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#22938 - 08/07/12 12:09 AM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: artie505]
ganbustein Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: artie505
What I was trying to determine is whether purchasers of new Macs, which come with neither install discs nor accompanying App Store d/l's, Rita included, still have the same option by virtue of their recovery partitions after they've upgraded and without regard for Time Machine backups and clones.

That I'm not too sure of. If you purchased it from the App Store (even if through the Up-To-Date program), then you can always re-download the installer. So I assume you're talking about the version that came pre-installed.

The recovery partition will let you re-download "the installer". Trouble is, installing MtLion upgrades the recovery partition so that "the installer" it looks for is for MtLion.

It sure would be nice if it gave you the choice which OS to download and install. Somehow, I doubt it.

Originally Posted By: artie505
And further, I was trying to determine what, if any, steps must be taken to preserve that option, if it still exists, in the face of upgrades.

I think the real answer is: if you want to be able to go back in time, make backups! You can't eat your cake without baking it.

One possible gotcha is that restoring your system back to Lion will not necessarily (in fact, almost certainly will not) also restore you recovery partition back to Lion. I can't see how this would be a problem, but just in case, you could back up your recovery partition and rewrite it.

Rita: this is an advanced topic. Feel free to ignore the rest of this post.

The first step to backing up/restoring a recovery partition is to identify it:
Code:
$ diskutil list
/dev/disk0
   #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
   0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *1.0 TB     disk0
   1:                        EFI                         209.7 MB   disk0s1
   2:                  Apple_HFS Hero                    49.5 GB    disk0s2
   3:                 Apple_Boot Recovery HD             650.0 MB   disk0s3
   4:                  Apple_HFS Norm                    949.2 GB   disk0s4
   5:                 Apple_Boot Recovery HD             650.0 MB   disk0s5

That's sample output for a disk that has two partitions each with (Mt)Lion installed. Each partition with (Mt)Lion installed gets it own recovery partition. Let's focus on the first one, the one whose IDENTIFIER is disk0s3. To back it up, get a root shell (a one-line sudo won't suffice) and duplicate it to a file:
Code:
$ sudo -s
Password:
# dd </dev/disk0s3 >RecoveryForLion
# exit

(The reason you need an actual root shell is that if you try to say
sudo dd </dev/disk0s3 >RecoveryForLion
bash will try to do the redirection first, before invoking sudo. It'll fail, because it does not yet have permission to access the block special device /dev/disk0s3.)

This creates a 650MB file RecoveryForLion (or some other name of your choice) that is a clone of the recovery partition. To restore it later, just reverse the redirection:
Code:
$ sudo -s
Password:
# dd <RecoveryForLion >/dev/disk0s3
# exit

Creating a recovery partition if one does not exist can be done through diskutil, but it's probably less error-prone to let the installer (any installer) create it for you.


Edited by ganbustein (08/07/12 12:11 AM)
Edit Reason: Fixed typo

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#22940 - 08/07/12 01:14 AM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: ganbustein]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Above and beyond the call of duty...many thanks.

> So I assume you're talking about the version that came pre-installed.

Correct.

> The recovery partition will let you re-download "the installer". Trouble is, installing MtLion upgrades the recovery partition so that "the installer" it looks for is for MtLion.

It sure would be nice if it gave you the choice which OS to download and install. Somehow, I doubt it.


Would be nice, wouldn't it, not to mention appropriate. (If your guess is correct, this will mark at least the second time Apple has supported small $ upgraders while forsaking big $$$ purchasers of new Macs.)

Your earlier post in which you mentioned that the "firmware on her (Rita's) computer remembers it came with Lion and therefore carries a license for it" held the hope that maybe that would give the recovery process some direction, but somebody will have to either suffer a catastrophe or be willing to experiment to find out.

> One possible gotcha is that restoring your system back to Lion will not necessarily (in fact, almost certainly will not) also restore you recovery partition back to Lion. I can't see how this would be a problem, but just in case, you could back up your recovery partition and rewrite it.

I assume you mean restoring from a Time Machine backup or clone?

That sounds correct as respects TM, and as for clones, I've done a bit of research, and CCC does deal with recovery partitions while SuperDuper! does not yet have the capability. (No opinions offered.)

Also, Apple's Recovery Disk Assistant seems to be a front end for your commands, but I appreciate your having posted them...learned something new.

But as for "To restore it later, just reverse the redirection:," that applies to overwriting, let's say, a Mt. Lion recovery partition with a Lion partition, not to restoring a partition that has been lost, correct?
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#22954 - 08/07/12 03:52 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: ganbustein]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA

Rita: this is an advanced topic. Feel free to ignore the rest of this post.

Thank you. My eyes were crossing!! crazy

Rita
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#22956 - 08/07/12 04:13 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> iBook G4 [...] (still own)

I just focused on that.

I had the same iBook G4, and when I bought my MacBook I checked eBay and found that it was worth anywhere from $400 - $600, but just as I was getting set to list it my daughter's Mini crapped out and I loaned it to her.

I finally had it back in my hands close to a year later, checked eBay again, and was getting set to list it when a friend announced that he had to rent a portable to facilitate completion of a project...out on loan again.

6 - 8 months later the iBook completed its travels, and eBay told me that it was worth...well, not quite nothing, but not quite something.

I called my daughter, asked whether either her niece or nephew needed a computer, and wound up making a little kid phenomenally happy.

eBay ain't the only answer!
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#22957 - 08/07/12 04:22 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Yeah, I was going to give mine away. That's what I usually do with my old computers. But then my husband reminded me that when I did have it in the shop once, they kept it 3 weeks. And then they really didn't help me much thus, you guys. This time I will at least have a backup. And if it gets really bad (that's why I replaced it), I will just wipe the hard drive and reinstall Tiger and update that. I never sell anything. Always donate. smile

Rita


Originally Posted By: artie505
> iBook G4 [...] (still own)

I just focused on that.

I had the same iBook G4, and when I bought my MacBook I checked eBay and found that it was worth anywhere from $400 - $600, but just as I was getting set to list it my daughter's Mini crapped out and I loaned it to her.

I finally had it back in my hands close to a year later, checked eBay again, and was getting set to list it when a friend announced that he had to rent a portable to facilitate completion of a project...out on loan again.

6 - 8 months later the iBook completed its travels, and eBay told me that it was worth...well, not quite nothing, but not quite something.

I called my daughter, asked whether either her niece or nephew needed a computer, and wound up making a little kid phenomenally happy.

eBay ain't the only answer!
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#23165 - 08/20/12 04:43 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Just adding to the info on Mt. Lion. Others may have stated this, but my computer is running hotter and the battery runs out sooner since adding Mt. Lion. Sorry, I didn't have time to read all the posts.

Rita
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#23167 - 08/20/12 04:53 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
For what it's worth, this and this suggest that your problem is probably not a local one.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#23168 - 08/20/12 05:03 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Hi Artie: smile

Yep. I knew I wasn't the only one. I guess a lot of people have complained to Apple but with no response. frown I remember when I first got my MBP in July how happy I was that it was so cool on the bottom. My iBook was hotter. Now that I've installed Mt. Lion I have to use a lap desk or it's uncomfortable in my lap. Sad.

Rita
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#23169 - 08/20/12 05:30 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Hi, Rita,

Although I haven't read that Apple is even aware of the problem, maybe they're working on it all the same; it's one I hope they'd want to resolve.

On the other hand, though, you've got both your Lion clone and Time Machine, so it looks like it's time to justify all the time and effort you invested in learning about them.

And finally, so much for those who couldn't imagine any reason why you would possibly want to downgrade from Mt. Lion to Lion.

smile
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#23170 - 08/20/12 06:05 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Ha-ha. Yeah. I think I'm putting it off because I like notifications for one, and I'm not in the mood to try to figure out how to boot up from the external drive. I imagine I can look it up, though. Thanks.

Rita


Originally Posted By: artie505
Hi, Rita,

Although I haven't read that Apple is even aware of the problem, maybe they're working on it all the same; it's one I hope they'd want to resolve.

On the other hand, though, you've got both your Lion clone and Time Machine, so it looks like it's time to justify all the time and effort you invested in learning about them.

And finally, so much for those who couldn't imagine any reason why you would possibly want to downgrade from Mt. Lion to Lion.

smile
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#23172 - 08/20/12 06:27 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> ...how to boot up from the external drive.

With your drive plugged in and mounted, restart your MBP with the option key depressed, and you'll be presented with your boot options. (If your HD has the same name on both your boot drive and your clone, the left-most appropriately named icon is most likely to be your boot drive.)

Edit: Depress the option key immediately after you hear the chime.

> "I like notifications"

Huh? confused


Edited by artie505 (08/20/12 06:51 PM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#23173 - 08/20/12 06:50 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
By the way, Rita, I suggest that you call AppleCare, not necessarily to ask for help, but to make sure that Apple is aware of the issue and that you are not alone in experiencing it.

The tech's response will be telling.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#23174 - 08/20/12 08:17 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Oh, that's simple. Thanks.

I take it you don't have Mountain Lion? Notifications is one of the new toys. It notifies you when you get an email by announcing who it's from. It let's you know when you have a calendar alert (which is why I like it. The i-Cal alerts didn't work in Lion very well and I depend on it.) It also notifies you when you have a new RSS feed, and other stuff.

Rita


Originally Posted By: artie505
> ...how to boot up from the external drive.

With your drive plugged in and mounted, restart your MBP with the option key depressed, and you'll be presented with your boot options. (If your HD has the same name on both your boot drive and your clone, the left-most appropriately named icon is most likely to be your boot drive.)

Edit: Depress the option key immediately after you hear the chime.

> "I like notifications"

Huh? confused
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#23177 - 08/20/12 10:44 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> Notifications is one of the new toys.

Oops...forgot about that.

One of the down-sides of not upgrading is that it takes longer to get acquainted with new features than when they're at your fingertips.


Edited by artie505 (08/21/12 01:46 AM)
Edit Reason: Remove editorializing
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#23187 - 08/21/12 06:30 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
>
One of the down-sides of not upgrading is that it takes longer to get acquainted with new features than when they're at your fingertips.

It also makes it a lot harder to take advantage of those new features that you don't have.[
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

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#23189 - 08/21/12 10:04 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
One of the down-sides of not upgrading is that it takes longer to get acquainted with new features than when they're at your fingertips.

It also makes it a lot harder to take advantage of those new features that you don't have.

My perception of what, if any, new features I want to take advantage of transcends Apple's imaginary "reality" as respects what new features I need and governs my decision whether or not to upgrade.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#23237 - 08/26/12 04:41 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
RHV Offline


Registered: 09/19/09
Loc: Winnipeg, Kenora, Palm Springs...
CCC is free if you donated in the past.

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#23238 - 08/26/12 04:57 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: RHV]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
What's CCC?

Rita


Originally Posted By: RHV
CCC is free if you donated in the past.
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#23239 - 08/26/12 05:07 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
CCC is Carbon Copy Cloner.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#23242 - 08/26/12 06:16 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: jchuzi]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Ok. Thanks, Jon.

Rita


Originally Posted By: jchuzi
CCC is Carbon Copy Cloner.
_________________________
MacBook Pro - Sierra 10.12.6, Safari 11.1




iPhone 5s Version 9.3.2 iTunes 12.4.0.119

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#23259 - 08/27/12 03:32 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: RHV]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: RHV
CCC is free if you donated in the past.

But you'd better stash away a copy of ~/Library/Preferences/com.bombich.ccc.plist in case of emergency.

I trashed mine a coupl'a weeks back during the course of troubleshooting a problem, and the next time I launched CCC I was in "trial" mode without a serial number to enter.

I restored my original plist from a backup, and everything reverted to A-OK. (I wonder how a paid upgrade will work if one ever happens?)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#23267 - 08/28/12 12:26 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: artie505]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
I have found that Bombich Software is good and prompt about answering emails in the event your CCC registration is lost. I first paid for CCC about the time it came out of beta, so their automated online system didn't have me in its database for giving paid users a commercial serial number, and they responded to me very quickly when I emailed them.
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#23268 - 08/28/12 05:04 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I made my donation a bit more than two years ago, and if I received any acknowledgement - the only record I've got is a copy of my PayPal statement - it was no more than instructions about turning off the advertisements, so I'm not sure what serial # you're referring to.

My impression is that Bombich first began issuing serial #s when CCC changed from donationware to $39.95 shareware, and that was pretty recently.

Edit 1: And Mike Bombich is so cool that the instructions for turning off the ads was readily available on his Web site even to non-contributors. smile

Edit 2: This is somewhat helpful, but I'm no less confused about whether I should or shouldn't have a serial #; next stop, e-mail.

Edit 3: While searching, I ran across this:

Originally Posted By: Carbon Copy Cloner OS X - Jag
June16, 2003

Carbon Copy Cloner - OS X - Jaguar
How to create a second Boot drive in OS X.
Shareware utility by Mike Bombich - $5
Mac OS 10.2+ and Mac OS 10.1.2 thru 10.1.5

So CCC went from shareware to donationware and is now shareware again.

Edit 4: I just realized that I misunderstood your post and that you seem to have been in the same position I'm in, but this may help others in the same position.


Edited by artie505 (08/29/12 03:09 AM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#23280 - 08/30/12 06:24 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Ditto to tacit's quick response. Since I had wisely saved the details of my donation I received my serial number in less than 24 hours (despite the caveat that Mt. Lion was hogging many of the Bombich resources). smile
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