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#22828 - 07/31/12 01:23 PM TM & Clones on Partitioned FW Drive [Re: plantsower]
pbGuy Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I have a TM backup partitioned-volume as well as a Superduper clone partitioned-volume on a FW 800 drive (connected by a FW 800 cable).

I use DU to dismount the clone partition before turning TM On; as result, TM doesn't see the dismounted clone-partition. (I have also deleted the clone partition in the TM prefs - when the clone partition was mounted - so TM does not try using the clone partition.)

I am also careful to turn TM Off before activating Superduper to clone.

(Of course, I then must dismount the clone partition to then, re-activate TM.)

This "procedure" might seem a bit kludgy, but it's just several clicks for steps.

No problems.
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#22830 - 07/31/12 02:13 PM Re: TM & Clones on Partitioned FW Drive [Re: pbGuy]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Is that just your way of doing it, or do I have to do that, also. It's kind of confusing having never done it. Still waiting for my WD external drive.


Rita


Originally Posted By: pbGuy
I have a TM backup partitioned-volume as well as a Superduper clone partitioned-volume on a FW 800 drive (connected by a FW 800 cable).

I use DU to dismount the clone partition before turning TM On; as result, TM doesn't see the dismounted clone-partition. (I have also deleted the clone partition in the TM prefs - when the clone partition was mounted - so TM does not try using the clone partition.)

I am also careful to turn TM Off before activating Superduper to clone.

(Of course, I then must dismount the clone partition to then, re-activate TM.)

This "procedure" might seem a bit kludgy, but it's just several clicks for steps.

No problems.
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#22831 - 07/31/12 02:21 PM Re: TM & Clones on Partitioned FW Drive [Re: plantsower]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I have separate hard drives for TM and a SD clone. I never turn off TM while cloning, and never thought of it for that matter. FWIW, I'm not having any problems.
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#22832 - 07/31/12 02:32 PM Re: TM & Clones on Partitioned FW Drive [Re: jchuzi]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Hi Jon:

I hope it all works out with me using just one external drive for both TM and SD. I thought I would use SD to clone my current brand new hard drive so that Lion would be easily accessible should I want it back.

Then I will download Mountain Lion and put it on TM and maybe SD, also.

I use very little of my Hard Drive so it shouldn't be a problem. I have a 500 GB HD and a 1 TB external drive (when it comes). I am presently using 16 GB. I will probably download a utility now and then, but that will probably be it. I barely used any of my iBook G4 drive and it was only 60 GB.

So.....?

Rita
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#22842 - 08/01/12 09:52 AM Re: TM & Clones on Partitioned FW Drive [Re: plantsower]
pbGuy Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Is that just your way of doing it, or do I have to do that, also. It's kind of confusing having never done it.


I agree there are several steps; but candidly I'm currently taking them as I just recently (about a month ago from this writing) began using TM.

(Previously, I was doing 3 separate clones. Now, I'm doing 2 clones - on separate physical, FW drives - and the 1 TM backup on a FW drive also having a clone.)

As I had not previously used TM and wasn't that familiar with it other than reading about set-up details, I wanted to make sure I didn't have any issues with the 1 clone being on the same FW drive (albeit, on separate partitions).

Regarding turning TM Off before doing a clone, I read somewhere a long time ago it was a good idea to do it, safeguarding against TM activating during a cloning; so, as a precaution, I turn TM Off (and then, reactivate after cloning).

Here's a possibly, very good reason to have TM Off when cloning... In the event one either boots to a clone (for quick testing) or an actual emergency restore, I wouldn't want the clone to already have TM On in the immediate use of the clone in either situation.

So, my current procedure with TM is very precautionary.
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#22845 - 08/01/12 09:11 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: tacit]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
I read on the SuperDuper website that there will be the option to save a backup as a disk image. What does that mean and what is the advantage or disadvantage for going that way? Thanks.

Rita


Originally Posted By: tacit
SuperDuper and Time Machine work in very different ways.

SuperDuper copies your hard drive over to your new hard drive. Time Machine makes a file on your new hard drive and copies all your data into that. If you use both, you have two separate backups, taking up twice as much space on your hard disk. Your hard disk would have to be, at an absolute minimum, twice as big as the amount of space you are using on your internal disk if you want to use both.
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#22854 - 08/02/12 09:11 AM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
A "disk image" is just a file. When you save a backup as a disk image, it takes all the files on your hard drive and stuffs them inside one big file. There are times when that is an advantage, but for ordinary backups, it's probably not what you want to do.
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#22856 - 08/02/12 09:21 AM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: MG2009]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
so do I need to post the latest version of my wildly popular (at least here) Klone script?
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#22858 - 08/02/12 09:56 AM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: tacit]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Thanks. I'll just leave it has it is (when I finally get my drive!!) and go from there.

Rita


Originally Posted By: tacit
A "disk image" is just a file. When you save a backup as a disk image, it takes all the files on your hard drive and stuffs them inside one big file. There are times when that is an advantage, but for ordinary backups, it's probably not what you want to do.
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#22868 - 08/03/12 06:36 AM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: tacit]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Saving the clone as a disk image works well when you are "cloning" multiple machines to the same hard drive. Each clone ends up in its own distinct separate disk image. Otherwise it would be necessary to partition the backup drive for each machine you are backing up with a clone.

In your case that would not be necessary and might even be counter-productive.
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#22871 - 08/03/12 11:57 AM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
OK, now I've done it. When I ordered my WD external hard drive, I didn't know it had to be mac specific (should have known). The only way I can use it without limitations (according to the literature) is to reformat my hard drive. Well, that means erasing everything.

I think the best thing to do would be to return the drive, get the proper one and in the mean time, partition my hard drive so that I will have a separate place for Mountain Lion so I can download it in the next few days while waiting for the new external drive. Does that make sense? I only have until 8/24/12 to download Mountain Lion for free, and I'm not sure I will receive my new hard drive by then.

Rita


quote=artie505] Time Machine is the app; a Time Capsule is Apple's expensive solution to backing up your Mac with Time Machine. [/quote]
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#22872 - 08/03/12 12:02 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: joemikeb]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
OK, thanks for that. Rita

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Saving the clone as a disk image works well when you are "cloning" multiple machines to the same hard drive. Each clone ends up in its own distinct separate disk image. Otherwise it would be necessary to partition the backup drive for each machine you are backing up with a clone.

In your case that would not be necessary and might even be counter-productive.
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#22874 - 08/03/12 02:00 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
pbGuy Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: plantsower
... When I ordered my WD external hard drive, I didn't know it had to be mac specific (should have known). The only way I can use it without limitations (according to the literature) is to reformat my hard drive. Well, that means erasing everything.


Your quote seems to indicate you think you need to reformat your - my - hard drive, which I take to mean your internal hard drive. ...Do not attempt it unless you already have a clone on another, external FireWire (FW) drive. ...If I've misunderstood and you've already cloned to this new, WD FW drive, try booting to it in order to check whether it works. (Testing should always be done in any event to insure a clone works.) If Startup Disk, in Utilities, allows you to select this external drive, then, it should be working. If not, then simply reformat the external drive (see below).

I believe you've misunderstood the WD drive instructions. If this WD FW drive (out of the box) is pre-formatted for Windows (the box should say), you'll only need to use OS X Disk Utility to reformat, via the Erase tab, for Mac OS Extended (Journaled).

All of WD's drives are Windows/Mac compatible (some are already formatted for Mac out of the box), but if formatted for Windows (out of the box), then, reformatting the external drive must be completed first.

Regarding external drives, when the objective is to use for bootable clones, these drives must be FireWire (FW) drives. (BTW, I recommend using a FW 800 drive with FW 800 cables, if you've got a lot of stuff on your internal drive. FW 800 drives / cables transfer faster.) ...For cloning, the external drive can NOT be a USB drive since USB drives are not bootable.
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#22876 - 08/03/12 02:20 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: pbGuy]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Oh man! No one told me about the USB thing! I have an ethernet port (no cable), a thunderbolt port, (no cable) and two usb 3.0 capable ports along with an SDXC (?) card slot.

I think I got ahold of the wrong instructions. I looked up partitioning a macbook pro and it said if I had an external hard drive that was configured for Windows, I would have to reformat my drive and first wipe it clean. They were using Disk Utility.

So, now I guess i had better return the drive because I don't have the proper FireWire drive.

But, I can still partition my internal drive so I can download Mountain Lion and then, when I get the proper drive, clone Lion and Mountain Lion, right. I'm low tech, so you need to speak in beginner terms.

Rita

Originally Posted By: pbGuy
Originally Posted By: plantsower
... When I ordered my WD external hard drive, I didn't know it had to be mac specific (should have known). The only way I can use it without limitations (according to the literature) is to reformat my hard drive. Well, that means erasing everything.


Your quote seems to indicate you think you need to reformat your - my - hard drive, which I take to mean your internal hard drive. ...Do not attempt it unless you already have a clone on another, external FireWire (FW) drive.

I believe you've misunderstood the WD drive instructions. If the drive (out of the box) is pre-formatted for Windows (the box should say), you'll only need to use OS X Disk Utility to do so.

All of WD's drives are Windows/Mac compatible (some are already formatted for Mac out of the box), but if formatted for Windows (out of the box), then, reformatting the external drive must be completed first.

Regarding external drives, when the objective is to use for bootable clones, these drives must be FireWire (FW) drives. (BTW, I recommend using a FW 800 drive with FW 800 cables, if you've got a lot of stuff on your internal drive. FW 800 drives / cables transfer faster.) ...For cloning, the external drive can NOT be a USB drive since USB drives are not bootable.
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#22877 - 08/03/12 02:30 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
ganbustein Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Oh man! No one told me about the USB thing!

Relax. That was bad advice. Macs have been able to boot off USB for quite some time now. (At least 6 years, maybe more.)

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#22878 - 08/03/12 02:37 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: ganbustein]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Thanks for that. Okay, I am going to plug in my hard drive, get rid of the stuff that's on it as suggested earlier ( hope that's easy), reformat it for the Mac, partition it with DU, and then download Mt. Lion. Crossing my fingers. Man, I wish I had someone here to watch me. frown Rita


Originally Posted By: ganbustein
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Oh man! No one told me about the USB thing!

Relax. That was bad advice. Macs have been able to boot off USB for quite some time now. (At least 6 years, maybe more.)
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#22879 - 08/03/12 02:58 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Ok, so from what I've been reading and watching on YouTube, when I format my external drive to the OS X, I will be completely erasing my internal hard drive. Would that happen if I just got the mac compatible hard drive? I don't want to erase everything. What have I gotten myself into? I just want to clone stuff and use Time Machine as backups.

Rita
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#22880 - 08/03/12 03:24 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Stop everything and make a cup of tea. It's clear that some of the video you've been viewing has made things unclear.

The is FineTunedMac and you will shortly get better advice.

Meanwhile do not instruct anything to erase. Have the tea.


Edited by ryck (08/03/12 03:25 PM)
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#22881 - 08/03/12 03:27 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: ryck]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Good advice. I am freaking out. Maybe they meant the external hard drive would be wiped clean which is fine. But, they just kept saying hard drive. If it's the external hard drive being erased, no problem. I will wait, drink my tea and see what happens. Thank you! smile

Rita


Originally Posted By: ryck
Stop everything and make a cup of tea. It's clear that some of the video you've been viewing has made things unclear.

The is FineTunedMac and you will shortly get better advice.

Meanwhile do not instruct anything to erase. Have the tea.
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#22882 - 08/03/12 03:36 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Ok, so from what I've been reading and watching on YouTube, when I format my external drive to the OS X, I will be completely erasing my internal hard drive. Would that happen if I just got the mac compatible hard drive? I don't want to erase everything. What have I gotten myself into? I just want to clone stuff and use Time Machine as backups.

Rita

That doesn't sound the least bit correct, Rita; unless I'm seriously misunderstanding something, reformatting your external drive wipes it clean and doesn't touch your internal. (How about posting a link to the exact drive you bought, so we can see precisely with what you're dealing.)

And finally, you may not be able to do what you want to do vis-a-vis Lion/Mt. Lion, by which I mean that you may not be able to simply d/l ML, rather you may have to upgrade a Lion installation to get it, and if that's the case, I suggest that you wait for better instructions than I can give you before proceeding, because you wouldn't want to overwrite Lion without having saved a copy first.

Edit: And, by the way, Apple has finally listed its Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter for $29.


Edited by artie505 (08/03/12 03:38 PM)
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#22883 - 08/03/12 03:49 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: artie505]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
Hi Artie:

I guess I freaked too soon. The YouTube I watched talked about it being a brand new laptop do it didn't matter if it was erased. So, I thought it meant the internal hard drive even though they were formatting an external drive from PC to Mac compatible.

Anyway, I was going to backup Lion onto the external drive and then download Mt. Lion to the internal drive from Lion. Then backup Mt. Lion with TM and maybe SuperDuper. Does that make sense?

The drive I bought was Western Digital My Passport 1 TB USB 3.0 Portable Hard Drive - WDBBEP0010BSL-NESN (Silver).

Rita


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Ok, so from what I've been reading and watching on YouTube, when I format my external drive to the OS X, I will be completely erasing my internal hard drive. Would that happen if I just got the mac compatible hard drive? I don't want to erase everything. What have I gotten myself into? I just want to clone stuff and use Time Machine as backups.

Rita

That doesn't sound the least bit correct, Rita; unless I'm seriously misunderstanding something, reformatting your external drive wipes it clean and doesn't touch your internal. (How about posting a link to the exact drive you bought, so we can see precisely with what you're dealing.)

And finally, you may not be able to do what you want to do vis-a-vis Lion/Mt. Lion, by which I mean that you may not be able to simply d/l ML, rather you may have to upgrade a Lion installation to get it, and if that's the case, I suggest that you wait for better instructions than I can give you before proceeding, because you wouldn't want to overwrite Lion without having saved a copy first.

Edit: And, by the way, Apple has finally listed its Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter for $29.
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#22884 - 08/03/12 05:54 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: pbGuy]
pbGuy Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: pbGuy
Regarding external drives, when the objective is to use for bootable clones, these drives must be FireWire (FW) drives. ...


I stand corrected on my prior statement, in reference to Intel based Macs - which can use either USB or FW for bootable clones. ...Apologies for causing confusion.

PowerPC (G4) based Macs require FW drives, however, for creating a bootable clone.
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#22885 - 08/03/12 08:17 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: pbGuy]
plantsower Offline


Registered: 09/13/09
Loc: Burson, CA
That's okay. You were trying to help. It was taken care of. No problem.

Rita


Originally Posted By: pbGuy
Originally Posted By: pbGuy
Regarding external drives, when the objective is to use for bootable clones, these drives must be FireWire (FW) drives. ...


I stand corrected on my prior statement, in reference to Intel based Macs - which can use either USB or FW for bootable clones. ...Apologies for causing confusion.

PowerPC (G4) based Macs require FW drives, however, for creating a bootable clone.
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#22888 - 08/03/12 11:54 PM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> I have an ethernet port (no cable), a thunderbolt port, (no cable) and two usb 3.0 capable ports along with an SDXC (?) card slot.

According to MacBook Pro 13-inch - Apple Store your MBP also has a FireWire 800 port.
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#22889 - 08/04/12 12:08 AM Re: MOUNTAIN LION [Re: plantsower]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Hi Artie:

I guess I freaked too soon. The YouTube I watched talked about it being a brand new laptop do it didn't matter if it was erased. So, I thought it meant the internal hard drive even though they were formatting an external drive from PC to Mac compatible.

Anyway, I was going to backup Lion onto the external drive and then download Mt. Lion to the internal drive from Lion. Then backup Mt. Lion with TM and maybe SuperDuper. Does that make sense?

The drive I bought was Western Digital My Passport 1 TB USB 3.0 Portable Hard Drive - WDBBEP0010BSL-NESN (Silver).

Rita

Here's the dope on your HD, Rita:

Originally Posted By: Amazon
Compatibility

Formatted NTFS for Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7
Requires reformatting for Mac OS X Leopard or Snow Leopard, or Lion
Note: Compatibility may vary depending on user's hardware configuration and operating system.
(Emphasis added)

The "compatibility" caveat shouldn't affect you, but yes, you must reformat your WD drive, and no, you don't have to erase your internal HD to do it.

As for your backup plan, it sounds OK to me, but I'll kick your question upstairs to posters who are more knowledgeable on the subject, particularly as respects how many and what size partitions you'll need.
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