computers. I think they used them due to their small size.

I don't know which the ipad/iphone use. I'd like to think condenser.

The other option to check out is a usb mic. Several companies make them for the mac, many add two jacks (speaker and mic) and are compatible only with condensers. Those are useful to add mic to older mac minis for example. They added a new sound output and sound input device to the Sounds pref panel. There may be something like that available for iDevices.
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#24750 - 01/10/13 03:29 PM Re: iPad audio in - USB or mic [Re: Virtual1]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
I'm not familiar with "TRS" or "TRRS" names.

Sorry.....I should have been clearer. These are the cable plug end and the iPad mic input, with cable TRS being (Tip, Ring, Sleeve) and iPad TRRS being (Tip, Ring, Ring, Sleeve). I've never understood why the mic had a TRS plug as it's mono which I would expect to be only Tip and Sleeve (i.e. if it was a mic not requiring power like a dynamic).

However, your explanation of Apple always using condenser or electret (which require power) explains why. The Tip is probably the hot side of the audio signal, the Ring is the power and the Sleeve is ground.

Therefore, and just a guess on my part, the TRRS on the iPad is so it can accept a stereo microphone with Tip for Hot left, Ring for Hot Right, Ring for power and Sleeve for common ground.

Which all leaves me wondering about plugging my TRS plug into the iPad's TRRS socket.

The big unknown is whether either my wider mic Ring or my mic Sleeve will touch both the power coming out (on one iPad Ring), and one of the mic inputs (on another iPad Ring) and send the power down that mic input and blow something up.


Edited by ryck (01/10/13 03:30 PM)
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#24752 - 01/11/13 08:04 AM Re: iPad audio in - USB or mic [Re: ryck]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
the additional ring may be for a mono microphone. I've seen earphones with a mic inline with the cord, I assume for use with siri.
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#24753 - 01/11/13 08:19 AM Re: iPad audio in - USB or mic [Re: Virtual1]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
the additional ring may be for a mono microphone.

I think you're right. Since my last post, I have located an adapter that is Male TRRS to two Female TRS, one of which is for a mic input and the other for iPad audio out.

I'm going to do a bit of research to see just what my old Apple mic is - electret or condenser. I'm hoping I have an electret as the adapter specifies the mic input is only for electret (ECM).

This is the microphone if anyone knows the answer.


Edited by ryck (01/11/13 08:31 AM)
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#24754 - 01/11/13 09:51 AM Re: iPad audio in - USB or mic [Re: ryck]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I don't know what your link was supposed to point to, but among the several videos on the page I did not see one about microphones or at least not one I could identify.
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#24755 - 01/11/13 10:29 AM Re: iPad audio in - USB or mic [Re: ryck]
alternaut Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
This is the microphone if anyone knows the answer.

You got an Apple Computer Microphone Model 699-5103-A, which is an omnidirectional electret condenser type. A shrinkwrapped microphone box exactly like the one your video link shows has functioned as a (light) paperweight on my desk space for years. laugh
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#24758 - 01/11/13 03:32 PM Re: iPad audio in - USB or mic [Re: joemikeb]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
I don't know what your link was supposed to point to, but among the several videos on the page I did not see one about microphones or at least not one I could identify.

It's not one of the videos along the right side. It's the video that starts playing.....with the guy unwrapping an old Apple mic.
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ryck

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#24760 - 01/11/13 03:37 PM Re: iPad audio in - USB or mic [Re: alternaut]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: alternaut
You got an Apple Computer Microphone Model 699-5103-A, which is an omnidirectional electret condenser type.

Perfect. Thanks.....that's just what I was hoping to hear. I didn't want to pay for an adapter and then find it wasn't going to work anyway.

Originally Posted By: alternaut
A shrinkwrapped microphone box exactly like the one your video link shows has functioned as a (light) paperweight on my desk space for years. laugh

At least you've been wise enough to keep it in the shrinkwrap. If it ever becomes rare, you're ahead of the game.


Edited by ryck (01/11/13 03:49 PM)
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