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#77 - 08/05/09 12:36 AM "Mac OS X System" Forum sub-divisions?
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Can we expect to see separate forums for Panther, Tiger, Leopard and, eventually, Snow Leopard?

My feeling is that they were invaluable for posters and helpful, at the rock-bottom least, to responders.

Thanks.


Edited by artie505 (08/05/09 01:29 AM)
Edit Reason: Added some emphasis
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#113 - 08/05/09 06:01 AM Re: "Mac OS X System" Forum sub-divisions? [Re: artie505]
cyn Offline

Administrator

Registered: 08/03/09

If traffic warrants we'll open additional forums.
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#437 - 08/07/09 01:27 AM Re: "Mac OS X System" Forum sub-divisions? [Re: cyn]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> If traffic warrants we'll open additional forums.

But that will require either moving a bunch of posts around some day so they and responses to them are in the correct part of the database (re searching) or perpetuating a fragmented database.

And, at any rate, I'm certain...won't even entertain "hope," your "if" is *unjustifiably* pessimistic!
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#456 - 08/07/09 05:30 AM Re: "Mac OS X System" Forum sub-divisions? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

The database won't become "fragmented," because it's built chronologically: each new post is added to the end of the existing stack of posts. This is reflected in the unique number each post is assigned. A "thread" has no discrete existence; it's assembled on the fly out of the database of chronologically stacked posts by reading the information contained in the initial post and going from there.

I think it works like this: each post in a thread is linked to any replies, and to the post to which it is a reply.

So the first post in a thread is, say, #91. Included in that entry is the information that that post begins a thread, and that the thread is located in, say, the Lounge.

When a reply is made—say, post #110—that entry includes the info that post #110 is a reply to post #91, and post #91's entry is updated to include the info that there is a reply to it: post #110. Post #121 is also a reply to post #91; it follows post #110 not because there's any connection between the two, but because it occurred later chronologically. And so on, to the end of the thread.

When the server is asked to return that thread, the software pulls the initial post from the database, since that's how the thread is actually identified—by the number of the initial post. The software notes that post #91 has 2 replies—post #110 and post #121—so it grabs those posts from the database and adds them to the thread. And so on, to the end; the entire thread is "assembled" like beads on a string: the beads aren't "stored" according to which necklace they belong on; they're simply stored in the order they were made.

Now, if cyn decides to move this thread from the Lounge to FineTunedMac Feedback, all that actually changes is that post #91's database entry is changed to reflect its new location. The rest of the thread follows automatically, because the entire thread is assembled on the fly from pointers included within the individual posts, starting with the original post.

Or something like that. laugh
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#575 - 08/07/09 11:20 PM Re: "Mac OS X System" Forum sub-divisions? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> Or something like that.

Thanks for that, dk, but I guess my use of "fragment" wasn't exceptionally clear, so your response doesn't address it.

I was questioning how threads relating to one version of OS X or another will ultimately be associated with their appropriate forums, *when* they are created, so searches can be appropriately directed?

Will all the pre-existing threads be relocated, or will some searches have to be directed to the entire body of OS X forums rather than just the pertinent one?
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#752 - 08/09/09 03:25 PM Re: "Mac OS X System" Forum sub-divisions? [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
My guess, and it is just a guess, is Mac OS X 10.6.x (Snow Leopard) may emerge as a separate forum late next month or early October. Based on the decline in traffic in MFIF's Mac OS X 10.0 - 10.3.9 and Mac OS X 10.4.x forums I expect Mac OS X 10.1 - 10.5.x to remain right where they are in FineTunedMac. If the traffic proportions remain the same it is unlikely the database will have so many entries that it will be cumbersome to the user or burdensome to the system to search. That means nothing will need to be moved, but perhaps an adjustment to the forum name will be needed. and

Of course if we get 15,000 new subscribers next week all running Mac OS X 10.3 and 10.4 and having lots of problems that could all change. cool
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#760 - 08/09/09 05:05 PM Re: "Mac OS X System" Forum sub-divisions? [Re: joemikeb]
Gregg Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Milwaukee, WI (USA)
On other sites, I've seen the topic title used to create "virtual sub-forums". For instance, say the Forum is Macs - Laptops & Desktops. Each topic title identifies not only if the topic is a Laptop or a Desktop, but also which one. So, the titles all start with "iMac" or "Mac Mini" or "MacBook Pro" etc. Since I've never posted in such a forum, I'm not sure if the software they use provides choices that one is compelled to select from before submitting, but I suspect it does because every topic has the identification "attached".

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#788 - 08/10/09 02:39 AM Re: "Mac OS X System" Forum sub-divisions? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> Of course if we get 15,000 new subscribers next week all running Mac OS X 10.3 and 10.4 and having lots of problems that could all change. cool

You know something the rest of us don't, right? wink

> [...] I expect Mac OS X 10.1 - 10.5.x to remain right where they are in FineTunedMac.

I don't have a problem with a "Legacy OSs" forum that includes everything through 10.4, Tiger, but since Apple is obligated to support 10.5, Leopard, as long as there are *any* supported PPC Macs, that OS probably ought to have its own forum.
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#2266 - 08/28/09 06:17 AM "Legacy OS" Forum
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Since this forum has become the "Legacy OS" Forum I'll again suggest that OS X 10.5, Leopard, be excluded from it and given its own forum, because since it will be supported by Apple for as long as there are any supported PPC Macs it will likely draw a considerable number of posts on an ongoing basis, and keeping them separate from posts relating to obsolete OSs seems desirable.


Edited by cyn (08/28/09 05:33 PM)
Edit Reason: New thread merged with existing topic.
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#2277 - 08/28/09 08:08 AM Re: "Legacy OS" Forum [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
since it will be supported by Apple for as long as there are any supported PPC Macs

I am not sure I accept your premise that Apple will provide indefinite support of Leopard or more accurately perhaps at what level will it be supported. But, if there is sufficient traffic to support a third OS forum that would certainly be something to consider. At the moment that does not appear to be the case.

Traffic on the MFIF OS X 1.0 - 10.3.9 and the OS X 10.4.x forums had dropped to the point I was planning to recommend their merger. If that pattern holds here at FTM, the volume of OS X 10.0 -- 10.4.x posts may not even be noticeable among the OS X 10.5.x posts and not worth the additional effort and labor to maintain and moderate. We are trying to keep the structure simple.
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#2289 - 08/28/09 09:53 AM Re: "Legacy OS" Forum [Re: joemikeb]
Gregg Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Milwaukee, WI (USA)
Believe it or not, there are still some folks using OS9. In fact, yesterday, on another forum, I saw a post from one of them!

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#2290 - 08/28/09 10:00 AM Re: "Legacy OS" Forum [Re: Gregg]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Gregg
Believe it or not, there are still some folks using OS9. In fact, yesterday, on another forum, I saw a post from one of them!


I am one such, here:

http://www.finetunedmac.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2081#Post2081

The old G4 on OS9.2.2 is behind me as I type on this iMac. It's a real workhorse and I have nothing but complete respect for it.

The old G4/OS9 does half the work; the iMac OSX does the other half. It works for me!

laugh

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#2292 - 08/28/09 10:06 AM Re: "Legacy OS" Forum [Re: Bensheim]
Gregg Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Milwaukee, WI (USA)
Ah, so I see that ancient Apple OSes are covered in that "Other" Forum. It's hard for me to see the fine print. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it.

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#2361 - 08/29/09 12:05 AM Re: "Legacy OS" Forum [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> I am not sure I accept your premise that Apple will provide indefinite support of Leopard or more accurately perhaps at what level will it be supported.

I didn't say "indefinite;" I said "as long as there are any supported PPC Macs."

How can Apple not offer full continuing support for Leopard when PPC Mac owners can't upgrade to Snow Leopard? (Or does Steve expect every PPC owner to run out and buy a new Intel Mac just to upgrade?)

> Traffic on the MFIF OS X 1.0 - 10.3.9 and the OS X 10.4.x forums had dropped to the point I was planning to recommend their merger. If that pattern holds here at FTM, the volume of OS X 10.0 -- 10.4.x posts may not even be noticeable among the OS X 10.5.x posts and not worth the additional effort and labor to maintain and moderate. We are trying to keep the structure simple.

That works; thanks.
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#2376 - 08/29/09 07:59 AM Re: "Legacy OS" Forum [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
How can Apple not offer full continuing support for Leopard when PPC Mac owners can't upgrade to Snow Leopard?

If by full support you mean continued upgrades 10.5.9, 10.5.10, etc, I think you are dreaming. The cost of maintaining two entirely different OS versions and development teams is simply too high. The release of OS X 10.4.11 after the rollout of OS X 10.5 was an exception because 10.4.11 was near the end of its development cycle and there was very little work remaining to do and the 'fixes" were deemed important. The support for not yet obsolete PPC hardware is dependent on the supply of parts on hand. Apple does not maintain a production line to build new replacement components.

If by full support you mean an occasional security patch or troubleshooting support with no expectation of a code update to fix the problem then yes, that will be provided.
Originally Posted By: artie505
Or does Steve expect every PPC owner to run out and buy a new Intel Mac just to upgrade?

Actually I don't think Steve intends for PPC users to upgrade their OS beyond OS X 10.5.8. The King is dead, long live the King.
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